Thank you, I think a Leviathan going on rampage could be a cool map event.
Also maybe NPC/Dwelling factions may attack with one of these if they hate a player Empire enough.
Adopting Stellaris systems to create the best AOW 4
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Also maybe NPC/Dwelling factions may attack with one of these if they hate a player Empire enough.
The essential idea
I have forgot to point out the essential motivation for this thread.
Stellaris is successful because it's an expandable scifi trope simulator.
Therefore, it stand to reason AOW4 can be successful if it becomes an expandable fantasy trope simulator.
To do this, the game should gradually add systems that allow players to roleplay any fantasy ruler on any fantasy scenario.
Want to be a pirate prince looking for lost treasure guarded by a legendary monster ? sure.
Want to be the last Khan fighting to restore glory of his people ? you can do that too.
Want to be a great mage chasing the ultimate catgirl ? be my guest
This is why I suggested things like Multi-classing and origins. While a strategy game, AOW has the potential to be the best RPG ever.
Stellaris is successful because it's an expandable scifi trope simulator.
Therefore, it stand to reason AOW4 can be successful if it becomes an expandable fantasy trope simulator.
To do this, the game should gradually add systems that allow players to roleplay any fantasy ruler on any fantasy scenario.
Want to be a pirate prince looking for lost treasure guarded by a legendary monster ? sure.
Want to be the last Khan fighting to restore glory of his people ? you can do that too.
Want to be a great mage chasing the ultimate catgirl ? be my guest
This is why I suggested things like Multi-classing and origins. While a strategy game, AOW has the potential to be the best RPG ever.
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Class affinities in place of traditions
First a quick point on motivation, This thread exist because I want an ultimate fantasy sandbox, much like Stellaris is the ultimate space sandbox. I think such a game would be objectively good, however, everyone unconsciously think whatever is good for them is objectively good. So instead of denying the biases there, it’s better to point out if we do not agree on this point, there is no point reading this post.
Now without further delay
I see, you are a man of culture: Class affinities in place of traditions
A bit of background, a lot of grand strategy games have systems that represents the policy and traditions of empire. In Civ 5 it’s called culture, Civ 6 it’s called civics, in Stellaris this is called traditions. In a gameplay sense it define the empire’s passive bonuses, and lore wise it defines what kind of empire it is.
My previous suggestions for AOW 4 has often tied system from Stellaris into classes or archetypes that defines the fantasy genre. For instance turning governing ethics into opposed ruler classes. This idea is similar in that culture of the empire is tied to its affinity towards each of the classes.
Basically, player action in game will increase their affinity towards particular classes, up to 100%. Each class has an associated cultural tree, comprising 9 nodes. These nodes are arranged into tiers (usually 3) and may require nodes on the previous tier before they can be unlocked.
If you are not familiar with the stellaris tradition trees, here’s screenshot of a mod that expand on that system:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd....icy=Letterbox&imcolor=#000000&letterbox=false
The tree itself is unlocked at 10% affinity. Player can unlock one additional node for ever 10% affinity. Unlocking every node requires 100% affinity and will also provide an additional completion bonus. Every percent of affinity in one class will also reduce all future affinity gain of the opposing class by 1 percent. For example, an event that would increase archdruid affinity by 10% would only do so by 3% if an empire have 70% dreadnough affinity when it happens. This reduction takes place regardless if nodes in the affinity tree is unlocked.
Affinity increase comes from three sources, in game actions, event decisions, and bardic districts.
The first source is perform actions typical to a class, for example using a landship to bulldoze a forest would yield affinity for Dreadnought. Performing flanking attack with assassins in battle would increase affinity for Rogue.
The second source is selecting the decision typical to a class whenever an event choice present itself. Event choices are already present in planetfall, although they are rare. In stellaris they look like this, and are fairly common.
https://external-preview.redd.it/aH...bp&s=b12baea716b3afa1af5ef5c3b3feb95f8094144a
I have also discussed events at length in the first post.
The last source is Basically a new district for cultural buildings like theaters, opera houses, museums, and bardic colleges. The district will generate affinity proportional to the ruler’s class combinations, for example, a bardic district will generate 60% warlord affinity, 20% rogue affinity and 20% sorcerer affinity for a ruler with warlord 3 / rogue 1/ sorcerer 1 class combination. If the district has a governor, it would generate affinity for the governor rather than the ruler.
