Is there a way to get the AI to allocate escorts to all convoys? I often have 50+ unused escorts and up to half of my convoys without any escorts allocated. Or has it decided that those ones don't need protection?
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The convoy game doesn't work super well in HoI3. Not entirely clear how the game allocated those resources.
Thanks for the reply. At least I'm not missing something, just have to add convoy escorts to my to-do list I guess
If your convoys get attacked repeatedly the AI wil usually add some escorts, if you have some available, sooner or later.
If that is enough to shield your convoys suffcient against the enemy forces is unpredictable.
Its depending on many factors so there is no general answer possible.
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Thanks for the reply. I suppose it is good that the ai considers whether the convoy is threatened though I think it makes more sense to allocate all available escorts. Better to have protection which is not needed than have convoys attacked when escorts are sitting idle.
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You can manually add escorts to existing convoys, even if the convoys are run by the AI. However, the AI will sometimes strip those escorts away or not replace them when they are lost. If you run your convoys manually, you will be able to control this more closely. To try and incite the AI to somewhat maintain the escorts you manually set up, make sure that the option 'Auto-maintain Convoy Transports/Escorts' is ticked in the 'create convoy' screen.
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Thanks for the suggestion. This is what i was finding, I would add escorts to convoys and they would get removed again.
Escorts are of marginal use anyway. Occasionally, a sub will break off an attack due to the presence of escorts, but that rarely happens, and the escorts may inflict a couple of points of ORG damage to a sub now and then, which automatically recovers over time. That only becomes relevant if the sub is attacked soon after the incident by a search fleet, in which case it could enter the battle with reduced ORG.
I find those few benefits hardly worth the frequent loss of escorts IN ADDITION to the loss of convoys, since the losses of convoys don't seem much lower, if any, with escorts being present. I don't build them, because I don't consider them to be cost-effective, but I'll use any that are available from the start. A combination of air and sea searchers (multi-DD search fleets and land or carrier based aircraft) seems to be more effective than either alone, since any spotted subs have a chance to be successfully engaged by either, which will bring both into the fight.
I find those few benefits hardly worth the frequent loss of escorts IN ADDITION to the loss of convoys, since the losses of convoys don't seem much lower, if any, with escorts being present. I don't build them, because I don't consider them to be cost-effective, but I'll use any that are available from the start. A combination of air and sea searchers (multi-DD search fleets and land or carrier based aircraft) seems to be more effective than either alone, since any spotted subs have a chance to be successfully engaged by either, which will bring both into the fight.
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Thanks Kovax, interesting comments. I see your point about cost effectiveness but personally I think I'll continue to build some escorts for flavour and whatever small benefit they may have, but now I won't waste time micro managing their allocation or checking what the AI is (or isn't) doing.
One thing to keep in mind is that the naval doctrine tech Destroyer Escort Role makes convoy escorts stronger, so if you do start with a large pool of convoy escorts (ie UK), it might be worth researching that a couple of times. The finisher tech "Sea Lane Defence", on the other hand, affects the "Escort Convoy" mission that you can give to fleets, which is pretty much useless--don't research that tech.
As for convoy/escort building, I have a few approaches as the UK, for example:
1) Don't build any and manually cancel/reset resource/supply convoys as needed. This is borderline an exploit, because you'll barely lose any convoys and your starting pool will be enough for the rest of the game. You'll also be able to replenish your resources instantly by just running the convoys for a couple of days.
2) Run 1-3 serial builds of convoys constantly to replace losses. This is probably the most IC-efficient non-exploit route, as escorts cost way more than convoys.
3) Hybrid approach. Manually control resource and supply convoys but run 1 serial build of escorts and 1 of convoys while upgrading Destroyer Escort Role. Lately this has been my preferred "role-playing" route. The escorts are expensive so I feel like I'm compensating for the somewhat cheesy strategy of cancelling certain convoy routes. Also it feels wrong to play as UK and not build the equivalent of Flower-class corvettes. This approach also lends itself well to micro-ing convoy/escort ratios. I'll limit myself to a few routes (Malta, Alexandria, Rangoon, Singapour, for example), and put a 1:1 ratio or even 2:1 ratio on those routes.
As non-UK/USA nations, you will likely have to be very selective about convoy routes regardless. Italy, Japan and Germany can't afford IC investments to support long-range convoys until they gain the upper hand on the seas in my opinion, so keep the routes short and only build them in areas where you can safely patrol and have air superiority.
Side note/shameless self-promotion: I'll be releasing my naval combat tutorial video on YouTube soon
As for convoy/escort building, I have a few approaches as the UK, for example:
1) Don't build any and manually cancel/reset resource/supply convoys as needed. This is borderline an exploit, because you'll barely lose any convoys and your starting pool will be enough for the rest of the game. You'll also be able to replenish your resources instantly by just running the convoys for a couple of days.
2) Run 1-3 serial builds of convoys constantly to replace losses. This is probably the most IC-efficient non-exploit route, as escorts cost way more than convoys.
