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Bug Report: Health/Potion replenishing perks only work for host + other game breakers

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Feb 2, 2013
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  • Dungeonland
To the Dungeonland Dev Team,

Thank you for creating such a wonderful game. However, we have discovered several issues with it that require prompt redress:

1) The most significant bug we have found is one whereby perks that restore life or potions only function correctly for the host of any given online match. This includes Healer (heals party on critical), Vampire (heals self on hit), and Alchemist (checkpoints restore 1 potion). My friends and I have taken turns hosting in order to confirm that the the perks indeed never work for the other players yet always work for the host. We have also confirmed that in DM mode, since the dungeon master is the host, these perks work for NO ONE. This bug significantly affects game balance in DM mode as well as the utility of these perks in co-op.

2) The escape (esc) menu does not close when you press escape a second time. That is not to say that the game does nothing when you press esc while in Menu. Rather, the menu blinks as if you opened the menu again while already in menu. This leads me to believe that the esc key is only tied to an "open menu" command rather than a "toggle menu" command. This is highly problematic in that if one or more players are attacked by a sudden wave of spawned of monsters while in menu, they are unable to quickly exit out of the menu with esc in order to defend themselves. They are forced to use their mouse to hit resume (often after instinctively hitting escape several times to no avail), costing precious seconds that generally lead to downs or deaths

3) Healing supplies sometimes disappear before all of the bottles in the barrel are used up. This may be a bug, or merely a result of the healing supplies being on a timer. If it is the former, please find a way to make the supplies stay until all the bottles of healing are used up. If it is the latter (i.e. a deliberate design choice), please add some sort of indicator (like a bar or a countdown timer) that indicates to the players when the barrel will be disappearing so that they top themselves off before it disappears.

4) Also, we have found that the game does not properly remember class configurations for each slot during a given game session. For example, let's say that player 1 chose Shield & Sword warrior, player 2 chose lightning mage, and player 3 chose assassin. Upon returning to the lobby, be it from dying, clearing a stage, or manually choosing to go back to lobby, player 1 would always default to Mage, Player 2 would always default to rogue, and Player 3 would always default to warrior. While I am not 100% sure whether this is a bug, it is nonetheless extremely annoying as it requires players to reconfigure their characters every time they return to lobby. It wastes time and breaks flow. This is particularly troublesome in that the same situation applies when the slot is occupied by a bot. I have had many instances where we needed to return to lobby after entering the next stage because the bot in that given slot changed to a different class during the intermission and both players hit ready without remembering to switch the bot in the 3rd slot back to the desired class.


My party mates and I have had a great deal of fun playing this game. However, these bugs prevent us from recommending this game to our friends and family in good conscience. This in turn further decreases our own enjoyment of the game, because we have fewer people to play with than we otherwise would, and those of us who do have the game are not necessarily all on at the same time. As it stands, when people ask me whether this game is good and whether they should get it too, despite wanting to say "yes" because of how much I like it, all I can do is dodge the question with what amounts to an "ask me again later" while trying to avoid actually telling them about the game's problems and turning them away from the game entirely. Please address these issues as well as the frame-rate problems reported in other threads (yes, my teammates and I have had them too) as quickly as possible so that I can get more of my friends and family into this game.
 
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The first issue has been fixed in the latest patch. The second is a bother, but not a big issue. I'm pretty sure healing supplies are on a timer, and I don't think the fourth is that much of an issue.
 
Megaron, you're talking as if these are things that they don't need to fix, which is definitely not the case. When the escape menu doesn't even close properly, it shows a lack of polish that makes it extremely hard for me to get someone into this game. I've had a friend sitting next to me, watching me play who decided not to get this game specifically because he saw that the menu did not work work right. How is that "not a big issue"? Why are you trolling a bug report channel implying that devs don't need to fix things because the bug is "too small"? Friend, even if these were minor issues (which I don't feel that they are) no issue is too small that it does not need to be fixed if one's goal is to have a polished and fun product. And if it isn't so small that it doesn't need to be fixed there's no sense in going out of your way to post and say "this isn't a big issue". Besides, the fact that these things popped out at me and everyone I was playing with in the FIRST SEVERAL HOURS we played this game means they are significantly problematic.
 
Please calm down. I hate to tell you, but Megaron is right: these issues are pretty minor. Not that I mean you shouldn't have posted them; you just don't have to make it seem like yours are the issues that take highest priority. The devs should polish the game in every way they can, but right now they're fixing things like game crashes, unavoidable framerate lag and connection issues - in other words, things that actually do break the game. Also, I have to say, I don't really see how a menu not closing properly via keyboard could really be the deciding factor between buying a game or not. Seriously, all games have problems at launch to some degree and this isn't at all a bad launch by Paradox's (admittedly rather low) standards. If these things really prevent you from enjoying a game, you should probably not have bought it at launch (or before, as the case may be). A lack of polish is often the trade-off we early adopters get. Be honest to your friends: tell them about the bugs that you think need telling about, and remind them they can always buy the game later when those bugs are gone. I'm sorry if my post offends you.
 
