Diplomatic annexion

[Black Ader]

They seem to me harder to perform with the new patch.
I tried several attempts with Russia, good monarch (10 in diplomacy), same faith, Russia 12 times wealthier than counterparts (Ryazan and Novgord), of course relations at + 200...but no matter how much personal presents or state gifts I gave, it is alwayss a failyre.

Any tips? is there a particuliary tempo to observe (for example waiting one year after the last bribe... I mean present)?

 

[ConjurerDragon]

They seem to me harder to perform with the new patch.
I tried several attempts with Russia, good monarch (10 in diplomacy), same faith, Russia 12 times wealthier than counterparts (Ryazan and Novgord), of course relations at + 200...but no matter how much personal presents or state gifts I gave, it is alwayss a failyre.

Any tips? is there a particuliary tempo to observe (for example waiting one year after the last bribe... I mean present)?

failyre = failure. Are you using an english/US keyboard where the y is right next to the u instead of the z?

The EU2 diplomacy FAQ still covers most of the points even for FtG:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?172908-Diplomacy-FAQ-V1.08

If you want to diplo-annex a vassal there is the enforced limit to wait *at least* 10 years of vassalization but if you wait longer the chance get´s slowly better until 30years.
It´s not just the diplomacy rating of your monarch but the comparison of your monarchs diplomacy rating and the diplomacy rating of the vassal so sometimes it´s good to wait until the vassal gets a worse monarch.

Does Novgorod still have it´s center of trade? If so take that from them in a war before you try to vassalize and diploannex them.

How did you check that your Russia is 12 times more wealthy as the target of your diploannexation attempt?
Did you try the console command "info NOV"?

Edit: One bugfix of the Ftg 1.3 beta from the changelog 1.3.txt:

- It is no longer possible to diplomatically vassalize or annex countries of equal size.

How many provinces do Ryazan, Novgorod and Russia have in your game?

 

[Black Ader]

failyre = failure. Are you using an english/US keyboard where the y is right next to the u instead of the z?

Yes, indeed.

Does Novgorod still have it´s center of trade? If so take that from them in a war before you try to vassalize and diploannex them.

Yes, and for Novgorod I'm less surprised. But for Ryazan...

How did you check that your Russia is 12 times more wealthy as the target of your diploannexation attempt?
Did you try the console command "info NOV"?

How many provinces do Ryazan, Novgorod and Russia have in your game?

No, I used the stats book, somewhere are indicated the wealth of every nation. Novgorod is more 6 or 7 less wealthy than me, Ryazan 12...And Ryazan has only one province, I have 8.

Since relations are at +200, are gifts still effective? Or it doesn't change anything to the chance of success of diplo-annexion?

 

[ConjurerDragon]

...
No, I used the stats book, somewhere are indicated the wealth of every nation. Novgorod is more 6 or 7 less wealthy than me, Ryazan 12...And Ryazan has only one province, I have 8.

Try a comparison using the info command. You know how the console works?

Since relations are at +200, are gifts still effective? Or it doesn't change anything to the chance of success of diplo-annexion?

Gifts beyond +200 relations are wasted for the purpose of diplo-annexation.
What will increase your chance of success is waiting longer than the minimum 10 years to the maximum of 30 years.

Or you bribe until +200, try to diplo-annex, fail, bribe up to 200 again until they accept.

Edit: You mentioned that Novgorod still has more than 1 province. In that case forcevassalizing and diploannexing might not be the best way because you have to consider the gain of Badboy. As far as I remember:
If you take provinces from Novgorod in a war that are coreprovinces of you you´ll gain 0 BB.
If you forcevassalize NOV and then diploannex them you´ll gain 1 BB / province gained regardless if the provinces are cores of you or not.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?234404-Bad-Boy-FAQ-ver-1.09

 

[Black Ader]

I don't know how the console is working, could you tell me?

I gained Novgorod as vassal thanks to an event. Of course I could cancel vassalization and try to annex by force but I found simplier and easier to diplo-annex. Or better said I thought it would be.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

I don't know how the console is working, could you tell me?

During the game press the F12 key and you get a black line where you can enter text.
There are a lot of commands that you can use:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...nds-and-triggers-list&p=10731881#post10731881
The info command works simply if you type
info TAG
where TAG is the tag of the state you want info about, e.g.
info RUS
to get info about Russia.

I gained Novgorod as vassal thanks to an event. Of course I could cancel vassalization and try to annex by force but I found simplier and easier to diplo-annex. Or better said I thought it would be.

The usual flow of events is an early war of Muscovy against Novgorod while NOV is distracted by a war against one of it´s other enemies (e.g. when they are in a war against Sweden or the Teutonic Order) and to take your core provinces from them in that war. And then later you either wage a 2nd war and force-vassalize them or wait for the event to make them your vassal.

If you plan a peaceful game and to take only your coreprovinces then it would be no problem. If you try to conquer more than Russia historically did then every single BadBoy earned will hinder you.