3) Hybrid approach. Manually control resource and supply convoys but run 1 serial build of escorts and 1 of convoys while upgrading Destroyer Escort Role. Lately this has been my preferred "role-playing" route. The escorts are expensive so I feel like I'm compensating for the somewhat cheesy strategy of cancelling certain convoy routes. Also it feels wrong to play as UK and not build the equivalent of Flower-class corvettes. This approach also lends itself well to micro-ing convoy/escort ratios. I'll limit myself to a few routes (Malta, Alexandria, Rangoon, Singapour, for example), and put a 1:1 ratio or even 2:1 ratio on those routes.
As non-UK/USA nations, you will likely have to be very selective about convoy routes regardless. Italy, Japan and Germany can't afford IC investments to support long-range convoys until they gain the upper hand on the seas in my opinion, so keep the routes short and only build them in areas where you can safely patrol and have air superiority.
Side note/shameless self-promotion: I'll be releasing my naval combat tutorial video on YouTube soon
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Kovax is right that convoy escorts are (almost completely) useless and a waste of resources. Even with technological advances, they will never deal sufficient damage to submarines to make it worth the investment.
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I never really worry about them for myself, I'll build a few as Italy in the hopes it might give me just that extra bit of help in the Med but as has already been mentioned, it probably doesn't. Although I'm pretty sure that I have received messages before that my submarines avoided attacking a convoy because of the presence of escorts....and I know I've sunk escorts before which means the escorts were sunk instead of the convoys themselves. Again, playing as Italy, I don't know how much that effects the supply of the British forces in Africa, if at all.
While I was learning how Navys work with Italy, i did find the explanation that Escorts are downgraded DDs. Historically, they might have been retrofitted civil ships for military operations. That makes sense since UK was severely outstretched to protect its posessions around the globe and had a hard time supplying its national territory with resources from the colonies and the US.
DDs are already the weakest ship type in the fleets, though excellent in finding submarines, thus, as @Kovax and others pointed out, you're better off with DDs and some capital ships, especially with a CV or CVL, at hunting those unnerving subs.
DDs are already the weakest ship type in the fleets, though excellent in finding submarines, thus, as @Kovax and others pointed out, you're better off with DDs and some capital ships, especially with a CV or CVL, at hunting those unnerving subs.
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Since capital ships (other than carriers) have no ASW capabilities at all in this game, the main reason for putting a capital ship with your sub-hunters is for protection against enemy capital ships hunting your hunters.
Normally, it appears that escorts are sunk IN ADDITION to convoys, not instead of. I frequently get messages that 1-2 convoys were sunk, but if I use escorts, it's usually 1-2 convoys AND 1-2 escorts lost. In my opinion, it's simply not worth the IC drain for those few occasions where a sub breaks off an attack due to your escorts. The actual damage to the subs as a result of escorts is trivial at best, mainly light ORG damage which goes away in a few days without forcing the subs to return to port.
Playing GER, I've had subs hit 20-30 Allied convoys before returning to base to change commanders (because the one currently attached to the fleet had ranked up to Skill 5), and only suffer 1-2% damage during the entire cruise. Any engagement with actual DDs or CV/CVLs, and I'm typically looking at heavy damage or one lost submarine out of a group of 2-3.
Normally, it appears that escorts are sunk IN ADDITION to convoys, not instead of. I frequently get messages that 1-2 convoys were sunk, but if I use escorts, it's usually 1-2 convoys AND 1-2 escorts lost. In my opinion, it's simply not worth the IC drain for those few occasions where a sub breaks off an attack due to your escorts. The actual damage to the subs as a result of escorts is trivial at best, mainly light ORG damage which goes away in a few days without forcing the subs to return to port.
Playing GER, I've had subs hit 20-30 Allied convoys before returning to base to change commanders (because the one currently attached to the fleet had ranked up to Skill 5), and only suffer 1-2% damage during the entire cruise. Any engagement with actual DDs or CV/CVLs, and I'm typically looking at heavy damage or one lost submarine out of a group of 2-3.
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That sounds about right. You must be using 1940 subs though (or at least fully upgraded 1937). I find the early war subs get shredded by CV/CVL and badly marred by DD because of their low speed.
That's another (somewhat unrelated) thing to keep in mind. Subs get a big boost in 1940 but by the time UK gets 1941 air-launched torpedoes and naval/air radar techs, ASW has the edge again. There is sort of a "happy time" for subs in the game.
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If I'm playing GER, the subs are typically 1937 models, and I begin researching the 1940 air detection equipment near the end of 1939, so late 1939 (after France falls) through mid-to-late 1940 is indeed "happy time" for the subs, with several small groups operating from the coast of occupied France. By 1941, it's irrelevant, because the UK is generally out of the war, with half their fleet at the bottom of the Atlantic and the home islands in German hands.
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I guess what I meant was that UK players should bear in mind that ASW will get harder around 1940 and then easier again around mid-1941. As Germany, 1941 is a good time to switch from sub construction to a more serious surface fleet and carrier formations to make trans-Atlantic invasions possible.
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Considering the long build time of CVs, Germany really needs to start construction on them by somewhere around late 1939-1940, to have enough to face the US by 1943-44. Playing GER, I won't start construction on more than a couple of replacement subs after the beginning of 1940. If you don't have your sub fleet done by some time in 1940, you've probably missed the window.
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