Cultural affinity also act as factions, so that if an empire have high affinity towards the class opposed to the current ruler, the ruler will have low approval. The player can appoint another hero as the ruler in this situation but their player character will remain the empire leader.
The following is an example for sorcerer affinity tree. It benefit attack spells, summoning, and research, everything a sorcerer ought to do, but also enhance the empire’s ability to perform these tasks in general.
Sorcerer Affinity
Unlocking bonus: Arcane appraisal: Mana crystal pickup also provide research
Conjuration Line:
Summoner’s Aura: Summoned units gain defense, resistance, and regeneration.
Familiar Bond: each support unit half upkeep of a summoned unit in the same army, this does not stack with other sources of half upkeep, like good will.
Lifelink: All summoned units gain pledge of protection, allowing them to absorb pain for heroes and support units.
Evocation Line:
Practical Exams: All heroes beside the ruler gain 5 casting points.
Magical Sports: Casting a spell leaves a hero with 1 action point.
Dueling tournaments: support unit do additional damage to support units, attack spells do additional damage to heroes.
Divination Line:
Arcane Deciphering: Archaeology 25 percent faster, and produces 25% more mana reward.
Library Cantrips: A garrisoned hero add their unused casting point (at end of turn) to research.
Arcane Study: Cleared exploration sites also produces 5 research.
Completion bonus: Magocracy: research buildings produce stability (happiness), all production queues can be rushed with mana, at no cost of happiness penalties.
That’s all for now. Hopefully it has been an entertaining read.
Now without further delay
I see, you are a man of culture: Class affinities in place of traditions
A bit of background, a lot of grand strategy games have systems that represents the policy and traditions of empire. In Civ 5 it’s called culture, Civ 6 it’s called civics, in Stellaris this is called traditions. In a gameplay sense it define the empire’s passive bonuses, and lore wise it defines what kind of empire it is.
My previous suggestions for AOW 4 has often tied system from Stellaris into classes or archetypes that defines the fantasy genre. For instance turning governing ethics into opposed ruler classes. This idea is similar in that culture of the empire is tied to its affinity towards each of the classes.
Basically, player action in game will increase their affinity towards particular classes, up to 100%. Each class has an associated cultural tree, comprising 9 nodes. These nodes are arranged into tiers (usually 3) and may require nodes on the previous tier before they can be unlocked.
If you are not familiar with the stellaris tradition trees, here’s screenshot of a mod that expand on that system:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd....icy=Letterbox&imcolor=#000000&letterbox=false
The tree itself is unlocked at 10% affinity. Player can unlock one additional node for ever 10% affinity. Unlocking every node requires 100% affinity and will also provide an additional completion bonus. Every percent of affinity in one class will also reduce all future affinity gain of the opposing class by 1 percent. For example, an event that would increase archdruid affinity by 10% would only do so by 3% if an empire have 70% dreadnough affinity when it happens. This reduction takes place regardless if nodes in the affinity tree is unlocked.
Affinity increase comes from three sources, in game actions, event decisions, and bardic districts.
The first source is perform actions typical to a class, for example using a landship to bulldoze a forest would yield affinity for Dreadnought. Performing flanking attack with assassins in battle would increase affinity for Rogue.
The second source is selecting the decision typical to a class whenever an event choice present itself. Event choices are already present in planetfall, although they are rare. In stellaris they look like this, and are fairly common.
https://external-preview.redd.it/aH...bp&s=b12baea716b3afa1af5ef5c3b3feb95f8094144a
I have also discussed events at length in the first post.
The last source is Basically a new district for cultural buildings like theaters, opera houses, museums, and bardic colleges. The district will generate affinity proportional to the ruler’s class combinations, for example, a bardic district will generate 60% warlord affinity, 20% rogue affinity and 20% sorcerer affinity for a ruler with warlord 3 / rogue 1/ sorcerer 1 class combination. If the district has a governor, it would generate affinity for the governor rather than the ruler.
Cultural affinity also act as factions, so that if an empire have high affinity towards the class opposed to the current ruler, the ruler will have low approval. The player can appoint another hero as the ruler in this situation but their player character will remain the empire leader.
The following is an example for sorcerer affinity tree. It benefit attack spells, summoning, and research, everything a sorcerer ought to do, but also enhance the empire’s ability to perform these tasks in general.
Sorcerer Affinity
Unlocking bonus: Arcane appraisal: Mana crystal pickup also provide research
Conjuration Line:
Summoner’s Aura: Summoned units gain defense, resistance, and regeneration.
