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I like the change that Bavaria with the new commands is now able to become an "elector" by event. Or in gameterms a doubleelector instead of a common elector ^^
Yes. :happy:
Have you read my comments about giving more votes to the historical "Kurfuerste"? Any suggestions to be more historical?
Shouldn´t the addcore command for province 345 become a addcore_claim here as during the TYW the province was fought over and did historically not become part of Bavaria immediately? BAY gains a national core later in 1777 when it´s united with PFA.
Yes, I have thought about it. I have also seen that there is no PFA event about the TYW. In this case shouldn't this core be removed with the edict of tolerance?
That's why Maximilian, according to monarch files, is Count Palatine from 1623 to 1648 and Duke of Bavaria from 1597 to 1651.
Shouldn´t the changes to the edict of Tolerance check with a trigger for the command that HEL exists to remove those two provinces from the HRE in case that Switzerlands own event did not yet do that?
You mean... "that event HEL_184033 has fired" I believe. HEL existing ins't sufficient. Or you mean both? HEL existant and that event 184033 has fired? However, imo event 103 could include commands to all the provinces historically leaving the HRE. As you see, I have also added the Dutch provinces. Since 103 is a global event, all players would know about the modifications in the HRE.
As far as I understand it when we use action triggers that can result in an action not to be viable then there is no need to name actions as a or b as the game itself checks which to display.
Yes, that's only to give an order to the scripted choices: a) is useful to already recognize the historical choice.

EDIT: Ok, I have updated my suggestions about the Edict of Tolerance in post #105.
 
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About Saxony, we see in game that MEI (Meissen) inherits it and changes its tag into SAC.

With the change however the imperial vote stay as 1 and not 2 as Saxony needs to have.

I think we should in alternative:

- give to MEI already a second vote from start;

- add the second vote by event with the new command in each MEI event changing the tag from MEI to SAC.
 
The second option sounds best to me. There's the off chance that 1419-Saxony manages to stay independent, or passes to Brandenburg instead, in which case it wouldn't make sense for Meissen to have two votes. This does raise the question of whether Brandenburg should get the extra vote as well if it is lucky enough to inherit Saxony though. Since the Hohnenzollern ascension to the Prince-Bishopric of Mainz happens no matter what in AGCEEP, we'd have a scenario in which the Hohenzollerns sit with three out of seven votes. There's no way the Emperor would ever allow it.

Perhaps a rewrite for the event option where Brandenburg inherits Saxony is in order? Something along the lines of the Hohenzollerns getting the land, but the electoral title being passed to the Wettins perhaps?

On the topic of the Imperial votes; Brandenburg seems to start off with only one vote despite being a historical electorate.

Also, Austria should probably get a double vote once it inherits Bohemia. Bohemia as an independent entity should probably only have one though, since its vote wasn't really used in the EU2 timeframe until the Habsburgs got their hands on it. (If memory serves.)
 
Austria should be the elected one and in this game two votes mean two lost votes for HAB.

Please note that all German minors have a vote in this game, probably that's to avoid the situation in which no elector would vote as they are generally one province countries. However, I think that we need to give more votes to the historical "Kurfuersten" as to distinguish them from the other princes who never took part in the election.

About BRA having 1 vote, it sounds strange and seems like a bug. I don't know the reason why. The event where Brandenburg inherits Saxony could in case be revised if BRA stays with one vote.

About Bohemia with one vote, I don't know. I only thought that the seven electors (six in vanilla map) should have more than 2 votes.
 
Austria should be the elected one and in this game two votes mean two lost votes for HAB.
Oh, I didn't think about that. HAB inherits and diplomatically annexes too much to ever be elected after the Styria inheritance anyway. Should probably have some sort of event to ensure that it has at least passable relations with the other Imperial princes*, as I have yet to play a game in which HAB gets elected more than three or four times at most. (I am referring to the AI controlled HAB, of course.)

