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Nov 22, 2010
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hello CO dev.

I have a magoer suggestion the buses need to have passenger carrring amount inceased to close 70-100 passengers when I play the game I must put 15 buese just on one long line the incircle the city. because of the low passenger amount for the buses in the game 12,18,20, 24, 29 are not making the grade for bus uses in the game



aleksanderIV

if any one has the same problem post here please
 
Seriously, there is absolutely no need for this. CiM population is much lower than real Vienna population.
 
Gah, this 'problem' has been addressed like 1000 times already. The bus capacity is lower because the population of the city is also lower than in real life. If I remember correctly, it's 20k or something in Vienna and 30k in Berlin.
 
Rautatie said:
Gah, this 'problem' has been addressed like 1000 times already. The bus capacity is lower because the population of the city is also lower than in real life. If I remember correctly, it's 20k or something in Vienna and 30k in Berlin.
Click to expand...

Small cities still run big buses.
if the route calls for it.

Even with 20,000 population it still only takes 8 bodies to fill up the bus and 8 bodies is nothing. I've got a single stop in an industrial park that generates people so fast that a route with only 3 stops and half a dozen buses on it can't keep up with it. The last stop is constantly neglected.
Capacities just aren't appropriate for what a single station can generate. I've got a central metro platform with over 300 people waiting on it, that line has 10 trains.
It's also got 3 stations adjacent to it for getting to other parts of the city, including a couple shared areas, but everyone congregates on a single platform.

If we were to genuinely believe that the population was only 20 k, we'd never be running a metro in it.
 
Is it that hard to understand that entire system is scaled down for gaming purposes because our computers wouldn't be able to run a simulation of a 2 million people big city? Population of Vienna was reduced 100 times, bus size was reduced 5 times.
 
delra said:
Is it that hard to understand that entire system is scaled down for gaming purposes because our computers wouldn't be able to run a simulation of a 2 million people big city? Population of Vienna was reduced 100 times, bus size was reduced 5 times.
Click to expand...

Simcity and Cities XL both did it, and they both run full and very detailed transit systems on top of everything else they do.
Including individual entities traveling to and from work.

and yes, it is that hard to understand. Because according to your numbers, I have 23000 people currently waiting at 1 subway station..???
and my train can only carry 200.
 
Play more. It was my impression at first too and then when I started building better lines (and managing them better) I realized there's no real need for bigger buses. Having came through this I want to spare you time wasted on asking rebalance here.

You can't get everyone where they belong with just one train, you need a solution for the entire city, solution that typically should be bases around a subway system with at least two dozens trains.
 
delra said:
Play more. It was my impression at first too and then when I started building better lines (and managing them better) I realized there's no real need for bigger buses. Having came through this I want to spare you time wasted on asking rebalance here.

You can't get everyone where they belong with just one train, you need a solution for the entire city, solution that typically should be bases around a subway system with at least two dozens trains.
Click to expand...
I've got 3 lines, and 20 trains.
Most of my subway stations have over 200 people waiting at them. However, this is a failure of the game itself as well.
I have 2 lines that go from train station to downtown. they take different paths, but cross there. One is a little longer than the other. It's busy for other reasons, but at the train station it only gets a small amount of traffic while the other station has 250 people at it. While it's technically closer, the wait makes it signficantly longer, they should realize this and go to the other station for a faster overall trip.

Unless you're going to start running lines for a single stop, there isn't much else to be done.

You might want to do us all a favor and cut the condescending attitude while you're at it. If you're such an educated guru why don't you enlighten us all to this magical route management you've invented.
 
crossmr said:
Simcity and Cities XL both did it
Click to expand...
They didn't. In SC and CXL the roads/trails and buildings had capacities - but not the vehicles! And, in those games not every single resident and vehicle was simulated, but households and ways. It's a big difference. So a 1.000.000 population city only had a serveral thousand households got simulated on streets/lines without vehicle simulation.
 
klischee said:
They didn't. In SC and CXL the roads/trails and buildings had capacities - but not the vehicles! And, in those games not every single resident and vehicle was simulated, but households and ways. It's a big difference. So a 1.000.000 population city only had a serveral thousand households got simulated on streets/lines without vehicle simulation.
Click to expand...

in the latest Cities XL you actually lay out routes for buses and the like. They have capacities, coverage areas, etc. Houses have multiple work places. That does it on the scale for millions of residents if you build it that large.
 
100 passengers per a bus is too much for CiM. The developers have already said that there was quite an important meeting about the capacity. Well, as for me, the capacity is too little, but I understand, that it is proportional to real numbers, but numbers bigger in 1.5-2 times look much more attractive...
Or there's another solution - the vechicles can take a bit more people, than they are meant to, which will lead to less speed and bigger chances of breaking down.
 
Metro: 90 max passengers capacity (or so)

Without accurate knowledge, I'd say it is like 2 metro cars or wagons capacity in real life (or even only one)

It does not matter actually because the point I am heading for is why not ask for bigger metro capacity? Why only buses?

As it was suggested, a 1:10 scale is likely to be used. 1 person in game is actually ten people in real life scale.

On the small map, the pool of passengers is something between 1500 and 2000.

It is fair to guess that the game does aim to represent the whole city population but only the segment of population that is likely to accept public transportation.

