Baltic focus trees are extremely overpowered,What do you think?

[Nyaruko]

They can get 10 civ + 16 mil factories by focus tree,And i didn't calculate factories i can build and i can conquer.
If you surrender,You can get 11 extra off-map factories.
As we know,generic focus tree only provide 7 factories,and still powerful!
Providing 5 factories should be far enough for world conquest.
What is your opinion?

 

[CaptinObvious]

might be a cynical take but....

I am at peace with totally OP althist/totally fiction minor focus trees; I mean the devs have to make money somehow and pickpocketing nationalist wankers seems fine enough for me, as long as it does not infect the historic major's paths

this is basically how I feel rn

 

[TempestM]

might be a cynical take but....

I am at peace with totally OP althist/totally fiction minor focus trees; I mean the devs have to make money somehow and pickpocketing nationalist wankers seems fine enough for me, as long as it does not infect the historic major's paths

Their OP part doesn't come form althist paths, their industry tree is what makes them OP and it's always available. And most of the times it just means SU or Germany get those

 

[Metz]

Maybe they should get less free factories from the focus trees. If they want a big boost to their economy, they need to side with major powers or play them off against each other. Not all Baltic states should be able to get a lot of investment from all the majors. They should compete with each other. If Germany doesn't want to invest in Latvia or Estonia because it already invested too much in Lithuania then Latvia and Estonia should try to get the UK or USSR to invest in them. The more they invest, the more chance they have of changing your country's ruling party and taking away your sovereignty.

 

[TempestM]

Yeah it's ridiculous that asking Axis or Allies (don't even have to be in faction with them) for help gives you less than just "do our own work home" that gives you around 12 factories and mils, and 2 research slots, with no prerequisites.


Meanwhile Soviet Union industry focus tree: Best I can do is 2 factories, and then when you get 100 factories here's also 5% consumer goods

 

[Nyaruko]

Their OP part doesn't come form althist paths, their industry tree is what makes them OP and it's always available. And most of the times it just means SU or Germany get those

Yes,Even Germany can't get 26 factories from their focuses.

 

[Jays298]

Their OP part doesn't come form althist paths, their industry tree is what makes them OP and it's always available. And most of the times it just means SU or Germany get those

Vultures picking on a juicy prime rib.

Germany almost doubles its naval production basically by taking the Polish ports that NSB powers up.

7-10 civs sounds expensive but it depends on how many focuses and over how long.

But you can also consider how painfully slow it is to build anything without at least 15 free civs. Italy for instance starts painfully slow. Same for Poland.

If a player is going to run them it's fine.

If it buffs USSR a little it's ok. But probably buffs Germany because USSR can't hold the baltics typically for a while.

 

[Nyaruko]

Maybe they should get less free factories from the focus trees. If they want a big boost to their economy, they need to side with major powers or play them off against each other. Not all Baltic states should be able to get a lot of investment from all the majors. They should compete with each other. If Germany doesn't want to invest in Latvia or Estonia because it already invested too much in Lithuania then Latvia and Estonia should try to get the UK or USSR to invest in them. The more they invest, the more chance they have of changing your country's ruling party and taking away your sovereignty.

Imagine a scenario:
If all the Baltic countries get those 26 factories then unified,There will be an industrial power that surpasses established countries such as France in a few years.No aggressive expansion required.

 

[TempestM]

7-10 civs sounds expensive but it depends on how many focuses and over how long.

13 mils, 8 factories, +10% mil construction speed, infrastructure and bunkers, plus a bunch of research bonuses in 9 focuses.
Also can do a little sidestep and grab 2 research slots in a row for 2 more focuses.
Also additional focus for aviation bonuses and dockyards focus.
Also can grab additional 4-5 focuses from Axis or Allies, weaker but still strong, can either switch you to war eco/total mob and give free medium tank division, or give -5% CG and off-map factories

AND on top of that, your neighbors will do the same focuses, which means if you wait a little and form Baltics (which is easy) and core it, you double-triple what you have.

I already did "Esti is Scandi" and "This Achievement is Cheese" and I'm certain that this industry makes it trivial. The only hard one will probably be war with Germany, which I haven't done yet. Those are probably the most powerful industry focuses in the game.

 

[Nyaruko]

Vultures picking on a juicy prime rib.

Germany almost doubles its naval production basically by taking the Polish ports that NSB powers up.

7-10 civs sounds expensive but it depends on how many focuses and over how long.

But you can also consider how painfully slow it is to build anything without at least 15 free civs. Italy for instance starts painfully slow. Same for Poland.

If a player is going to run them it's fine.

If it buffs USSR a little it's ok. But probably buffs Germany because USSR can't hold the baltics typically for a while.

If Estonia’s industry is weak, that's normal,realistic.
If they grow fast and able to chase majors without aggressive expansion,that's not normal...