*This carries with it the risk of HAB blobbing even more than it already does though, which would be quite a feat considering how much of Europe it tends to repeatedly swallow and spit out already. It almost seems like HAB is deliberately doing it to collect victory points. :p

Please note that all German minors have a vote in this game, probably that's to avoid the situation in which no elector would vote as they are generally one province countries. However, I think that we need to give more votes to the historical "Kurfuersten" as to distinguish them from the other princes who never took part in the election.
Yeah, the Electors should definitely have more votes than the rest of them. Your earlier suggestion of three, or even four votes sounds like it could work well.

About BRA having 1 vote, it sounds strange and seems like a bug. I don't know the reason why. The event where Brandenburg inherits Saxony could in case be revised if BRA stays with one vote.
Would probably be best to just go in and fix the country file, but that could work too.
 
Oh, I didn't think about that. HAB inherits and diplomatically annexes too much to ever be elected after the Styria inheritance anyway. Should probably have some sort of event to ensure that it has at least passable relations with the other Imperial princes*, as I have yet to play a game in which HAB gets elected more than three or four times at most. (I am referring to the AI controlled HAB, of course.)

First of all HAB gets the election bonus that is defined in religions_special.txt so they already have an advantage over anyone else who could be elected even without events.

And then we have not one but several events in which the relations of HAB with the german minors are raised, e.g.
HAB 179045 right after the death of Sigismund of Luxembourg or HAB 179086 to bribe relations up to get Maximilian elected.

*This carries with it the risk of HAB blobbing even more than it already does though, which would be quite a feat considering how much of Europe it tends to repeatedly swallow and spit out already. It almost seems like HAB is deliberately doing it to collect victory points. :p

As those events already exist there is no risk to make the blob worse.
 
Austria should be the elected one and in this game two votes mean two lost votes for HAB.

Please note that all German minors have a vote in this game, probably that's to avoid the situation in which no elector would vote as they are generally one province countries. However, I think that we need to give more votes to the historical "Kurfuersten" as to distinguish them from the other princes who never took part in the election.

About BRA having 1 vote, it sounds strange and seems like a bug. I don't know the reason why. The event where Brandenburg inherits Saxony could in case be revised if BRA stays with one vote.

About Bohemia with one vote, I don't know. I only thought that the seven electors (six in vanilla map) should have more than 2 votes.

In my countries.txt with 1.59 beta 3 Bohemia has 2 votes "elector = 2" and as one of the historical electors that should stay so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince-elector#Composition

As Trier is missing giving Brandenburg 2 votes would mean that the protestants have more weight than the catholics after the reformation...? Perhaps that´s the reason that BRA starts with only 1 vote.
 
First of all HAB gets the election bonus that is defined in religions_special.txt so they already have an advantage over anyone else who could be elected even without events.
Yet they are hardly ever elected. What exactly does the election bonus do? The religions_special.txt isn't exactly clear on that.
And then we have not one but several events in which the relations of HAB with the german minors are raised, e.g.
HAB 179045 right after the death of Sigismund of Luxembourg or HAB 179086 to bribe relations up to get Maximilian elected.
The first of them does what it is supposed to just fine, but the second one comes relatively soon after the HAB inheritance of Styria in 1463, and is followed soon after by the HAB inheritance of Tyrol in 1490, meaning that before Maximilian becomes Archduke, any advantage in the Imperial Elections gained by the King of the Romans event will have been negated by the relations penalty from annexing a country.

What I had in mind was more along the lines of an AI-only event checking Austria's relations with the relevant countries at certain relevant times, and if they're below a certain point, reducing them by -400 and then increasing them back to 125 to set them back to the default. Something like that, anyway.

As those events already exist there is no risk to make the blob worse.
By the way, I am a bit curious about the anti-blob events. Are they proper events - but hidden - or are they programmed in somehow? If the former, it would be nice if a "Break vassalisation" command was included when releasing an annexed non-core country, as anything else results in the aforementioned tendency of the AI to annex-release-annex-release infinitely, thus gaining it tons of victory points for doing essentially nothing.

