Short summary of your issue 1.1.3 - All leased holding "Realm bonuses" are applied to the wrong characters' realm
Game Version 1.1.3
What OS are you playing on?
Windows
What platform are you using?
Steam
Do you have mods enabled? No
Have you tried verifying your game files (Steam only)?
Yes
How much "pain" is this causing you?
8
Please explain the issue you experienced in the most condensed way possible
Leased temple holdings are part of the holder's realm, but their realm bonuses are applied to the lessee instead of to the holder.
Please explain how to reproduce the issue
Before I start, I've seen it argued on various forums that this is in fact intended behavior. This is false. It is most definitely a bug because there are no less than three in-game tooltips that all agree with each other and all clearly state that the mechanic is supposed to work a certain way, that is contrary to how it actually works.
You can reproduce this bug by starting a new game as virtually any Catholic ruler, in either start date. For a specific example, make a new game from the 867 start as Petty King Æthelred Æthelwulfson of Wessex. You will have 10 leased temple holdings within your domain, 4 of which have buildings that give realm bonuses. Those 4 are Brentford (in Middle Seaxe), Chichester (in Sussex), Dunmow (in East Seaxe), and Canterbury (in Kent). The first 3 of those have a Prayer Hall (Monasteries) building, and the last one has the special Canterbury Cathedral.
Open Brentford's holding view by clicking it on the map, or by opening Lunden's county view and selecting Brentford's holding tab. You can repeat this for the other 3 temples holdings listed above and you will find the same thing. You should see "Brentford, Your Temple Holding" followed by a bunch of stats for this particular holding. In the rightmost building slot you will see an icon for Prayer Halls. Mouse over that for the first relevant tooltip:
Tooltip 1, "Prayer Halls (Monasteries) Building", lists a bonus of +0.1 Piety per month to "Your Realm".
Now in the same holding view that shows the building slots, you there is a portrait of your Bishop in the lower left corner. To the right of his portrait are three icons - a church, a piety cross, and a number representing however much piety the holding is currently generating (in this case +0.1). Mouse over any of those three icons and you will find the second relevant tooltip:
Tooltip 2, "Church Holdings", lists your bishop as lessee and yourself as holder. It also lists "Effects from Buildings (for you)" and displays the same +0.1 piety per month (or +0.3 piety per month alongside many other bonuses if you repeat this for Canterbury). If you look at a temple holding outside your domain, for example the Taunton temple in Somerset (which belongs to your only feudal vassal) you will find that the "Church Holdings" tooltip instead lists "Effects from Buildings (for Earl Alfred)". By listing "you", or your feudal vassal by name, instead of listing you or your vassal's bishop, this tooltip strongly implies that the bonus should be going to the feudal lord who holds the temple rather than the bishop who leases it.
Now look again at any "Church Holdings" tooltip. Lock it in place, and then mouse over the word "Lessee" to open the third and most important tooltip:
Tooltip 3, "Leasing", states that "Leased Holdings are still considered part of the holder's Realm." Since Tooltip 2 lists you as holder for all temples in your domain, this clearly indicates that the temple holdings are considered part of your realm (and not part of your bishop's realm) and therefore all realm bonuses should apply to you instead of to your bishop.
In practice, it is easy to verify that no leased temple realm bonuses are correctly applied to any feudal lords. They are all incorrectly applied to the leasing bishop. In this specific case you should be getting +0.1 piety per month for each of your three Prayer Halls, and you also hold the Canterbury Cathedral which should give +0.3 piety per month, +0.2 piety per month additionally per powerful vassal on your council, +5% monthly renown, and +5% control growth. If you look at your piety you will find that none of these bonuses are being applied, and you will find the same thing if you inspect your renown, or the county control anywhere in your domain
You can also manually calculate how much piety your bishop should be generating to verify that yes, the piety bonuses for all temple holdings are being mistakenly applied to the bishop instead of you. In the super-specific case of the save file I've attached, your bishop gains +3.2 piety per month. This is accounted for by his 16 Learning (+1.6), being chaplain for a Duke (+1), the three Prayer Halls (+0.1 each, +0.3 for all three) and Canterbury Cathedral (+0.3, and no additional +0.2 bonuses because the bishop has no powerful vassals or council). There doesn't appear to be any way to verify that the non-piety bonuses from Canterbury Cathedral are being applied to the leasing bishop, but it's reasonable to assume that they are given that they are not being correctly applied and the piety portion of the bonus is going to that character.
