Double heat sinks

[HonorKnight]

Based on conversations in other threads, apparently tons of people missed this in the mercenary campaign video from March 14th, when it showed Tyler's Atlas II brimming with LosTech. You can see double heat sinks plain as day, "HEATSINK (D)"; they use up 3 critical slots each, and dissipate 6 heat compared to the 3 heat from a regular heat sink.

This is Tyler's comment on the fact that it has a mixed loadout of single and double heat sinks:

Without getting into the Atlas II in the video, I CAN tell you my thoughts on double heat sinks as a future proofing measure:

1. Your engine doesn't get 10 free double heat sinks, because that way is just generally bad design space unless the goal is to make some mechs (or engines) ALWAYS better than others.
2. In turn, that means mixing and matching doubles and singles isn't a bad thing, because at that point it becomes "What can I find, and what do I have the slots/tonnage for?"

So I guess that's only TWO thoughts.

This was Tyler's later comment, getting into Atlas II AS7-D-HT:

The T stands for "Tyler", because I made it. I envision it as not a prototype so much as a one-off production model for an SLDF guardsman who was also a highly placed noble. Kinda how the Pininfarina P4/5 is a Ferrari Enzo but so customized as to really deserve its own designation.

Since LBX-series cannons are a buttload less interesting without ammo switching, and ammo switching would be a tall order for launch, UI wise (since only the 10-X would exist in game, and only on the Atlas II), AND the PGI Atlas we have doesn't support the hardpoint locations the AS7-D-H has (E.G. I can't put an AC on the arm cuz there's no prefab to attach)... I made the HT. Which, in my own little headcannon, is the result of a member of the SLDF hybridizing a standard AS7's weaponry (like the AC20) and the more advanced chassis of an AS7-D-H.

Cuz he wanted the new tech, but the old punch.

 

[Na'Shar]

Still no confirmation that it will be available to players though. Of course, it also does not confirm that it wont be.

 

[MechRaccoon]

Good to hear about not getting 10 free double heat sinks with the engine. If HBS decides to make an expansion or sequel with more Star League-era Mechs and tech, it'll be harder for DHS Mechs to keep fighting without overheating, which will make single heat sink Mechs a bit more competitive.

It might make HBS need to do some more rebalancing further down the road, but this still seems like a step in the right direction.

 

[dulahan]

Frankly, I think it'll help make the SL and Clan mechs act a lot more like they do in the fiction too. I really like this move!

 

[Anarath]

just noticed that this 'Mech is a ton over weight in the current configuration as well.

 

[Adam Steiner]

just noticed that this 'Mech is a ton over weight in the current configuration as well.
View attachment 351427

Dump those superfluous mpls and drop another DHS in the chest you take them from and dump another ton of AC/20 in somewhere. At least that's what I'd do in MWO.

 

[HonorKnight]

just noticed that this 'Mech is a ton over weight in the current configuration as well.
View attachment 351427

Yes, this an image of someone actively editting a 'Mech, hence the revert button being visible. You can see elsewhere in the video the player looking at a damaged Blackjack with the revert button not being visible, then they add something to it and revert becomes visible. Likewise they've added something to this Atlas II (producing that tonnage error with the "T" weight icon and the yellow flag) and this unsaved change would put it over the limit.

Edit: You can also see the save icon changed to "confirm" - which is a strange wording for not being able to save, likely to be rephrased, but the important thing is that the word clearly changed between a valid savable status versus the overweight status.

 

[Anarath]

Yes, this an image of someone actively editting a 'Mech, hence the revert button being visible. You can see elsewhere in the video the player looking at a damaged Blackjack with the revert button not being visible, then they add something to it and revert becomes visible. Likewise they've added something to this Atlas II (producing that tonnage error with the "T" weight icon and the yellow flag)) and this unsaved change would put it over the limit.

okay, I was just thinking late night snacking on Urbies adds a ton to the thighs

 

[Agent.0.Fortune]

Still broke, especially considering the increased critical slots in CT and Legs, and the crit slot reduction on weapons.
At least no extra 10 free HS for ankle-bitters.

 

[Prince of Scars]

Wether we get them or not, I am just glad to see that the DHSs are truly twice as effective.

At least no extra 10 free HS for ankle-bitters.

Yeah, because “ankle-biters” are really an issue.

 

[Agent.0.Fortune]

Wether we get them or not, I am just glad to see that the DHSs are truly twice as effective.
Yeah, because “ankle-biters” are really an issue.

No. Double heat sinks are the issue. Ankle-bitters are a symptom, but a symptom suppressed by the the "no engine DHS". So, not a great solution, but if DHS is unavoidable in this timeline (for 'reasons'), then this is the lesser of evils.

 

[Pachira]

Maybe DHS will be a more later game kind of thing you can get

 

[Prince of Scars]

No. Double heat sinks are the issue. Ankle-bitters are a symptom, but a symptom suppressed by the the "no engine DHS". So, not a great solution, but if DHS is unavoidable in this timeline (for some reason), then this is the less of evils.