As Trier is missing giving Brandenburg 2 votes would mean that the protestants have more weight than the catholics after the reformation...? Perhaps that´s the reason that BRA starts with only 1 vote.
That could very well be the case. HAB's inheritance of Bohemia soon after the Reformation starts imbalances it further too. BRA, SAC and PFA are all either Protestant or Reformed, leaving only the two ecclesiastical Electors Catholic. Can't think of any way to make it more balanced on the current map though.
 
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Yet they are hardly ever elected. What exactly does the election bonus do? The religions_special.txt isn't exactly clear on that.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...E-Election&p=10619258&viewfull=1#post10619258

The first of them does what it is supposed to just fine, but the second one comes relatively soon after the HAB inheritance of Styria in 1463,

The "King of the Romans" event HAB 179086 fires between 1486 and 1488 so that the strained diplomatic relations from the prior inheritance of Styria are no problem for the election. The election normally will be after the death of HAB monarch Friedrich V in 1493.

and is followed soon after by the HAB inheritance of Tyrol in 1490, meaning that before Maximilian becomes Archduke, any advantage in the Imperial Elections gained by the King of the Romans event will have been negated by the relations penalty from annexing a country.

Nonsense. In AGCEEP in 1490 HAB does not inherit Tyrol. The event only makes Tyrol a vassal of HAB and if possible puts TYR in the HAB alliance. The inheritance event HAB 179155 fires exactly for the reason of the diplomatic relations 1 day (21.08.1493) AFTER Friedrich V dies and the election likely elevated Maximilian to emperor so that it can´t prevent the election.

What I had in mind was more along the lines of an AI-only event checking Austria's relations with the relevant countries at certain relevant times, and if they're below a certain point, reducing them by -400 and then increasing them back to 125 to set them back to the default. Something like that, anyway.

A player trying to become emperor as someone else than HAB would certainly like that.... ;-)
 
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...E-Election&p=10619258&viewfull=1#post10619258



The "King of the Romans" event HAB 179086 fires between 1486 and 1488 so that the strained diplomatic relations from the prior inheritance of Styria are no problem for the election. The election normally will be after the death of HAB monarch Friedrich V in 1493.



Nonsense. In AGCEEP in 1490 HAB does not inherit Tyrol. The event only makes Tyrol a vassal of HAB and if possible puts TYR in the HAB alliance. The inheritance event HAB 179155 fires exactly for the reason of the diplomatic relations 1 day (21.08.1493) AFTER Friedrich V dies and the election likely elevated Maximilian to emperor so that it can´t prevent the election.



A player trying to become emperor as someone else than HAB would certainly like that.... ;-)

historically, HAB never truly ( fully ) inherited tyrol, styria or salzburg ( but we do in game ) , so these provinces always retained their own vote
 
Ah, I see; thanks.

The "King of the Romans" event HAB 179086 fires between 1486 and 1488 so that the strained diplomatic relations from the prior inheritance of Styria are no problem for the election. The election normally will be after the death of HAB monarch Friedrich V in 1493.
I may be mistaken once again, but doesn't annexing a country - even through inheritance - reduce relations to a point where he'll be lucky if relations are normalized, let alone improved, after 20 years and that event?

Nonsense. In AGCEEP in 1490 HAB does not inherit Tyrol. The event only makes Tyrol a vassal of HAB and if possible puts TYR in the HAB alliance. The inheritance event HAB 179155 fires exactly for the reason of the diplomatic relations 1 day (21.08.1493) AFTER Friedrich V dies and the election likely elevated Maximilian to emperor so that it can´t prevent the election.
Ah, I must have misread the event file. Doesn't change the fact that Maximilian's chances in the Imperial election are slim at best in-game though. :p (In my current game, Isabella and Ferdinand of Spain were elected Emperor instead of Maximilan, (this being my third game where that happened) followed by Vladislav Jagiellon (as king of Bohemia), for instance. At the moment, Saxony seems to have monopolized the title. Point being; AI-controlled HAB doesn't stand a chance in the Imperial Election unless aided by events.)

A player trying to become emperor as someone else than HAB would certainly like that.... ;-)
But shouldn't it be really hard for any country except HAB (and SPA) to become Emperor in the EU2 timeframe anyway? The Imperial Elections weren't exactly fair, to say the least.
 