In conclusion, the game is super specific in its in-game tooltips that you should be getting piety (and sometimes other bonuses) from your leased temple holdings, but instead everything goes to the bishop who has leased the temple instead of you, the holder and realm owner of the holding. This is a major issue as it severely reduces the piety income of nearly all secular characters far below what it was obviously intended to be, making major portions of the game (such as reforming religion) much more difficult to access than they should be. It also renders a number of special religious buildings functionally useless as their bonuses are applied to the wrong character, who often literally cannot make any use of them whatsoever because they lack the relevant stat that the bonus is applied to.
TLDR:
-"Church Holdings" tooltip lists bishop as Lessee, you as Holder.
-"Church Holdings" tooltip also lists these same realm bonuses as "Effects from buildings (for you)"
-"Leasing" tooltip says "Leased Holdings are still considered part of the holder's Realm."
-Building tooltip for Monasteries or special religious buildings list bonuses to "Your Realm".
-None of these bonuses are correctly applied. If you add up the sources of piety you will find that they are all erroneously applied to your bishop, the lessee, instead of to you, the holder and person whose realm the holding is in.
Is there anything else you think could help us identify/replicate the issue?
It can be replicated by starting a new game as any ruler at any start date, the bug will be present and applied throughout the world on countless characters.
I have attached a save game
Yes
Upload Attachment
File(s) attached
Game Version 1.1.3
What OS are you playing on?
Windows
What platform are you using?
Steam
Do you have mods enabled? No
Have you tried verifying your game files (Steam only)?
Yes
How much "pain" is this causing you?
8
Please explain the issue you experienced in the most condensed way possible
Leased temple holdings are part of the holder's realm, but their realm bonuses are applied to the lessee instead of to the holder.
Please explain how to reproduce the issue
Before I start, I've seen it argued on various forums that this is in fact intended behavior. This is false. It is most definitely a bug because there are no less than three in-game tooltips that all agree with each other and all clearly state that the mechanic is supposed to work a certain way, that is contrary to how it actually works.
You can reproduce this bug by starting a new game as virtually any Catholic ruler, in either start date. For a specific example, make a new game from the 867 start as Petty King Æthelred Æthelwulfson of Wessex. You will have 10 leased temple holdings within your domain, 4 of which have buildings that give realm bonuses. Those 4 are Brentford (in Middle Seaxe), Chichester (in Sussex), Dunmow (in East Seaxe), and Canterbury (in Kent). The first 3 of those have a Prayer Hall (Monasteries) building, and the last one has the special Canterbury Cathedral.
Open Brentford's holding view by clicking it on the map, or by opening Lunden's county view and selecting Brentford's holding tab. You can repeat this for the other 3 temples holdings listed above and you will find the same thing. You should see "Brentford, Your Temple Holding" followed by a bunch of stats for this particular holding. In the rightmost building slot you will see an icon for Prayer Halls. Mouse over that for the first relevant tooltip:
Tooltip 1, "Prayer Halls (Monasteries) Building", lists a bonus of +0.1 Piety per month to "Your Realm".
Now in the same holding view that shows the building slots, you there is a portrait of your Bishop in the lower left corner. To the right of his portrait are three icons - a church, a piety cross, and a number representing however much piety the holding is currently generating (in this case +0.1). Mouse over any of those three icons and you will find the second relevant tooltip:
Tooltip 2, "Church Holdings", lists your bishop as lessee and yourself as holder. It also lists "Effects from Buildings (for you)" and displays the same +0.1 piety per month (or +0.3 piety per month alongside many other bonuses if you repeat this for Canterbury). If you look at a temple holding outside your domain, for example the Taunton temple in Somerset (which belongs to your only feudal vassal) you will find that the "Church Holdings" tooltip instead lists "Effects from Buildings (for Earl Alfred)". By listing "you", or your feudal vassal by name, instead of listing you or your vassal's bishop, this tooltip strongly implies that the bonus should be going to the feudal lord who holds the temple rather than the bishop who leases it.