Given that I hadn't uttered a single profanity in any of my posts, I find it difficult to imagine why you assume that I am anything other than calm. With regards to your comment about game crashes and frame rate lag, I agree wholeheartedly that they should be fixed. You'll note that I said as much in the closing statements of my original post. I simply did not want to speak too much about those other issues in this post because, as you'd know if you read the bug reporting rules, you are not supposed to make a new thread to discuss a bug that has already been posted about. You are supposed to post on the original thread regarding that bug.

Regarding your question as to how an improperly closing menu could really be a deciding factor... let me ask you whether your time and money are infinite or limited. Most people answer with the latter, and those that do tend to be discerning about what they spend their money on. When something as basic and fundamental as the user interface malfunctions, people often take it as a sign the the game is not polished enough to be worth their time/money. There are many who would not be bothered by it, but those tend to be people who have already purchased the game (like me) and decide to keep on playing it despite it's flaws. I challenge you to go up to anyone you know, tell them that a game has broken menus, and ask whether they'd buy that game when there exist literally hundreds of games on the market that are just as fun, yet do not have broken menus.

With regards to your comment about buying a game at launch, simply because developers on PC have the ability to patch their games after release does not give them carte blanche to release a buggy product. Unless you believe that the loyalty and good will given to a developer by customers who pre-order their game should be rewarded by giving them a broken product, your comment makes very little sense. Besides, if you'll read closer and apply a modicum of thought in your analysis of my original post, you'll note that I said that I did indeed have fun with this title despite the issues I discussed above. It is merely that these bugs are preventing me and those of my friends that own this game from recommending it to the many others that we know. This means we have fewer people to play with, and THAT is what is reducing our enjoyment of this game.

My post points out a number of problems which are, for a fact, preventing people I know from buying this game who would otherwise have bought it. I am asking the developers to fix these and the other performance bugs listed in other threads as quickly as possible (bugs which I did not wish to discuss at length because this is not the thread to which that discussion belongs). I see nothing wrong with that request, nor why you are not posting in support of that sentiment.
 
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Though I can see why you would make the connection, profanity actually isn't the single deciding factor determining whether or not a person is calm. Reading your response to Megaron, I got a distinct impression that you were upset by what he said (perhaps not unreasonably, he was a bit brusque), and that impression continues with your response to me. Understand that when I say calm down, I mean it in the politest sense possible. I do not mean to belittle you and I apologize if that's how it came off.

I really don't want to get sucked into an argument vortex with you, so I'm just gonna try and be clearer with my original message: I have no problem with the content of your post, I just find the tone of it rather annoying. I suppose I can't expect you to be completely respectful all the time. No one is. It's just that you lashed out at Megaron and I felt that he didn't quite deserve it.

P.S. I resent the implication that I didn't read the rules on posting bugs. As a matter of fact, I have.
P.P.S. Actually, the devs posted in an earlier thread (not the rules thread to be fair) that all bugs should be posted in separate threads. http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...-(Unable-to-pass-wall-unable-to-progress-etc) Not sure how to link to a specific post.
 
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No, what Mistbreaker did was absolutely right as a customer. He just voiced his feedback, it's 2 way communication and i'm sure the devs are rather grateful to collect as many feedback as they can.
 
No it shouldn't bother anybody. His main subject is well written and articulate and i don't feel he's rude, annoying at all. He just being firm. I think anybody who work at help desk or retail or even a moderator already know what to expect from their customer, there are many people with different personality.
 
Uggron, if you had read the rules on posting bug reports, and had kept those rules in mind, you would have understood exactly why I only spent half a sentence talking about the performance issues in my original post. You would also not have believed my post to mean that the bugs I mentioned above were somehow more important than something as fundamental as basic performance. The most that anyone could have logically inferred, given the closing sentence of my original post, is that I believed them to be of similar importance. And in that, they would be right. My own personal experience with lag in this game, which does not become significant until many hours into play, was easily rectified by restarting the game. As such, the performance issues did not degrade my gaming experience significantly more than the other bugs did.

As they apply to getting others into this game, there are 2 types of gamers. First, there are those like me that will pre-purchase a game with a cool concept from a developer or publisher that they like, and stick with it despite a few flaws that may materialize. Such gamers already have the game, and as far as this particular title is concerned, are a foregone conclusion. They may however, depending on whether the developers fix those flaws and whether they do it in a timely manner, elect not to pre-purchase future titles on good faith as they have done with this one. There are others who are less passionate about a developer or release title, and thus by default, sit on the fence as to whether to spend their time/money on this game as opposed to buying a different game, or sticking with what they're already playing. For such players, even if you know they'd enjoy the gameplay, it's difficult enough to get them to take the time to try the game when there is always so many good games coming out. When you throw the sort of bugs that I listed above into the mix -- bugs, I might add, that are readily apparent during the first several hours of gameplay -- they do as much or more than the performance issues (which may or may not materialize, and if they do, do not materialize until many hours into gameplay) to dissuade them from purchasing the game.