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...
I may be mistaken once again, but doesn't annexing a country - even through inheritance - reduce relations to a point where he'll be lucky if relations are normalized, let alone improved, after 20 years and that event?

Usually not. HAB has the election bonus that no other state has and this election being before the reformation and if fully tolerating catholics should improve relations with it´s catholic neighbours. And the king of the romans event further raises relations by 50 for the german minors so - unless the AI or player are acting extremely aggressive in a game - his election is likely to happen.

Ah, I must have misread the event file. Doesn't change the fact that Maximilian's chances in the Imperial election are slim at best in-game though. :p

You mean the fact that your assumption was way off doesn´t change your conclusion? Interesting ^^

(In my current game, Isabella and Ferdinand of Spain were elected Emperor instead of Maximilan, (this being my third game where that happened) followed by Vladislav Jagiellon (as king of Bohemia), for instance. At the moment, Saxony seems to have monopolized the title. Point being; AI-controlled HAB doesn't stand a chance in the Imperial Election unless aided by events.)

Oh it does. Usually (meaning in most but not all games where HAB is AI controlled and the player does not interfere with them) HAB will become the emperor. However if though player actions or sometimes AI aggression another state is elected then the next election will be only when that monarch dies or that state is annexed.

But shouldn't it be really hard for any country except HAB (and SPA) to become Emperor in the EU2 timeframe anyway? The Imperial Elections weren't exactly fair, to say the least.

Well historically there have been emperors other than Habsburgs in the timeframe between 1419 - 1820. The game starts with Sigismund von Luxemburg (king of Hungary) and late in the game historically there was the second Wittelsbach Emperor.

The Imperial Elections were no democratic process to select the best emperor. The most important reasons for Electors to select a candidate were
1) how large will be my bribe? HAB usually paid more than the others which is reflected by events paying bribes for the austrian and spanish habsburgs. Even Francis I of France has an event to pay bribes but the historical a choice is a smaller bribe than spain can offer. However *every* state can bribe relations up with the electors and that is good as that means that a human player can become Emperor with any suitable state.
2) will the emperor with his own powerbase be so strong that he becomes a danger of my own independant rule? If so vote for someone else if possible. One of the reasons of the Thirty Years War when the catholic HAB Emperor due to Wallensteins army became a threat to the independance of the princes of the HRE. And somehow their protestantism had a minor part in that too.
3) Does the candidates armies threaten my state and myself? ;-)
 
Right, checked the event files again. Event 322012 for Tirol; "Abdication of Duke Sigmund" triggers in 1490. Among its effects is a trigger for HAB event 179003, "Austria inherits Tirol"

The version of this event documented on the AGCEEP documentation page does, as you said, result in Tyrol becoming a vassal to HAB. However, in the event file itself, that's not the case.

Code:
#(1490) Inheritance of Tyrol
event = {
	id = 179003 #triggered by TYR_322012 A
	random = no
	country = HAB
	name = "EVENTNAME179003" #Austria inherits Tyrol
	desc = "EVENTHIST322012"
	#-#In 1490, the old, childless Duke Sigmund of Tyrol was tired of ruling. He abdicated in favor of his nephew, soon-to-be emperor Maximilian I.

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME179003A" #Tyrol is united with Austria
		command = { type = inherit which = TYR }
		command = { type = addcore which = 371 } #Tirol
		command = { type = addcore which = 373 } #Baden (Breisgau)
		#command = { type = addcore which = 374 } #Alsace to be changed to new Sundgau province as soon as new map appears
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 179091 } #HAB: The claim to Tirol and Vorlande

Probably an oversight, and it does explain why Maximilian hardly ever manages to become emperor in any of the games of EU2 I've played. I am still on version 1.2, so maybe it was fixed in a later patch or some sort?