Familiar Bond: each support unit half upkeep of a summoned unit in the same army, this does not stack with other sources of half upkeep, like good will.
Lifelink: All summoned units gain pledge of protection, allowing them to absorb pain for heroes and support units.
Evocation Line:
Practical Exams: All heroes beside the ruler gain 5 casting points.
Magical Sports: Casting a spell leaves a hero with 1 action point.
Dueling tournaments: support unit do additional damage to support units, attack spells do additional damage to heroes.
Divination Line:
Arcane Deciphering: Archaeology 25 percent faster, and produces 25% more mana reward.
Library Cantrips: A garrisoned hero add their unused casting point (at end of turn) to research.
Arcane Study: Cleared exploration sites also produces 5 research.
Completion bonus: Magocracy: research buildings produce stability (happiness), all production queues can be rushed with mana, at no cost of happiness penalties.
That’s all for now. Hopefully it has been an entertaining read.
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Kinship system: Fantasy races as archetypes.
Kinship system: Fantasy races as archetypes.
Stellaris had a unique feature that allow player to design their own species. This is a lot of fun. But it’s considerably more difficult to implement in a game where some units are linked to the race.
So I’ve been thinking, perhaps fantasy races could be made into archetypes, much like “Lithoid” or “Mammalians” in Stellaris. And players could design a group with distinct identity within that archetype. This could represent an high elf house, a dwarf clan, or a draconian tribe.
Take high elves for example,
They have archetype trait: Like dense vegetation, hates blighted and volcanic, + 1 resist, + 1 range, 20 percent blight weakness, and forestry as archetype trait, so any kin created with this archetype will have these traits, as well as t1 and t2 racial units, swordsman, longbows, union guard, storm sisters.
However, within this framework a player could customize their own elven house by adding and removing traits, like in Stellaris. Some customization traits are shared between all archetypes, while others are restricted to some archetypes For example, they could be closer to AOW2 wood elves by taking a trait that gives all units forest concealment, which would also apply to class units. In additional, they could take treant and iron maidens as unique units. Conversely, one could create a less wild, and more cultured elven house by taking a trait that increase research pop output, and take griffon rider as a unique units, which makes them more similar to AOW3 high elves.
Importantly customization traits could be expanded over patches, making it possible to have a lot of variety over time. For example there could be traits that can change the preferred environment of a race, if there is enough player demand for it.
That’s it for now. In the next post, my idea for a new class.
Stellaris had a unique feature that allow player to design their own species. This is a lot of fun. But it’s considerably more difficult to implement in a game where some units are linked to the race.
So I’ve been thinking, perhaps fantasy races could be made into archetypes, much like “Lithoid” or “Mammalians” in Stellaris. And players could design a group with distinct identity within that archetype. This could represent an high elf house, a dwarf clan, or a draconian tribe.
Take high elves for example,
They have archetype trait: Like dense vegetation, hates blighted and volcanic, + 1 resist, + 1 range, 20 percent blight weakness, and forestry as archetype trait, so any kin created with this archetype will have these traits, as well as t1 and t2 racial units, swordsman, longbows, union guard, storm sisters.
However, within this framework a player could customize their own elven house by adding and removing traits, like in Stellaris. Some customization traits are shared between all archetypes, while others are restricted to some archetypes For example, they could be closer to AOW2 wood elves by taking a trait that gives all units forest concealment, which would also apply to class units. In additional, they could take treant and iron maidens as unique units. Conversely, one could create a less wild, and more cultured elven house by taking a trait that increase research pop output, and take griffon rider as a unique units, which makes them more similar to AOW3 high elves.
Importantly customization traits could be expanded over patches, making it possible to have a lot of variety over time. For example there could be traits that can change the preferred environment of a race, if there is enough player demand for it.
That’s it for now. In the next post, my idea for a new class.
the Chevalier Class: Units
Isn't there a white knight upon a fiery steed: the Chevalier
While thinking about presentation of fantasy archetypes, which represent alignments or policies, I came to realize there is no existing class that exactly opposes warlord or sorcerer. Two new classes would be needed to complete these axis. Opposing the sorcerer, I’d introduce elementalist, a shaman type character who rely on inherent spiritual connection to primal forces of nature, instead of arcane studies. Gameplay wise they would a combination of AOW3’s elemental (fire, earth, water, air) specializations, combined with wild magic. I will write about the idea in a future post, since its feature such as spell and units already exist.