 

[Jays298]

13 mils, 8 factories, +10% mil construction speed, infrastructure and bunkers, plus a bunch of research bonuses in 9 focuses.
Also can do a little sidestep and grab 2 research slots in a row for 2 more focuses.
Also additional focus for aviation bonuses and dockyards focus.
Also can grab additional 4-5 focuses from Axis or Allies, weaker but still strong, can either switch you to war eco/total mob and give free medium tank division, or give -5% CG and off-map factories

AND on top of that, your neighbors will do the same focuses, which means if you wait a little and form Baltics (which is easy) and core it, you double-triple what you have.

I already did "Esti is Scandi" and "This Achievement is Cheese" and I'm certain that this industry makes it trivial. The only hard one will probably be war with Germany, which I haven't done yet

That makes sense for the meme games and for players that want to do it. Though at the same time it would make alt history single player even more unbalanced.

Though doesn't the USSR typically justify annex at least one of the three before the AI can turn it into a super regional power?

If Estonia’s industry is weak, that's normal,realistic.
If they grow fast and able to chase majors without aggressive expansion,that's not normal...

It doesn't sound like it can change a major. Off the top of my head I think italy starts with like 28 mils and 50 IC.

And it sounds like the Baltics could do about that, maybe more, and be a major threat to sweden or norway etc or poland.

But basically they'd be a major minor.

Yes it is unrealistic. But I think it's what everyone wants is a "give xyz minor country a path to domination."

So you can do that snow ball approach if you really want.

In the German playthru I didn't even notice anything about the Baltics. In the Poland one...they tended towards civil wars.

 

[jacekgk]

Another thing that industry is really cool, but there's no one, how could hold these guns, even if You know, what You're doing (except Polish-Lithuania - polish manpower plus lithuanian production are a crazy combination). My best results was circa about 500k men army - not a little, but not to huge for doing something crucial alone.
I think, here is a good potential for these countries - lots of alliance abuse, to making what You need. Or, if You play other countries (like Poland or USSR) - taking them to take over these factories and equipment.

 

[TempestM]

That makes sense for the meme games and for players that want to do it.

For players that want to do what? That's not a meme political path, it's just their industry focuses, they don't have other paths there

 

[Nyaruko]

That makes sense for the meme games and for players that want to do it. Though at the same time it would make alt history single player even more unbalanced.

Though doesn't the USSR typically justify annex at least one of the three before the AI can turn it into a super regional power?



It doesn't sound like it can change a major. Off the top of my head I think italy starts with like 28 mils and 50 IC.

And it sounds like the Baltics could do about that, maybe more, and be a major threat to sweden or norway etc or poland.

But basically they'd be a major minor.

Yes it is unrealistic. But I think it's what everyone wants is a "give xyz minor country a path to domination."

So you can do that snow ball approach if you really want.

In the German playthru I didn't even notice anything about the Baltics. In the Poland one...they tended towards civil wars.

"Yes it is unrealistic. But I think it's what everyone wants is a "give xyz minor country a path to domination."

There are many countries harder than Estonia, such as Bhutan, New Zealand, Tannu Tuva, etc.But no one has ever complained about 'Bhutan is too weak!'
Actually the situation in Estonia is pretty good,they can join Axis,not like Poland.The Soviet Union is the only enemy, unlike Poland who has to face the Soviet Union and Germany at the same time.
They are also a coastal country, which means that they can use paratroopers to drop countries such as Netherlands and France.

 

[Gyrvendal]

Maybe they should change at least some of those factories to being off-map. That way invaders don't get them all upon annexation and it doesn't hurt the country itself.

 

[Iskulya]

Agreed, it's definitely a bit much. Power creep is expected with minors, that's been always been the case, but this really is too much. Compare the Baltic states focuses to the commonwealth ones from TFV or even Hungary and Romania in DOD.

Maybe they should change at least some of those factories to being off-map. That way invaders don't get them all upon annexation and it doesn't hurt the country itself.

This is actually already the case with the factories gained from the allied investment branch, except for the dockyards.

 

[pheonicia]

Meh, the baltics have the manpower of an understaffed kindergarten and the strategic depth of a puddle. And then they just don't have any real resource reserves and all your trade has to go directly past either germany or the ussr. You can't sit back and pump out planes like hungary or fuel hundreds of tanks and planes like Romania. Yeah, they're better than TfV focus trees but so is every other focus tree in the game since it was the first dlc.

 

[Casko]

I feel the Baltic industry is not OP per say due to manpower balancing it...

But it feels exceedingly OP due to being compared to Poland, and USSR, which, are much larger nations, with worse industry focus trees. (and to lesser extend Germany)

 

[qer]

Also one thing that need to be considered is how they affect the general balance of the game when playing another nation. If I don't care about the Baltic, but I want to play historical Soviet Union, you are basically getting tons of free equipment and industry from the three countries that really shouldn't be there.

 

[Silverhood]

I haven't found it to be such a big deal. In my most recent Poland game, I was waiting for Lithuania to finish those focus choices before annexing, but it was already 1939 and they hadn't done all of them yet, and WW2 was about to kick off, so I had to annex them and snap up Latvia quickly, before someone else grabbed them.

If it is such a big issue, then scale down the number of factories and grant a bonus to factory output and construction speed instead.