The Imperial Elections were no democratic process to select the best emperor. The most important reasons for Electors to select a candidate were
1) how large will be my bribe? HAB usually paid more than the others which is reflected by events paying bribes for the austrian and spanish habsburgs. Even Francis I of France has an event to pay bribes but the historical a choice is a smaller bribe than spain can offer. However *every* state can bribe relations up with the electors and that is good as that means that a human player can become Emperor with any suitable state.
2) will the emperor with his own powerbase be so strong that he becomes a danger of my own independant rule? If so vote for someone else if possible. One of the reasons of the Thirty Years War when the catholic HAB Emperor due to Wallensteins army became a threat to the independance of the princes of the HRE. And somehow their protestantism had a minor part in that too.
3) Does the candidates armies threaten my state and myself? ;-)
Ah yes, I am aware of that as well (Well, minus the Thirty Years War part.) My problem is that the AI-controlled HAB ever only bribes anyone in order to later annex them, thus destroying its relations with the other electors and its chances of being elected Emperor. If not an AI event to adjust relations, perhaps more bribery events along the lines of Maximilian's King of the Romans event for important HAB emperors would be in order? There are some parts of the game that really doesn't make a whole lot of sense when Protestant Wirtemberg has the Imperial Crown.
 
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The issue with bad relations was already solved with following events:

Here is current 1.59 beta 3 version of HAB_179003
Code:
#(1490) Inheritance of Tyrol
event = {
	id = 179003 #triggered by TYR_322012 A
	random = no
	country = HAB
	name = "EVENTNAME179003" #Austria inherits Tyrol
	desc = "EVENTHIST322012"
	#-#In 1490, the old, childless Duke Sigmund of Tyrol was tired of ruling. He abdicated in favor of his nephew, soon-to-be emperor Maximilian I.

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME179003A" #Tyrol is united with Austria
		command = { type = vassal which = TYR }
		command = { type = alliance which = TYR }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 179091 } #HAB: The claim to Tirol and Vorlande
	}
}

Then we have this:
Code:
#(1493) Inheritance of Tyrol
event = {
	id = 179155
	trigger = {
		monarch = 055502 #Maximilian I, just in case
		event = 179003 #HAB: Inheritance of Tyrol
	}
	random = no
	country = HAB
	name = "EVENTNAME179003" #The claim to Tirol and Vorlande
	desc = "EVENTHIST179155"
	#-#When Maximilian I ascended to the throne of Austria, lands of Duchy of Tyrol he inherited from Duke Sigismund were formally united with the Archduchy of Austria.

	date = { day = 21 month = August year = 1493 }

	action_a = {
		name = "GOOD"
		command = { type = inherit which = TYR }
		command = { type = addcore which = 371 } #Tirol
		command = { type = addcore which = 373 } #Baden (Breisgau)
		#command = { type = addcore which = 374 } #Alsace to be changed to new Sundgau province as soon as new map appears
	}
}
Which version of agceep are you playing with?

I think that
The version of this event documented on the AGCEEP documentation page
is no more updated!
 
My version was pure 1.2, I think. Got the patch now; thanks. :)

Interestingly enough, the version of the event documented on the AGCEEP documentation page is the same as the updated version included in 1.59, while the version included in the unpatched 1.2 FTG version has the version of the event I mentioned earlier. Weird.
 
My version was pure 1.2, I think. Got the patch now; thanks. :)

Interestingly enough, the version of the event documented on the AGCEEP documentation page is the same as the updated version included in 1.59, while the version included in the unpatched 1.2 FTG version has the version of the event I mentioned earlier. Weird.

1.2 is the version of the patch for FtG - the main game.
1.59 beta 3 is the newest version of AGCEEP. With that old event you quoted you probably have an older version installed. Here is the current version of AGCEEP:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?524192-Compiling-1.59

Having patch 1.2 of the main game will not change anything about the events in the AGCEEP mod.
 
FTG and AGCEEP are almost synonymous in my head, so I sometimes forget that there's a distinction. I have never patched my version of AGCEEP for FTG, so it's no wonder that I had an outdated version of the event in question. I have the latest patch now, in any case, so shouldn't be a problem anymore.

Sorry for derailing the thread there for a bit. Guess we should get back on topic.
 