Which just leaves the warlord. The warlord in AOW3 strongly invoke the image of barbarian king, who overwhelm their enemies in a tide of sweaty oiled manliness. I’d like to introduce the Chevalier, a shining knight upon a fiery steed, who prevails by technique rather than brute force, and whose gallant defense makes maidens all over the wold swoon.
With these two classes, I believe all the fantasy archetypes are covered.
Torchbearer/Keepers (Good) vs Shadowborne (Evil)
Grey Guard (Order) vs Rogue (Chaos)
Theocrat (Reilgious Orthodoxy) vs. Necromancer(Hersey)
Dreadnought (Technology) vs. Arch druid (Nature)
Sorcerer (Arcane) vs. Elementalist (Primal)
Warlord (Offense) vs Chevalier (Defense)
That said, let’s go over the features of the class, starting with units.
True to the lore, the class’s battlefield abilities have strong emphasis on discrepancies, swaps, and displacements. Unlike a warlord, a Chevalier player must pay close attention to formations to achieve victory.
Stage coach
(Tier 1, cavalry , transport)
It would be unbecoming for a noble lord to go anywhere on foot. Enter the stage coach, a unarmed tactical utility unit to aid in exploration and provide an edge in battle. It comes with several useful abilities:
Squires
(Tier 2, infantry)
Every knight start out polishing someone else’s armor. These aspiring knights are eager to earn their mount and become full chevaliers. They differ from regular infantry in several different ways:
(Tier 2, support)
Noble ladies who carries a fan and say “Ara Ara”. Indispensable for filling out paperwork and collecting taxes. Defend themselves competently in battle. It would be really hard to be a knight if there are no damsels to defend.
Chevalier
(Tier 3, cavalry)
Armored cavalry armed with enchanted lances and riding griffons. The armored fist of Chivalry can shatter the most stout lines.
Tactician
(Tier 3, cavalry)
Noble ladies who can turn the tide of battle with keen observation of sound tactical advises. Rides on a griffon to keep up with chevaliers but is only armed with a sword for personal defense. Has 4 tactical abilities, one of which requires additional research.
Lord Commander
(Tier 4, Machine)
A huge, enchanted suit of armor infused with the soul of a famous knight and carrying an enchanted swords. This massive Golem is a true menace to attacking armies on its own. These sight of these war machines also inspire their armies to great deeds of valor.
The unit designs make Chevalier a very position dependent class, playing chevalier means paying attention to which unit is adjacent to which, where the warlord is very much going straight at them. The unit design is inspired by fire emblem series with adjacency abilities, and is fun for people who enjoys a good puzzle.
Will post about buildings and modules next. The modules focus on effect that triggers in very specific situations, and buildings will perhaps be the bigger surprise.
While thinking about presentation of fantasy archetypes, which represent alignments or policies, I came to realize there is no existing class that exactly opposes warlord or sorcerer. Two new classes would be needed to complete these axis. Opposing the sorcerer, I’d introduce elementalist, a shaman type character who rely on inherent spiritual connection to primal forces of nature, instead of arcane studies. Gameplay wise they would a combination of AOW3’s elemental (fire, earth, water, air) specializations, combined with wild magic. I will write about the idea in a future post, since its feature such as spell and units already exist.
Which just leaves the warlord. The warlord in AOW3 strongly invoke the image of barbarian king, who overwhelm their enemies in a tide of sweaty oiled manliness. I’d like to introduce the Chevalier, a shining knight upon a fiery steed, who prevails by technique rather than brute force, and whose gallant defense makes maidens all over the wold swoon.
With these two classes, I believe all the fantasy archetypes are covered.
Torchbearer/Keepers (Good) vs Shadowborne (Evil)
Grey Guard (Order) vs Rogue (Chaos)
Theocrat (Reilgious Orthodoxy) vs. Necromancer(Hersey)
Dreadnought (Technology) vs. Arch druid (Nature)
Sorcerer (Arcane) vs. Elementalist (Primal)
Warlord (Offense) vs Chevalier (Defense)
That said, let’s go over the features of the class, starting with units.
True to the lore, the class’s battlefield abilities have strong emphasis on discrepancies, swaps, and displacements. Unlike a warlord, a Chevalier player must pay close attention to formations to achieve victory.
Stage coach
(Tier 1, cavalry , transport)
It would be unbecoming for a noble lord to go anywhere on foot. Enter the stage coach, a unarmed tactical utility unit to aid in exploration and provide an edge in battle. It comes with several useful abilities:
- Pickup: use one action point to pick up any adjacent friendly non-massive infantry, pike, or archery unit. Pickup does not trigger an attack of opportunity, even if the target would trigger an attack of opportunity by moving.