The only thing in my response to megaron that might even suggest that I was insulting him was the use of the word trolling. However, in this case and context, it is even easier to infer (especially given that HE did not use any inflammatory language either) that I used the word in its more traditional sense -- to patrol an area in search of someone or something. For example, as in to "troll a bar for chicks" or to "troll a forum for threads in which to be unnecessarily contrary". As such, there is no clear evidence of insult towards megaron in my post, merely firm disagreement with his stance and motivation.

Your post to me, on the other hand, was very clearly meant to be insulting. If your claim to have read the rules on bug posting is true, then you intentionally misinterpreted my post to mean that I small-mindedly believed the bugs I listed above to be of significantly higher priority than basic performance issues merely because I did not discuss the latter at length. Moreover, you implied that people who pre-purchase a game on good faith from a developer is somehow automatically not entitled to a completed product, and that it is their own fault if they do not enjoy the game as a result of any technical problems that may be present within. Not only is that statement untrue, it cheapens the calls-to-action of any such players who report these bugs and ask that the developers fix them quickly. Lastly, you, yourself acknowledge that you were being offensive by saying "I'm sorry if my post offends you". You had not posted anything in this thread prior to that post, so you could not possibly have been referring to my responses to anything you had already said up until that point. The only thing you could've been doing is speculating as to how I would feel about the post you had just written. And your post itself says it all: you believed that I would be offended by it, and by posting it nonetheless, you intended that offense. Here's the rub, while the rest of your post is only just barely offensive in the objective sense, and didn't actually offend me all that much, your INTENT to offend did indeed offend. I'm sure most people would feel the same in my position, given that what is most insulting about an insult is the intent and desire to be insulting, not the actual contents of the insult itself.

There is nothing wrong with either what I did, or how I did it. The same can not be said for you uggron.
 
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Ok, this is starting to seem like a giant pile of misunderstanding. Reading your posts I still feel like your upset more than you should be, though you claim to be fine. I am willing to believe that I'm just misinterpreting your words, because you seem to be misinterpreting mine. I never wanted to insult you (no seriously, I mean it) and have made every effort to be as polite as I could. Again, if anything I said or didn't say or just whatever offended you, or didn't, or I don't know I'm just sorta spewing words now, I apologize. Sincerely. I know it's hard to tell on the internet when someone is sincere or not. But I honestly mean that I'm sorry. Something about the way you write your posts gets into my head. Maybe it's that your posts are always so long; in my mind it seems unnecessary and makes me feel like you're overreacting. But perhaps assuming you were overreacting was stupid and more than a little ironic.

Please accept my apology. (Or at least lets take this conversation somewhere else. I feel kinda awkward arguing on a bug report forum.)
 
If you felt that my initial posts were too long, you needn't have read nor responded to them. They were, after all, addressed to first to the devs and subsequently to Megaron, not to you. As for "arguing on a bug report forum", you were the initiator of the conversation between the two of us, not me. I find it interesting that you seem to enjoy apologizing for insulting me, just before proceeding to yet again insult me. You did it in your first post by saying "sorry if my post offends you" while ironically admitting at the same time that you realized your post was offensive but decided to post it anyways. Now you ask me to accept your "sincere" apology for offending and misunderstanding me, then immediately attempt to belittle my position and dismiss the comments I have made thus far by insinuating that they were "awkward" and did not belong in this thread. If you sincerely believe that your actions warrant an apology of any description, then you merely need to stop repeating them. Likewise, if you feel that this conversation is a waste of time, as you have insinuated in more than one post, then I encourage you not to continue posting.
 
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I do feel very much feel this has been a waste of time; I guess I just thought we would eventually come to some sort of agreement. I guess I'll take your advice then, and not post anymore after. I know you still don't believe me when I say this, but I really am sorry and never ever meant to insult you. I guess a part of me thought that was I better than the average guy on the internet; thought that I could stop arguments instead of starting them. You sure taught me a lesson there (that was not sarcasm).

Bye now I guess... :S

Edit: I wrote this post in like 3 minutes, and in hindsight, I don't think I did a good job with it. I'll leave it up unedited though. To clarify, my original post was partially because a sense an argument between you and Megaron in the offing. I somehow though I could help things. In short, I am an idiot. That said, I still don't agree with the way you have been posting, but I really should just now have said anything and I see that now. I really truly am sorry. I'd say that a thousand times if I thought it would help.
 
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