Does anyone know the meaning of these lines
Code:
hre = {
	_HRE_ELECT_ELECTOR_BONUS_     = 100 #Positive
	_HRE_ELECT_SPECIAL_BONUS_     =  25 #Positive
	_HRE_ELECT_RANDOM_BONUS_      =  10 #Positive

	_HRE_SUPPORTIVE_INCOME_       = 2.00 #Positive
	_HRE_SUPPORTIVE_MANPOWER_     = 1.00 #Positive
}
in the defines.txt in ftg db folder?

I understand income and manpower which are also displayed over the current emperor's shield. But the others?

How do they relate to the following line in religion_special?

Code:
hre = {
	default_emperor = HAB
	election_bonus = { HAB GER }
}

Is it that 1 vote gives 100? So Koeln voting HAB means that HAB gets 200 + 25 and in case + 10 from Koeln?
 
What should be the reason behind this command?

command = { type = alt_provincereligion which = x value = religion_name }

Changes the province religion in province x. This will work even if the province is not
owned by the country receiving the event, and even if not owned by any country.

Has it something to do with following event?

Code:
#(1555) The Religious Peace of Augsburg
event = {
	id = 3189
	random = no
	country = HAB
	name = "EVENTNAME3189" #The Religious Peace of Augsburg
	desc = "EVENTHIST3189"
	#-#Opened at Augsburg on Feb. 5, 1555, was proclaimed by Charles V, but not wishing to take part in the inevitable religious compromises, he refused to attend the proceedings and empowered his brother Ferdinand (the future emperor Ferdinand I) to settle all questions. It determined that in the future no member of the empire should make war against another on religious grounds and that this peace should remain operative until the denominations were peacefully reunited. Only two denominations were recognized, the Roman Catholics and the Lutherans. Moreover, in each territory of the empire, only one denomination was to be recognized, the religion of the prince's choice being thus made obligatory for his subjects. Protestant and Catholic citizens in the free and imperial cities remained free to exercise their religion as they pleased. The wish for a lasting settlement was so strong that the compromise peace, which satisfied no one completely and had many loopholes, was accepted. In spite of its shortcomings, the Peace of Augsburg saved the empire from serious internal conflicts for more than 50 years.

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1555 }
	offset = 10
	deathdate = { day = 2 month = december year = 1555 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3189A" #The Princes may choose their Religion
		command = { type = religion which = catholic }
		command = { type = relation which = BRA value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = HAN value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = HES value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = PFA value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = SAC value = 100 }
		#command = { type = relation which = THU value = 100 } #Bayreuth
		command = { type = relation which = SHL value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = KLE value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = KOL value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = BAY value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = -100 }
		command = { type = domestic which = INNOVATIVE value = 1 }
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 251014 } #PAP: Peace of Augsburg
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3189B" #There is only one religion, Catholicism
		command = { type = religion which = catholic }
		command = { type = relation which = BRA value = -150 }
		command = { type = relation which = HAN value = -150 }
		command = { type = relation which = HES value = -150 }
		command = { type = relation which = PFA value = -150 }
		command = { type = relation which = SAC value = -150 }
		#command = { type = relation which = THU value = -150 } #Bayreuth
		command = { type = relation which = SHL value = -150 }
		command = { type = relation which = KLE value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = KOL value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = BAY value = 100 }
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = 150 }
		command = { type = domestic which = INNOVATIVE value = -2 }
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
	}
	action_c = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3189C" #Anyone may choose their Religion
		command = { type = relation which = BRA value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = HAN value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = HES value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = PFA value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = SAC value = -100 }
		#command = { type = relation which = THU value = -100 } #Bayreuth
		command = { type = relation which = SHL value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = KLE value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = KOL value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = BAY value = -100 }
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = -200 }
		command = { type = domestic which = INNOVATIVE value = 3 }
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
	}
}
that is action A should trigger specific country events in which the "cuius regio, eius religio" principle is received?

According to the current religio of a German minor we could assign the correct prince religion to his subjects.

But in this case we could use the simpler country targeted command to change each province religion.