Now look again at any "Church Holdings" tooltip. Lock it in place, and then mouse over the word "Lessee" to open the third and most important tooltip:
Tooltip 3, "Leasing", states that "Leased Holdings are still considered part of the holder's Realm." Since Tooltip 2 lists you as holder for all temples in your domain, this clearly indicates that the temple holdings are considered part of your realm (and not part of your bishop's realm) and therefore all realm bonuses should apply to you instead of to your bishop.
In practice, it is easy to verify that no leased temple realm bonuses are correctly applied to any feudal lords. They are all incorrectly applied to the leasing bishop. In this specific case you should be getting +0.1 piety per month for each of your three Prayer Halls, and you also hold the Canterbury Cathedral which should give +0.3 piety per month, +0.2 piety per month additionally per powerful vassal on your council, +5% monthly renown, and +5% control growth. If you look at your piety you will find that none of these bonuses are being applied, and you will find the same thing if you inspect your renown, or the county control anywhere in your domain
You can also manually calculate how much piety your bishop should be generating to verify that yes, the piety bonuses for all temple holdings are being mistakenly applied to the bishop instead of you. In the super-specific case of the save file I've attached, your bishop gains +3.2 piety per month. This is accounted for by his 16 Learning (+1.6), being chaplain for a Duke (+1), the three Prayer Halls (+0.1 each, +0.3 for all three) and Canterbury Cathedral (+0.3, and no additional +0.2 bonuses because the bishop has no powerful vassals or council). There doesn't appear to be any way to verify that the non-piety bonuses from Canterbury Cathedral are being applied to the leasing bishop, but it's reasonable to assume that they are given that they are not being correctly applied and the piety portion of the bonus is going to that character.
In conclusion, the game is super specific in its in-game tooltips that you should be getting piety (and sometimes other bonuses) from your leased temple holdings, but instead everything goes to the bishop who has leased the temple instead of you, the holder and realm owner of the holding. This is a major issue as it severely reduces the piety income of nearly all secular characters far below what it was obviously intended to be, making major portions of the game (such as reforming religion) much more difficult to access than they should be. It also renders a number of special religious buildings functionally useless as their bonuses are applied to the wrong character, who often literally cannot make any use of them whatsoever because they lack the relevant stat that the bonus is applied to.
TLDR:
-"Church Holdings" tooltip lists bishop as Lessee, you as Holder.
-"Church Holdings" tooltip also lists these same realm bonuses as "Effects from buildings (for you)"
-"Leasing" tooltip says "Leased Holdings are still considered part of the holder's Realm."
-Building tooltip for Monasteries or special religious buildings list bonuses to "Your Realm".
-None of these bonuses are correctly applied. If you add up the sources of piety you will find that they are all erroneously applied to your bishop, the lessee, instead of to you, the holder and person whose realm the holding is in.
Is there anything else you think could help us identify/replicate the issue?
It can be replicated by starting a new game as any ruler at any start date, the bug will be present and applied throughout the world on countless characters.
I have attached a save game
Yes
Upload Attachment
File(s) attached
Attachments
-
Bonus Verification - County Control.jpg -
Bonus Verification - Holder Piety.jpg -
Bonus Verification - Holder Renown.jpg -
Bonus Verification - Lessee Piety.jpg -
Cerdicing_867_01_01.ck3
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, Canterbury Cathedral Building.jpg)
Tooltip 1 (alternate), Canterbury Cathedral Building.jpg -
Tooltip 1, Prayer Halls Building.jpg -
, Church Holdings (in someone else's domain).jpg)
Tooltip 2 (Alternate), Church Holdings (in someone else's domain).jpg -
Tooltip 2, Church Holdings.jpg -
Tooltip 3, Leasing.jpg
- 5
- 5
- 1