- Drop-off: use one action point to deploy picked up unit on adjacent unoccupied hex. This ability ignore zone of control, meaning that a stage coach within enemy zone of control can drop off a unit on another hex within enemy zone of control.
- Triage(passive): A unit inside the coach is healed 5 HP per combat round, but cannot perform any action (opposite of swallow whole).
- Evacuate: The stage coach can retreat while defending, except in siege battles. The coach and any unit’s carrying is teleported to the nearest friendly city.
Squires
(Tier 2, infantry)
Every knight start out polishing someone else’s armor. These aspiring knights are eager to earn their mount and become full chevaliers. They differ from regular infantry in several different ways:
- Evolve: Squire evolve into Chevaliers (unit) upon reaching gold.
- Armored: gain extra defense, but is vulnerable to armor piercing
- Chivalry : +200 morale and +50 percent experience gain on unit.
- Elemental melee: This unit inflict the same type of elemental damage in melee combat as support unit of their respective race. This can be overwritten by a weapon mod.
(Tier 2, support)
Noble ladies who carries a fan and say “Ara Ara”. Indispensable for filling out paperwork and collecting taxes. Defend themselves competently in battle. It would be really hard to be a knight if there are no damsels to defend.
- Damsel in distress: Spend one action point to switch position with any unit with Chivalry trait. This ability ignore enemy zone of control and attack of opportunity.
- Dulcinea effect: Units with Chivalry gain +5 defense and resistance while adjacent to this unit. The effect end if the unit moves away.
- Nobility: Add +100 morale (stacking) in any city the unit is garrisoned, add +100 morale (non-stacking) to any army the unit is a part of.
- Song and Poetry: This unit produces culture when garrisoned in a city (require a cultural trait).
Chevalier
(Tier 3, cavalry)
Armored cavalry armed with enchanted lances and riding griffons. The armored fist of Chivalry can shatter the most stout lines.
- Flying: This unit can pass all obstacles and ignore zone of control in combat.
- Charge: This unit does more damage the further it moves in a round.
- Devastating charge: When a charge is initiated, the target enemy unit is pushed back one hex, if they have an empty hex behind them, and are not massive.
- Armored: gain extra defense, but is vulnerable to armor piercing
- Chivalry : +200 morale and +50 percent experience gain on unit.
- Pole-arm: the unit has first strike and bonus damage against cavalry
- Elemental melee: This unit inflict the same type of elemental damage in melee combat as support unit of their respective race. This can be overwritten by a weapon mod.
Tactician
(Tier 3, cavalry)
Noble ladies who can turn the tide of battle with keen observation of sound tactical advises. Rides on a griffon to keep up with chevaliers but is only armed with a sword for personal defense. Has 4 tactical abilities, one of which requires additional research.
- Flying: This unit can pass all obstacles and ignore zone of control in combat.
- Damsel in distress: Spend one action point to switch position with any unit with Chivalry trait. This ability ignore enemy zone of control and attack of opportunity.
- Dulcinea effect: Units with Chivalry gain +5 defense and resistance while adjacent to this unit. The effect end if the unit moves away.
- By the Numbers: Active skill, target enemy unit within 6 hexes suffers -5 defense for every adjacent friendly infantry, cavalry, and pike unit for one round.
- Focus fire: Active skill, target enemy unit within 6 hexes suffers -2 defense for every ranged attack hitting it every round. (keep in mind this is -6 for a full volley which hits)
- Hold the Line: Active skill, target friendly unit within 4 hexes loses all of its remaining action points and enter defense stance. Gains +5 defense for each movement point consumed this way, and +5 defense for each adjacent friendly infantry or pike unit, for one round.
- Reposition: Active skill, target friendly unit within 6 hexes ignore zone of control, attack of opportunity and over watch, In addition to being able to move through friendly units, but cannot take any action beside move and defend for one round. (require research)
Lord Commander
(Tier 4, Machine)
A huge, enchanted suit of armor infused with the soul of a famous knight and carrying an enchanted swords. This massive Golem is a true menace to attacking armies on its own. These sight of these war machines also inspire their armies to great deeds of valor.
- Massive: Ranged attack against this unit is only obstructed by another massive unit or large piece of terrain. This unit is immune to many abilities but are vulnerable to abilities that only affect massive units.
- