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Europa Universalis III 46143 EU3 - After Action Reports (AAR)
Smolensk & Ukraine are one province nations and Kiev wasn't one of those provinces. Lithuania is still formidable and has a larger army than I do. Novgorods army is about the same size as mine and we wont even go into how big Sweden's army is in case they join in to fight me. o_O

Support limit isn't the problem for expanding my army. Money to support the troops is. Right now I have it balanced fairly well so that I have a bit of money coming in at the end of each year but between sliders and tribute I'm still losing 3.6 ducats a month. Am one bad event from having that come tumbling down as well.

As for having gotten out of the war with Novgorod before that seemed necessary at the time. I'd just taken Ryazan and annexed it. My army was needing reinforcements bad and I had a big stack of Novgorod troops siezing one of my provinces. There were also two fairly large stacks of Swedes marching south to play so it seemed prudent to get a white peace while I still had the war points for it.

Yeah, I know I'll be fighting strong enemies but when you do that you have to pick your battles carefully. Just my opinion but it seems more prudent at the moment to try and get more alliances and then do everything humanly possible to goad Novgorod into attacking me so that I can get better chance of them not having alliance support when they move. Failing that there will be more wars in the next ten to twenty years and that means chances for Novgorods alliances to break down and more time to diplo annex Yaroslavl. Might not be a great plan but its what I have for the moment.
 
Since the Poland-Lithuania PU is broken it might be possible to get Poland on your side, maybe. I think your bad-boy path earlier is hurting you here though. At this point you may well just have to be patient and wait until one or more of them get embroiled in another war (Lith will have a rough time when the GH comes calling if they aren't paying tribute already, for example).

Also, having mil drill will greatly aid in beating them, assuming they don't also have it which as I recall is unlikely for Nov at least.
 
Don't feel you have to rush. You don't lose points if you haven't formed Russia by 1450, or even by 1650, as long as you're having fun.

A Sweden-Novgorod alliance is tough to beat, but not impossible. The Swedish army has to walk all the way across Finland and northern Russia to reach your provinces, so it's going to be hurting for attrition. Let it besiege some of your cities in the winter, then pull back to lure it into assaulting a city, then charge forward when their morale is shattered. Defeat them, hunt them down until they're all dead, then offer white peace before they can raise another army.
 
StephenT said:
Don't feel you have to rush. You don't lose points if you haven't formed Russia by 1450, or even by 1650, as long as you're having fun.

A Sweden-Novgorod alliance is tough to beat, but not impossible. The Swedish army has to walk all the way across Finland and northern Russia to reach your provinces, so it's going to be hurting for attrition. Let it besiege some of your cities in the winter, then pull back to lure it into assaulting a city, then charge forward when their morale is shattered. Defeat them, hunt them down until they're all dead, then offer white peace before they can raise another army.
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Both parts of your post are very profound actually. It got me to thinking about my aims in the game; what I wanted to accomplish. First goal of course is to unify Russia, then the second is to make her the dominant military power in the area. That would be followed by trying to spread the Orthodox faith as far as I could. Pretty straightforward all things considered. That said there is no time limit on it and I'm having a lot of fun in the attempt so if it takes awhile then so be it. The second part, about the Novgorod/Swedish alliance also came true but I'll get to that in a minute. ;)

First off, started the game up and checked the national ideas of those around me. Novgorod had Shrewd Trading Practice so no surprise there. Sweden had Glorious Arms so I figured they were spoiling for a fight. It took Lithuania awhile to get around to getting one but when they finally did they had taken Military Drill just as I had. Kind of troubling all things considered.

That wasn't the only troubling thing. Somehow Novgorod talked the Teutonic Order into allying with them. o_O Now they were allied with the both of us and Novgorod still had Sweden and Lithuania as allies. Remembering what was said earlier about answering defensive summons first made me realize I had no hope if I was the aggressor vs Novgorod. I would be surrounded and picked clean. War was not an option yet since I was losing the peace so badly.

So I waited...the first time it became an option I demanded to annex Yaroslavl...and much to my surprise they accepted. My current king isnt great but he has a killer diplomacy score so there is one good thing there. My mission gave me the immediate core which also helped the ol economy a bit. Plus the kings high diplomacy score and my fading bad boy rating allowed me to score the alliance with Poland so thats a bit better. Now to see what the next mission gives me.

