Did they "fix" Invading Vichy France for free territory as Italy?

[stormsand9]

I seem to recall when BBA released, invading Vichy France was pretty much free territory and Navy as Italy since Vichy France couldn't join factions, as shown when you tag switch into them:

However, now when I invade them they break their game rules and join allies, or If Germany has declared on Soviets, the Comintern

Is this a bug? or was it a fix to prevent the cheesy way of taking free land. Just wondering since this will affect how I play my Italy games. Cheers

 

[UlulvarCape]

Where you at war with the Allies? That might be the reason since they join factions whenever you're at war with the opposing faction

 

[stormsand9]

Indeed I was at war with the allies, however as I said when By Blood Alone was released, if you invaded Vichy France as Italy, even while already at war with allies, Vichy France couldn't join any factions since they were limited by their rules, thus letting you get basically all of their territory and land for free since you can deny germany to join in ur war against Vichy.
However, now I have just found out this trick no longer works, that the AI ignores their rules and will join a faction, which they couldn't do back when BBA was released, hence the title.
edit: see below

 

[UlulvarCape]

Indeed I was at war with the allies, however as I said when By Blood Alone was released, if you invaded Vichy France as Italy, even while already at war with allies, Vichy France couldn't join any factions since they were limited by their rules, thus letting you get basically all of their territory and land for free since you can deny germany to join in ur war against Vichy.
However, now I have just found out this trick no longer works, that the AI ignores their rules and will join a faction, which they couldn't do back when BBA was released, hence the title.

Yeah i think its when your at war with the allies, it does some weird thing and france joins the allies

i invade vichy france as italy before but that was because i wasnt apart of the allies

 

[GrandVezir]

"Cannot join factions" means that Vichy France cannot request to join a faction.

Vichy can, however, still accept an invitation to a faction, which the Allies will extend since you are at war with them and Vichy both.

 

[stormsand9]

"Cannot join factions" means that Vichy France cannot request to join a faction.

Vichy can, however, still accept an invitation to a faction, which the Allies will extend since you are at war with them and Vichy both.

Ah I see, did not know that's how that worked. Thank you.
A bit of a shame, I can't sealion the U.K early anymore because the warscore Germany gets is too damned high IMO, but maybe I can make it work if i refine my strat. Sealion before U.S joins, have enough warscore for U.K home islands... but then again it might not work. I don't care if Germany takes Canada, Aus, NZL, South africa or british malaya, but I need the entire home isles, all of africa, and anything I can get from the Raj... then invade Vichy france myself for free territory... I must test this next week
edit: and that's definately how my first and 2nd runs went when BBA released- I sea lioned the U.K then invaded Vichy france and since I wasn't fighting anyone else they couldn't join the faction.

 

[GothiousRex]

I can't sealion the U.K early anymore

Umm, you should be able to... without Germany...

 

[stormsand9]

"A bit of a shame, I can't sealion the U.K early anymore because the warscore Germany gets is too damned high IMO"
that comment implies I want to fight with Germany, in historical time, not abusing the AI even more then I already do. Why even bother with the silly push through the alps? if you're gonna do that just paradrop in '37 lmao

 

[plared]

In my historical game, Vichy France is guaranteed by Germany.

 

[GrandVezir]

In my historical game, Vichy France is guaranteed by Germany.

That only matters if Italy:

1. is not in the Axis (faction trumps guarantee), and
2. does not itself have a guarantee from Germany (guarantees cancel each other).

Thanks to the Tripartite Pact and Pact of Steel focuses, the only way Italy satisfies both conditions is if Italy or Germany go hard ahistorical.

 

[plared]

That only matters if Italy:

1. is not in the Axis (faction trumps guarantee), and
2. does not itself have a guarantee from Germany (guarantees cancel each other).

Thanks to the Tripartite Pact and Pact of Steel focuses, the only way Italy satisfies both conditions is if Italy or Germany go hard ahistorical.

If you form the Italian league, Germany always guarantees Vichi. At least in my three games in Italy, it was like this.

 

[stormsand9]

If you form the Italian league, Germany always guarantees Vichi. At least in my three games in Italy, it was like this.

Yes but did you guarantee Germany and Japan due to the Tripartite pact focus Japan has? If you guarantee Germany, then when you declare on Vichy, Germany shouldn't be able to fight a war with you due to the fact that you're guranteed by them due to the Tripartite pact

 

[stormsand9]

I'd like to close this thread out with thanks to GrandVezir, his comments made me realise I can just not help Germany with the war w/allies immediately, and instead invade Vichy France, and thanks to being in the Axis I of course don't go to war with Germany.
the U.K doesn't become that much stronger in the time I wait, so I can still take the Suez and Gibraltar, and it will be even easier with the Vichy fleet added to my forces.
I can't wait to play my next Italy game trying this out on the weekend. The only hiccup with this otherwise perfect strategy is whether I should annex Vichy's western african territory and just lose it all to the British, and possibly lose access to convoy raiding the sea region between brazil and africa (if spain's port access isn't enough I don't remember if it extends far enough) or puppet Vichy, which of course makes them my puppet, but some weird tomfoolery might still happen due to Case Anton.

either way, i'm glad I can still get Vichy for basically free lol. Serves Germany right for hogging all the war score!

 

[plared]

Yes but did you guarantee Germany and Japan due to the Tripartite pact focus Japan has? If you guarantee Germany, then when you declare on Vichy, Germany shouldn't be able to fight a war with you due to the fact that you're guranteed by them due to the Tripartite pact

Then you declare Vichi, you conquer it and France free I imagine that it declares you. It would make the game too easy. I don't think it would, first Russia and then the allies.

By the way, if I don't do the mission to conquer Greece from the duce. Something happens, other than the penalties it says in the event. I'm with Russia and it's not the time......