Bio-Ascension is unplayable, Machine Age makes it more obvious

[Caeric]

Without Polymelic or Budding, Genetic can't beat Modularity (or even Synths) now, though both of those need to pay a small pop tax on assembly.

Genetic gets Exotic Metabolism, Fertile, +20% from techs (7.875 growth) and Vats plus Vat Grown (5.625), for a total of 13.5

Machines get Mass Produced, Monoform, 4 Roboticists (with 50% extra base output) plus a Synth ruler, and 20% from techs (plus another 20% from Rapid Replicators, though it's probably not fair to count that). (4*2*1.5+1)*1.45*1.2=21.06. If they really wanted growth they could also grow organic pops for another 5.85, but those pops won't get their absurd +60% output from Dark Matter Engines, so they probably won't want that.

Even with Vat Grown and Polymelic, genetic would need 120 pops per planet to match Modularity's growth. And if Genetic gets Polymelic, then Modularity gets the scavenger bot trait (another 50% growth that's additive with the other two traits).

They also both have agendas and a few council positions or civics which boost assembly/growth, but those are temporary so it gets weird.

I've probably forgotten something genetic gets (don't have a save in 3.12), but 13.5 vs. 21.06 (with another 5.85 if you really want it) is a very wide gap.

I see, I haven't played much since machine age dropped so I didn't realize modularity pop assembly was that crazy.

Unfortunately it seems we have to wait until next year before genetic or psionic get the machine age treatment.

 

[Sian]

Numbers aren’t quite fair, since you forgot to account for medical workers giving +Growth% and +OrganicAssembly%, which if we actually want to count everything, should count as well

 

[Abdulijubjub]

Numbers aren’t quite fair, since you forgot to account for medical workers giving +Growth% and +OrganicAssembly%, which if we actually want to count everything, should count as well

You should not* use medical workers except for habitability and amenities. If you do not need both, they are not good.

But even if you count them... 4 medical workers add +20% to growth and assembly. 15.3 is not much closer (and, notably, you're investing 4 pops to produce less than a single roboticist).

*Edit: unless you're a pharma state corporation.

 

[cryptkeeper]

You should not use medical workers except for habitability and amenities. If you do not need both, they are not good.

But even if you count them... 4 medical workers add +20% to growth and assembly. 15.3 is not much closer (and, notably, you're investing 4 pops to produce less than a single roboticist).

Unless you megacorp with pharma state, then they are good to put on every planet.

 

[-Marauder-]

You should not* use medical workers except for habitability and amenities. If you do not need both, they are not good.

But even if you count them... 4 medical workers add +20% to growth and assembly. 15.3 is not much closer (and, notably, you're investing 4 pops to produce less than a single roboticist).

*Edit: unless you're a pharma state corporation.

Pharma State Corporation with 50% boost makes them a surprisingly good job.

 

[KarsusTheMad]

I've probably forgotten something genetic gets (don't have a save in 3.12), but 13.5 vs. 21.06 (with another 5.85 if you really want it) is a very wide gap.

Machine Age added, with the Cosmogenesis Crisis path, the Robot Manufacturing Nexus and Robot Quantum Production Nexus, providing 2 and 5 Roboticist jobs respectively for an upkeep of 1.5 living metal. You can spam these on a planet up to its building cap and effectively have an additional 44 to 110 Mechanical pop assembly.

Conversely, you can build Molecular-Revitalization Institute and Bioregeneration Institute that produce 4 and 6 medical workers each. This can also be spammed, but I imagine it only more cements your point. The gap is impossibly wide and should be addressed in some capacity.

 

[Abdulijubjub]

Machine Age added, with the Cosmogenesis Crisis path, the Robot Manufacturing Nexus and Robot Quantum Production Nexus, providing 2 and 5 Roboticist jobs respectively for an upkeep of 1.5 living metal. You can spam these on a planet up to its building cap and effectively have an additional 44 to 110 Mechanical pop assembly.

Conversely, you can build Molecular-Revitalization Institute and Bioregeneration Institute that produce 4 and 6 medical workers each. This can also be spammed, but I imagine it only more cements your point. The gap is impossibly wide and should be addressed in some capacity.

Cosmogenesis is broken enough in other ways that you've just thrown balance out the window, once you get to that point.

But yeah, the assembly gap is enormous there too.

 

[MadCow94]

Unless you megacorp with pharma state, then they are good to put on every planet.

I wish there was a non-megacorp pharma state civic. I <3 it.

 

[Dr. B]

I wish there was a non-megacorp pharma state civic. I <3 it.

There is now. It is called Natural Design.

 

[MadCow94]

There is now. It is called Natural Design.

I'm afraid I don't see what Natural Design has to do with Pharma State. They're basically total opposites, and natural design doesn't allow bio ascension.

 

[Dr. B]

I'm afraid I don't see what Natural Design has to do with Pharma State. They're basically total opposites, and natural design doesn't allow bio ascension.

Well yes they are very different indeed.

However they both enhance Medical Workers, they both provide extra Medical Workers and buffed up Medical Workers. I think they are the only civics that encourage you to actually build Gene Clinics, and that is something they have in common that nothing else in the game provides.

 

[Incompetent]

You should not* use medical workers except for habitability and amenities. If you do not need both, they are not good.

But even if you count them... 4 medical workers add +20% to growth and assembly. 15.3 is not much closer (and, notably, you're investing 4 pops to produce less than a single roboticist).

*Edit: unless you're a pharma state corporation.

Now that Cybernetics has the Augmentor job, it would be cool for Genetic traditions to instead apply a buff to Medical Workers to make them worth employing again. It feels weird to have a pathway of genetic specialization -> traits and preference modding make habitability a non-issue -> time to tear down all the Gene Clinics.

 

[cryptkeeper]

Now that Cybernetics has the Augmentor job, it would be cool for Genetic traditions to instead apply a buff to Medical Workers to make them worth employing again. It feels weird to have a pathway of genetic specialization -> traits and preference modding make habitability a non-issue -> time to tear down all the Gene Clinics.

What bonus should Medical workers give to Bio ascension pops ? I feel resources from jobs would be boring. A interesting effect might be just being able to improve the special BIO traits themselves. Example: Each medical worker gives a 5% buff to say erudite increasing resources from researchers per medical worker.

 

[Sian]

What bonus should Medical workers give to Bio ascension pops ? I feel resources from jobs would be boring. A interesting effect might be just being able to improve the special BIO traits themselves. Example: Each medical worker gives a 5% buff to say erudite increasing resources from researchers per medical worker.

+5% growth/OrganicAssembly per advanced trait of the species growing?

 

[Incompetent]

What bonus should Medical workers give to Bio ascension pops ? I feel resources from jobs would be boring. A interesting effect might be just being able to improve the special BIO traits themselves. Example: Each medical worker gives a 5% buff to say erudite increasing resources from researchers per medical worker.

I actually think it would be interesting to boost all biological traits, not just those specifically associated with the ascension. You wouldn't want to go overboard, but say "+10% effect of positive biological traits" would be a solid buff (so with 4 Medical Workers, now Docile gives -14% sprawl instead of -10%, Existential Iteroparity gives +42% growth during war instead of +30%, and so on). If the ascension gave more trait picks, that would also increase the more creative options. Basically make Genetic ascension more about "genetic optimization" in a broad sense, rather than specifically focused on the advanced traits.

 

[Nevars]

Nah bio need to become the king of growth again.

So how about if you bio ascended, medical worker will have additional 2 flat bio pop assembly.