That one comes up to sieze Kholm from Novgorod. Back to that problem then as war still looks way too risky. I set up then, vulture like, to wait for a moment of weakness. It comes faster than I could have expected. For reason I wasn't real clear on Novgorod declared war on Poland. Lithuania, still allied with Poland declared on Novgorod and then I got an invitation to the dance. Teutonic Order decided to stay out altogether but Sweden joined the enemy and then the Horde, sensing an opportunity, also declared on Novgorod. This I hoped should go a lot better than I had hoped.

Sadly my optimism was short lived. The Horde didn't do anything more than raid occasionally and despite a few early skirmishes Poland and Lithuania didn't fully prosecute the war vs Novgorod. That left me pretty much alone vs them and Sweden. In the beggining I was still winning pretty handily and had taken four provinces, including Kholm and was sieging Novgorod itself. Things took a turn for the worse when Sweden started marching three and four stacks at a time down into Russia.

My armies usually whipped Novgorods pretty handily in anything resembling an even fight. I also usually beat the Swedes by pulling back, waiting till they started to siege my places and then attacking when their morale was weak. That said though my already fragile economy was falling deeper into the crapper to maintain the numbers of armies I needed to fight both enemies effectively. Inflation creeped up to about six point something, war exhaustion was getting high and the province of Kazan, now an independent nomad, was attacking as well.

It occured to me then that if war exhaustion went any higher it might bring up the Librum Veto, which would be nice but if I accepted the troops the sudden support expense would bankrupt me....plus even those might not be enough troops to win the day. I was starting to suffer revolts on top of everything else. :eek:hmy:

Taking a gamble I sent a peace emmisary to Novgorod. All my little battles had added up to a nice war score and I still had a couple of provinces under my control. Got them to cede Kholm, which would satisfy my mission and give me another core, and we would cease all hostilities. I was surprised that they accepted because if they had kept the screws to me for a few more months Muscowy would have split apart at the seems. Will credit that then to the AI not being as sharp as a human and count myself lucky. Now to lick my wounds, rest a bit and see how the alliance scene shakes down now. At least Novgorod is still at war with the Horde and now TO who declared war just as I peaced out. (come on guys, where were you when I needed you?!)
 
Well, good work, but about liberum veto - if you take enough novgorod provinces in the war, you can easily sustain the 15k troops after war, plus, you can allways mint during the war. Just remember to keep army on low maintenance after wars.
 
I wasn't worried about supporting them after the war. I was worried about support costs during the war. Also, if memory serves they are mostly cavalry? Good for breaking up enemy stacks in early game but not so hot at taking provinces. Yes, at that point my finances were so strained from losing my own provinces and retaking them that a sudden burden could have pushed me into the poor house. I'm already minting but am trying to do so carefully since I'm mindful of how badly the inflation can hurt me going forward.
 
Kepheren said:
I wasn't worried about supporting them after the war. I was worried about support costs during the war. Also, if memory serves they are mostly cavalry? Good for breaking up enemy stacks in early game but not so hot at taking provinces. Yes, at that point my finances were so strained from losing my own provinces and retaking them that a sudden burden could have pushed me into the poor house. I'm already minting but am trying to do so carefully since I'm mindful of how badly the inflation can hurt me going forward.
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Yeah, liberum veto can definitely be a double edged sword if you can't use it to score a quick, devastating victory. A lot of times I've had to use it then immediately disband some/all of the troops because of money and/or force limits.

Things sound to be looking pretty good as long as Kazan isn't too big. Hopefully you can score some easy, pretty good provinces from them while waiting out your peace timer with Novgorod. Getting Lithuania out of that alliance will help too if they stay out of it. Money will probably be tight while snagging those horde provs but that isn't unusual for Muscowy. By my count you should be in line to get the subjugate Novgorod mission next, no?

Lithuania taking Military Drill is unfortunate but if you can keep the TO and Poland alliances they will be in a really bad situation. At least you have the advantage against Novgorod and Sweden.