Why overload a game with irrelevant data? The game is well thought for what I have been able to test.

People should strive to avoid coming with first hand impression without even bothering reading other people's impressions.
 
Yes, Cities XL gives us ability to built routes, which are used by peolpe, but in CiM gives us much more options. In addition, it has big problems with subways, and we even can't see the actual number of passengers in a single bus. The system used there is abstractive.

By the way, if a real city had only subways, that wouldn't lead to anytheing good at all. ;D The aim of creating a transport net is to provide equal load for all types of transport, e.g., buses and trams take part of potential metro passengers or even duplicate the metro by doing more stops, that lets to take a part of metro passengers. You have to create duplicating lines to prevent gathering 200+ people at one stop.
 
crossmr said:
I've got 3 lines, and 20 trains.
Most of my subway stations have over 200 people waiting at them. However, this is a failure of the game itself as well.
I have 2 lines that go from train station to downtown. they take different paths, but cross there. One is a little longer than the other. It's busy for other reasons, but at the train station it only gets a small amount of traffic while the other station has 250 people at it. While it's technically closer, the wait makes it signficantly longer, they should realize this and go to the other station for a faster overall trip.

Unless you're going to start running lines for a single stop, there isn't much else to be done.

You might want to do us all a favor and cut the condescending attitude while you're at it. If you're such an educated guru why don't you enlighten us all to this magical route management you've invented.
Click to expand...

Multiple hubs performance is difficult to assess. I've tried them and failed to get a satisfying result. The limitation is probably that passengers do not re-assess their itinerary until they got disatisfied.

This said, I dont see why 200 people at a metro station is a failure. It takes only three metro trains to clean that and fast.

Something that might happen is that metro trains do not unload enough from one station to another.
If the line is composed with five stops and passengers are mostly interested in travelling from start to final stops, indeed you have an issue as the metro wont unload their capacity.

I'll look into the network design before claiming that it is a game design issue.

A well designed line is one line that load and unload a significant fraction of the vehicle capacity at most of the stops in the line.

If you manage to get that type of lines then jamming is not an issue. And neither is spacing between vehicles. If a vehicle loads and unloads a meaningful fraction of its capacity 4 times out of six on a line, no jamming and

Building up this kind of lines is possible.
 
buses and trams take part of potential metro passengers or even duplicate the metro by doing more stops, that lets to take a part of metro passengers. You have to create duplicating lines to prevent gathering 200+ people at one stop.
Click to expand...
I've duplicated parts of lines, people pick a single line and tend to stick with it.

This said, I dont see why 200 people at a metro station is a failure. It takes only three metro trains to clean that and fast.

Something that might happen is that metro trains do not unload enough from one station to another.
If the line is composed with five stops and passengers are mostly interested in travelling from start to final stops, indeed you have an issue as the metro wont unload their capacity.
Click to expand...
Obviously and any good transit system will have lines where people stay on at various lengths. We can't guess where and when these people are going to get on and off with these lines unless we limit them to only 2 stops each.
Sometimes a train might empty entirely, sometimes 5 people might get off.
 
I think the developers should concentrate on things which aren't to modificate by users (hopefully) easily, like the traffic KI, Bugs and core programming. Capacities are just a detail surely modders can change if the game is released.

Personally, I think the caps are okay if the lines would be more efficient (lesser damages, keeping distances, no traffic collapses when busses or trams are used, ... just see Suggestions Thread.
 
All values all scaled down. Do you really think a train with six cars can only carry 90 people? In Japan it's more like 90 people per seat! I think the values are fine. In general subway > tram > bus works just fine. Of course there are some lines you can't handle with a bus-line, just like in real-life. If you use more busses than stations on a line you should seriously consider replacing the bus line with a tram or subway line.

In my opinion you shuold use busses in CiM to connect the villages and small homes to tram or subway lines leading through the inner city.
 
The point is that there are reduced scales for time, distance and population in the game. Yes, in real life busses might carry 80 people, but they also take maybe one or two hours to complete a route with 5-10 minute journeys between stops and average waiting times of 10 minutes for passengers. If you increase the capacity of the busses then you need to adjust the other scales somehow to compensate, eg. making the distances bigger, making the busses run slower, or making people walk much faster.

If the game was a totally realistic transport simulation, it would also be dull as dishwater. Similarly, even if if was technically possible to model a full-scale 4-million population city, that wouldn't automatically make the game more fun. For Berlin you would have to build >300 metro stations and thousands of bus and tram stops. Maybe a bit complex for a game?

I think the devs have got it right. For the niche who want more realism, I hope the devs give you the option to make your own mods. For now they should probably focus on other issues.
 
JimboBleargh said:
If the game was a totally realistic transport simulation, it would also be dull as dishwater. Similarly, even if if was technically possible to model a full-scale 4-million population city, that wouldn't automatically make the game more fun. For Berlin you would have to build >300 metro stations and thousands of bus and tram stops. Maybe a bit complex for a game?
Click to expand...

I live in Berlin and I do not really want to rebuild the entire network. It is just to much to manage.

Just look at the maps:
Trains: http://www.bvg.de/index.php/de/binaries/asset/download/20909/file/1-1
Tram: http://www.bvg.de/index.php/de/binaries/asset/download/21111/file/1-1
not on the map: +1300 busses.
 
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