Double Heat Sinks are more of an issue in this game than they would be in TT, due to the expanded crtitcal slots. I disagree with their addition (if they actually make it into the game), because (while I do not have the issue with them that some other players do) I backed a 3025 game. However, “ankle-biters” becomes no more of an issue than any other weight class with the addition of DHSs. They just seem like it because most players would rather not deploy them, even if it is to counter another players inclusion of them.

 

[HonorKnight]

Maybe DHS will be a more later game kind of thing you can get

They’re LosTech, meaning no store will ever have them, you at best may stumble upon a couple caches, and will most likely have to zealously protect them (like keeping them only on safer long range ‘Mechs) if you expect to have any intact for the endgame.

 

[Pachira]

They’re LosTech, meaning no store will ever have them, you at best may stumble upon a couple caches, and will most likely have to zealously protect them (like keeping them only on safer long range ‘Mechs) if you expect to have any intact for the endgame.

Mhm, that'd be the balance pretty much. If you lose it, well that's it. No more DHS for you.

 

[Jaidenhaze]

Double Heat Sinks are more of an issue in this game than they would be in TT, due to the expanded crtitcal slots. I disagree with their addition (if they actually make it into the game), because (while I do not have the issue with them that some other players do) I backed a 3025 game. However, “ankle-biters” becomes no more of an issue than any other weight class with the addition of DHSs. They just seem like it because most players would rather not deploy them, even if it is to counter another players inclusion of them.

This is not correct. I quote from sarna:

By the early 31st century, double heat sink technology was on the verge of rediscovery. The Federated Suns had a double heat sink project in its prototype stages by 3022 with individual samples built into operative BattleMechs, and in 3030, towards the end of the Fourth Succession War, the Capellan Confederation already fielded their BJ-3 Blackjack variant[4], the first regular 'Mech design sporting double heat sinks in decades if not centuries. (Although it is not generally known, the Confederation did not develop double heat sinks themselves; the Federated Suns had prototypes manufactured in the Lyran Commonwealth and a Capellan agent was able to siphon a share of the production off to the Confederation.[5])

Following the discovery of the Helm Memory Core and the subsequent dissemination of lost Star League knowledge throughout the Inner Sphere in 3028, double heat sinks gradually became a staple of 'Mech construction again and were extensively used in retrofits and new designs. The NAIS had double heat sinks ready for serial production in 3041.[1][4]

The references 1 in the text are excepts from the 20 Year Update sourcebook while the 4 is the Historical: War of 3039 sourcebook. These are fairly recent books, so take them at face value.

Double Heat Sinks are a part of 3025 BattleTech. They are just extremly uncommon, some might sight rare or even legendary. I dont see a problem with them since they dont give you 10 free engine DHS as soon as you find a couple of them. It should be okay. And the best part? You dont have to take them - play with your 3025 Tech Without the free engine DHS they are just marginally better if you have a Laser Mech, since the space they need is massive.

 

[Amechwarrior]

Given how the base 10 HS are handled in the beta CombatGameConstants.json and applied globally to all units, and chassisDef files have an extra entry "Heatsinks": 0, that may allow added engine HS it is possible they could implement in-engine DHS if they wanted to for the right variants. However, any DHS you might find in the SP would not allow you to change your current variants stock 10 engine singles. They did mention some form of cooling modules, which could do that, but we know basically nothing about them and the other advanced gear like the melee actuators and better gyros. All of this could be groundwork for lvl2 tech and even allow playtesting now, however I'm leaning toward what was shown in the videos to be things we can acquire in game. It's kind of late in the schedule to be showcasing features and equipment you know won't be included in your only promotional videos.

 

[Agent.0.Fortune]

... they are just marginally better if you have a Laser Mech, since the space they need is massive.

I'd like the name of your accountant, I consider 100% margins, exceptional. Crit space I can spare, especially since all the high crit-slot weapons have been reduced, and most locations allow more crit slots, especially the legs and center toros, where DHS could not previously fit.

 

[Schamchusai]

As a new player (baked the game but haven't played the beta), why is the double heatsink more effective as an single heat sink?

As shown in the picture, the DHS uses three slots and grants 6 Heat/Turn and an SHS uses one slot and grants 3 Heat/Turn.
Does this mean 3x SHS grants you 9 Heat/Turn and only uses 3 Slots? So why use DHS? Or do the DHS have a lower weight than a SHS?

Sorry for the newbish question (and my frustrating bad english ^^).
I'm absorbing all the usefull Information of this forum in the last days to be a maximum prepared mercenary
(and yeah I know that I have to look for lots of good videos that I missed)

Greetings


PS.: Can't wait anymore to play this awesome game!

 

[HonorKnight]

Why is the double heatsink more effective than a single heat sink?

As shown in the picture, the DHS uses three slots and grants 6 Heat/Turn and an SHS uses one slot and grants 3 Heat/Turn.
Does this mean 3x SHS grants you 9 Heat/Turn and only uses 3 Slots? So why use DHS? Or do the DHS have a lower weight than a SHS?

DHS weighs 1 ton to dissipate as much heat as 2 tons of SHS, so you basically use half the tonnage while using up 50% more crit slots