Have you gotten a 6 star MoM yet? They can help a lot early in the game when money is tight, plus every 5 star one you get while trying is worth 15+ ducats to you when they get hired.
 
brifbates said:
Things sound to be looking pretty good as long as Kazan isn't too big. Hopefully you can score some easy, pretty good provinces from them while waiting out your peace timer with Novgorod. Getting Lithuania out of that alliance will help too if they stay out of it. Money will probably be tight while snagging those horde provs but that isn't unusual for Muscowy. By my count you should be in line to get the subjugate Novgorod mission next, no?
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Funny you should mention that. I went on to play for awhile tonight. Kazan is not much of a problem as they are only one province and seem just as willing to fight the Golden Horde as me. Silly little nomads have a death wish it seems. :D At any rate the plan when I start is to monitor the war between Novgorod and the Horde while I wait out the truce. With luck it will last long enough that I can get back in before they get peace and really drive Novgorods war exhaustion into the ground. Also, you are quite correct....my new mission when I booted it up was to subjugate Novgorod so all the better.

Funny thing happened then though. Poland got into a snit with some of there small neighbors. It escalated into a war vs several small states, Venice, Pommerania and Lithuania on one side and Poland, Muscowy and the Teutonic Order on the other. When I was invited I checked the current force totals of all combatants and see that at the moment Lithuania only has an army of about five thousand guys. Not sure how that happened, probably from fighting the Hordes whom they are still at war with, but no way am I going to pass that up. If nothing else I'll get plenty of military tradition out of it! Let slip the dogs of war again.

This war was a pretty one sided affair. Pretty much by myself I rolled Lithuania into a ball and sieged out all of their provinces but two within four years time. Much as I suspected would happen when it all ended I got nada as a junior partner (good looking out for me there Poland. :angry: ) but at least Lithuania wouldnt be a threat any time soon. Now I had about four months to recruit some more troops and get into position for Novgorod.

The Horde had pretty well nerfed them and took a couple of their eastern most provinces. Even better for my purposes they had NO army remaining at this point, were eaten up with revolt and seemed to be flat broke. They still had Sweden as an ally but all they had left was about ten thousand troops and more than a few revolts of their own. Was looking like this might be easier than I thought.

Much to my surprise as soon as I declared war on them Sweden did to. Checking quickly I see that their stability has dropped to minus two and the country seems to be going up in flames. Not sure how or why that happened but I wasn't going to slow down now. Full speed ahead into northern Russia. Apparently seeing weakness The Hansa declared and started laying siege to that little province north of Ingermanland. Similarly Sweden spares one small unit to start a siege of Karelia I think it is. The AI seems to have some serious issues going on but I ignore that and start beating the living crap out of the rest of the country.

It took about three and a half years to finish the job and that was only because Kazan was acting the fool again and I had to send a stack down to their border to make them stay home. The Hansa gave up as winter set in and went home but the Swedes actually took Karelia even as their stability dipped to minus three. o_O That left me holding the rest of the country and with a big decision to make. With Sweden holding part of the territory I could only get 99 on the war score. Also, I had to subjugate the country, not take all the provinces to get the cores I needed.

In the end I took one province and forced them into vassalization. This was in part because I found in Htth that vassal bishoprics became duchys when subjugated and hoped the same would happen with a merchant republic so that I could get marriage and then alliance to give me an excuse to smack the crap out of the Swedes who were still in a war with Novgorod. That didn't happen, at least not yet, but fortunately I do have the cores and now the mission has become to annex Novgorod. Might be harder with them as a vassal and with the Swedes going crazy up there (unless Sweden fall apart totally which is possible at the moment.) but am sure I will think of something. For now I've saved the game and am going to ponder what to do next.
 
Wow.

Am in a bit of a state of shock here at the moment. Logged in to the game for awhile today to try and see where things where going to go with Sweden and dealing with Novgorod as a vassal. Worried over it a bit with things paused. Considered declaring war on Sweden to push them, Brunswick and the Hansa (who were quickly back in the war again after I left) out of the country. Then noticed that France was guranteeing Sweden and was defender of the faith. They have a whole bunch of allies so if I declare on Sweden I might be at war with half of Europe.

Deciding to sit back and watch then, since the alternative would be more trouble than it was worth, I settled in to watch how the war would play out. If they gobbled up a lot of turf then I'd just have to go fight them for it later when things were more advantageous. Luckily it wasn't too bad. The Swedes were still eat up with revolts, though they quickly got their stability back up to zero and in the end only took Neva & Karelia. Neither of those is necessary to form Russia so let them have fun with that.

