AGCEEP: HRE Integrity

[unmerged(40707)]

Triggers simplification

I suggest to rework all triggers and avoid releasing a country after expirydate in revolt.txt and/or after any event involving inheritance.

Only remaining special case is Brandenburg that will be released if Kingdom of Prussia is no more.

Provinces will not be ceded to countries located outside HRE (especially Denmark and Sweden). In this case, owner of the province will just keep the province and original country will not be released => series 5000025 and 5000047 will thus be removed.

Two missing series:
Holstein ceded to OLD if event = 247002 #OLD: Oldenburg inherits Holstein
Oldenburg ceded to SHL if event = 279010 #SHL: Holstein inherits Oldenburg

 

[Dark Scipio]

What do you think about events to ,,Protect" the HRE from outside invasion?

I thought about events like:

trigger = Not HRE country holds an (important?/Capital?) HRE province.
who = ,,Invader"
Text: The nations of the HRE rally around the cause of keeping the HRE intact.

actions:
A - Make consession, sell back (Release as a vassal, or secede Province, Relations a small plus, the nearer the more the realtions improves, medium improvment for emperor, +50 Gold, Monarch DIP +1 for 24 Months, +1 for 18 months, -1 BB)
B - Negotiate to hold our aquired holdings (-250 gold, -6 Diplomats)
C- Ignore it. (All HRE nations gain a casus belli against the invader, Relation go down (from -200 for neighbors/emperor/electros to -20 from distant/not german HRE members; +/-0 for allies of the invader, +2 BB)

That should be worse, if an elector was annexed.

Perhaps some events to increase revolt risk in that province (+5 for 6 months, +5 for 12 months, +3 for 50 months, +3 for 120 monts, +2 for 1200 months).

Just to simulate, that it wouldn`t be so easy to destroy the HRE members one after another without the others intervening.

 

[Garbon]

I think traditionally that we've been wary of implementing such events. That's why we only have this pared down version that works within the HRE.

 

[Dark Scipio]

And this tradtion has a cause?

 

[Garbon]

And this tradtion has a cause?

Yeah, we don't want to force independence. The further along we go down that road, the more it becomes apparent that we should just have events that force history every step of the way.

 

[Garbon]

Let me re-phrase that as that makes it sound like a slippery slope. Better put any argument that could be put forth for the HRE could be matched by arguments for many areas. After all, France wouldn't have just sat around peacefully, if Spain had annexed some of its southern provinces or if Brittany had taken paris (before dauphine/france makes it to Paris). Why shouldn't we have similar events that encourage ceding the provinces back? It's a crazy can of worms that you open.

 

[unmerged(40707)]

Only problem here is limitations of EU2 script engine. Random events can't fire other events (needed for CB against the owner) and even if it was possible, we wouldn't be able to know which country was owning the province (for which country the random event -or regular event - fired). We can't trigger an event for the country that is Emperor, but only use emperor = yes as a condition in an event...

And owning a key province doesn't mean corresponding HRE minor or elector was annexed.

I don't think province revoltrisk is a good answer for this situation. Nationalism is the standard behaviour for all provinces. And we already have standard relation drops and BB for annexation.

Remember HRE integrity events are only an unsatisfying answer and HRE can't be better modeled without a complete overhaul of EU2 engine itself, but wait... we can do it now!

 

[Dark Scipio]

Let me re-phrase that as that makes it sound like a slippery slope. Better put any argument that could be put forth for the HRE could be matched by arguments for many areas. After all, France wouldn't have just sat around peacefully, if Spain had annexed some of its southern provinces or if Brittany had taken paris (before dauphine/france makes it to Paris). Why shouldn't we have similar events that encourage ceding the provinces back? It's a crazy can of worms that you open.

I agree, but there is a differences: While France hardly encounters this, the HRE will encounter this problems in nearly every game.

And solving one problem should not be neglected because there are also other problems that should or could be solved.

Only problem here is limitations of EU2 script engine. Random events can't fire other events (needed for CB against the owner) and even if it was possible, we wouldn't be able to know which country was owning the province (for which country the random event -or regular event - fired). We can't trigger an event for the country that is Emperor, but only use emperor = yes as a condition in an event...

And owning a key province doesn't mean corresponding HRE minor or elector was annexed.

I don't think province revoltrisk is a good answer for this situation. Nationalism is the standard behaviour for all provinces. And we already have standard relation drops and BB for annexation.

Remember HRE integrity events are only an unsatisfying answer and HRE can't be better modeled without a complete overhaul of EU2 engine itself, but wait... we can do it now!

I am aware of the limitations. But they dont have to be random events).
Trigger would be just, the controll of that province. And we could just include X events (for all HRE + some others that might be emperor) with the trigger emperor and triggered by the ,,Invader" event. So with a lot of work it is doable.

I was always under the impression that Nationalsim is little threat for invaders. Its also sad that Nationaslism is the same for all ,,invaders". And think about the Netherlands, which also need higher revoltrisk to form.

I know that this are also unsatisfying answers, but better that than nothing. Having Brandenburg be polish etc. so often is much more unsatisfying.
Is this all unneccesassy because you will solve the problem by editing the scource code? That would be great indeed. I would also like to help, although I wont have the skills for this.

My ideas was meant to be a makeshift for the unsatisfying status quo.

 

[Garbon]

I agree, but there is a differences: While France hardly encounters this, the HRE will encounter this problems in nearly every game.

And solving one problem should not be neglected because there are also other problems that should or could be solved.

That was just one example. The same could easily be said for India or Indonesia.

And it isn't that a problem should be ignored but rather that the solution is insufficient as it is trying to do something that isn't in line with the rest of the game.

 

[Dark Scipio]

Of course just an example, but as your other examples show, there are no such important cases as the Holy Roman Empire of german nations.

The solution is not the best, but better than leave the problem untouched. Of course it is not ,,in-line" with the rest of the game. But thats also the case for the other HRE Integrity events, already included in AGCEEP. Further EUII has the problem that the whole HRE is not ,,in-line" with the rest of the game. So the solution can`t be in line with the game also.

 

[Garbon]

there are no such important cases as the Holy Roman Empire of german nations.

 

[Dark Scipio]

In the context of this problem of course, I thought this would be selfunderstanding. :wacko:

 

[unmerged(40707)]

I am aware of the limitations. But they dont have to be random events).
Trigger would be just, the controll of that province. And we could just include X events (for all HRE + some others that might be emperor) with the trigger emperor and triggered by the ,,Invader" event. So with a lot of work it is doable.

How many regular events for this: 1,000, 10,000, more?
A regular event can fire only once.

My ideas was meant to be a makeshift for the unsatisfying status quo.

This is why solution is to be found inside EU2. This is not a status quo, only a "stand by" situation.