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No room for admin ideas I can agree with... but if you're not building up your temples and constables in the first 100 years of gameplay you're pretty much doing something very wrong. Unless if you're going for a fast 1400s expansion game very typical of the Ottomans.

My experience, yes, i do not need the admin buildings in the first 100 years of game. After my second national Idea you start teching up your diplo tree, mostly because he is now cheaper than your diplo ideas and they are nearly finished. And all provinces have now your primary culture. So I increase the trade income over diplo points.

Why not unsing temple? Temple cost 52 gold, it is the same amount like a armory. It is simple a decision, more manpower and recovery versus more income. I take always the first one with culture shifting. Here a calculation, a temple brings 1 gold over 1 year., without modification, 0.0825 gold per month.

The lowest possible province, a 1 taxe base province brings you with your religion and culture 1 gold per year. It gets normally this modiication on tax base, -33% non accept (-15% for accept), -20% for relegion. Not only for gold, even for manpower, revolt risk, etc.. So if you remove it, you get more income as a temple. You can build temple and the other adm buildings later in game, when you do not know what to do with your income. My first 20-30 buildings are armory or update of armory, after this I build 40-50 level 2 trade buildings. And than, what i want.

With every nation.
 
Sorry about taking so long. After some testing, I think I figured it out. You said you were a large colonial power. I'm going to assume a massive manpower pool, correct. 200-300K or more?

In that case, you're manpower regeneration per month is simply larger than the attrition you're taking. Even if you send in 100,000 men and take 1,000 casualties per month, your making back far more. So I'll definitely concede that against extremely large countries with very high manpower, it does lose a bit of it's luster. That being said, I do think the other bonuses in the line are still very nice, and that it is great if you find yourself going up against midsized or smaller nations. It might not kill off the Spains, Frances or Russia's of the world,. but it can help with their smaller allies or vassals. And it does combo nicely with Offensive for super leaders who can march huge stacks through enemy territory very quickly :)
My manpower was actually an order of magnitude up from that.

But I will concede that Defensive is very nice (in part because Improved Foraging has got to be broken, since I'm pretty sure that it isn't supposed to halve the weight of your units, just the amount of attrition they take when they do take attrition), especially if you're in a high-attrition area like India. The faster sieges are pretty neat, too, especially when augmented with an increased artillery proportion.

And yes, the correct answer to "Offensive or Defensive?" is both.
 
Fun game here.

Genoa. Warmongered right at the start. Got 200 Aggro from neighbors.

Took Religious, Plutocracy, Diplo while idling basically to wait for people to stop hating me.

The relations bonusses from diplo and religion accidently made me Emperor of the HRE.
 
My experience, yes, i do not need the admin buildings in the first 100 years of game. After my second national Idea you start teching up your diplo tree, mostly because he is now cheaper than your diplo ideas and they are nearly finished. And all provinces have now your primary culture. So I increase the trade income over diplo points.

Why not unsing temple? Temple cost 52 gold, it is the same amount like a armory. It is simple a decision, more manpower and recovery versus more income. I take always the first one with culture shifting. Here a calculation, a temple brings 1 gold over 1 year., without modification, 0.0825 gold per month.

The lowest possible province, a 1 taxe base province brings you with your religion and culture 1 gold per year. It gets normally this modiication on tax base, -33% non accept (-15% for accept), -20% for relegion. Not only for gold, even for manpower, revolt risk, etc.. So if you remove it, you get more income as a temple. You can build temple and the other adm buildings later in game, when you do not know what to do with your income. My first 20-30 buildings are armory or update of armory, after this I build 40-50 level 2 trade buildings. And than, what i want.

With every nation.

A temple doesn't cost 52 gold. Gold is irrelevant in the game. It cost 10 admin points which is INSANE. It is simply not profitable to build building compared to buying advisors, ideas and tech.
 
A temple doesn't cost 52 gold. Gold is irrelevant in the game. It cost 10 admin points which is INSANE. It is simply not profitable to build building compared to buying advisors, ideas and tech.
Temples give +1 tax bases, so it makes sense to build them. Especially when a) they only cost 40 gp, and b) when your ADM MPs are 9-11. Enough to advance one, two tech and have some extra for buildings.

Yours,
AdL

P.S. taxe income is in direct correlation to accepted culture.
 
As Italy I have every possible building in every possible province, and I'm the tech leader. What's all this about 'not worth it'?
 
This thread isn't really about buildings costing MP, which has been done to death and back again, but about the best ideas so....

I really think religious ideas looks good on paper if you are going to convert to Protestant or Reformed since it gives you the holy war casus beli. On the other hand, it will also make everyone hate u and make it harder to avoid being curbstomped by other catholic countries like France. I'll probably test it out in my new Brandenburg game and see how it goes.
 
Personally, I go pure military build with 3 floater ideas, usually Dilpo for reduced core cost, Espionage for the increased blockade and other goodies, and the last one usually doesn't matter, likely something that gives a colonist. Full military ideas is just so powerful I have a France game where I had it out with an equal tech Netherlands... but I had all 5 military ideas completed. I demolished the Netherlands, it wasn't even close.... My manpower is 6 times larger than the second competitor... I cannot see any combination of ideas in the other trees stopping a nation with full military. So, personally, I just ignore the other trees and focus on military... "Oh you like trading... well I hope you can afford 150k mercs... and I hope they have 135%+ Disc, and +35%dmg from Cavalry, 10% to Infantry/Artillery. Plus forced march, overall better generals, reduced maintenance for my army..."

You better have some serious cash to stand against what military ideas can do. I've yet to see a non-focused military nation be able to properly push back a pure military nation. (all things being equal of course)
 
Doesn't the best ideas vary with the country you're playing?

If you go administrative ideas with Sweden for example you can hire mercenaries at half the cost of normal recruits and at the same upkeep. It takes 17 days to recruit them and since mercenaries don't drain manpower it's pretty much bye bye Russia. :p

That idea tree would probably be useless for countries like France and Russia though.
 
Personally, I go pure military build with 3 floater ideas, usually Dilpo for reduced core cost, Espionage for the increased blockade and other goodies, and the last one usually doesn't matter, likely something that gives a colonist. Full military ideas is just so powerful I have a France game where I had it out with an equal tech Netherlands... but I had all 5 military ideas completed. I demolished the Netherlands, it wasn't even close.... My manpower is 6 times larger than the second competitor... I cannot see any combination of ideas in the other trees stopping a nation with full military. So, personally, I just ignore the other trees and focus on military... "Oh you like trading... well I hope you can afford 150k mercs... and I hope they have 135%+ Disc, and +35%dmg from Cavalry, 10% to Infantry/Artillery. Plus forced march, overall better generals, reduced maintenance for my army..."

You better have some serious cash to stand against what military ideas can do. I've yet to see a non-focused military nation be able to properly push back a pure military nation. (all things being equal of course)


If you play as France you are pretty much guaranteed to be a military powerhouse regardless of the ideas you pick. Even without taking a single military idea you probably have a very good chance at winning a war where the numbers are equal due to your national ideas. Taking 3 military ideas probably allows you to kill the entire world though so its not a bad plan :p
 
For Russia:
1. Diplomatic idea group is absolutely the best and must be picked first
2. Trade idea group. I apply this group second because I am freezing my trade tech level on 3, to westernize faster. And Russia really needs this 3 traders to use all her trade potential.
3. Religious group is second main group for Russia

4-6. Expansion/Quality/Offense
7. Economic