With their war over Novgorod was a shell of itself. They were paying tribute to the Horde, had no army and their stability was shot. Revolts starting popping up everywhere. In fact the whole country fell within two years time. I watched all this in fascination to see where it might go. The results surprised me as Olonets, Beloozero, Kexholm, Ustyug & Archangelsk split off and became the independent nation of Pskov (the orignal having been eaten by Teutonics some years before.). This was more than a little curious as another province had formed Pskov about a decade earlier over on the other side of the Horde lands from one of Novgorods old colonies.

That province was apparently now the capital of Pskov and the rest of this stuff just sitting there like low hanging fruit in front of me. As soon as they joined Pskov I got the reconquest CB on them and it was too easy to pass up. Moved up three stacks of Muscowy troops and siezed control of all five of the nearby provinces within a year since their morale was so shakey and they had no army. The capital had fallen to the hordes just before I took the last of mine and they offered me all five provinces as part of the peace, though I did eat a big slice of bad boy pie for taking it. Now Novgorod is just two province, Novgorod itself and Ingermanland.

Checking my new holdings the revolt chances are small or non-existent. The Hordes are still busy with their eastern neighbors and fighting the Turks of all things. I turn my sights on the remains of my old enemy and cancel the vassilation. Then the next big gift from the computer comes through. Teutonic Order declares war on Novgorod and invites me to join. I get into the war in less than a week of canceling our relations and, even more lucky, my armies are in position to reach Novgorod & Ingermanland before the TO can so I will lead the sieges.

Both sieges are short and very sweet for me. I storm the walls before TO can white peace out and end the war and pause the game. It's another bad boy stab but I annex both provinces. That done I immediately pause and save the game in case this is a dream of some sort. ;) Checking the requirements I see that the only thing remaining till I can form Russia is for Smolensk to core...and due to another stroke of luck early in the game I've had it for ages. If nothing horrible happens will be able to form mother Russia on or about spring of 1452 and it is currently 1446!

So, thats why I'm in shock. Wasn't aware that the computer could do nice things for the player without throwing all of space/time out of kilter. :p The plan now is to try and hold on for another six years without anything going horribly awry, form Russia and begin laying plans to push the GH back. Am sure some awful surprises will show up before then but at least for now am fairly happy with it and even the economy is improving. While I wait will try to get a few buildings, start trade in Novgorod and maybe get some masters of the mint to fight back vs inflateion which is now at 9.2 or so. *yikes*
 
You can pretty much live, 9 inflation isn't that bad (once i had like 40 inflation as luxembourg, when trying fighting france as HRE, but it was back in IN - and i had 100K army, for like ~10 provinces).
 
Kepheren said:
Am sure some awful surprises will show up before then but at least for now am fairly happy with it and even the economy is improving.
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Not bad going!

If you've never unified Russia before, there is one potentially nasty surprise waiting for you:
You get cores on vast tracts of Golden Horde land, which sounds like a great deal - except every core you can't capture will be bleeding away your prestige until you do. So it might be better to wait until you're strong enough to fight a big war before pressing the 'It all belongs to Mother Russia' button.
 
Well 1450 is date at which if you invested enough in land tech, you should have no big problem fighting horde. IMHO you should have like at least LT 6(this allow equal fights). If you have LT at least 6 and you have enough big army (like 60k at least) you should be able to quickly defeat the golden horde, if you play well. At LT 10, horde is just no more of anything of a challenge(loses like ALL battles).
 
ywhtptgtfo said:
How about its pal Lithuania?
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Well, lithuania is lithuania. Big, but fragile. Not much of tradegoods, but some provinces are quite nice tax. Does not got much of potential.

EDIT: I wonder, how a man should play lithuania in DW... as you can't peace out with golden horde, because you are not the leader of this war, and you cannot cancel the alliance, as long as you are at war. So, is only possibility to actualy FIGHT the golden horde?
 
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To answer the earlier question my land tech is five but approaching six. I reasoned that a national idea or two would help me level the playing field a bit so most of my money is going into government research. As for the Hordes how exactly does one fight them now? I have conquered Kazan twice but the only options I get are to force admission of defeat or take tribute. Nothing there about taking land and I had occupied their whole one province country!

Had read that you could send settlers in but if you have to do that for every province it would become horribly expensive and time consuming to reach a thousand settlers for each one. o_O Besides, in their first war with the Horde Novgorod managed to get two provinces from them...the ones which later became Pskov & Kazan. They managed that in less than two years so there must be something I'm missing there.
 
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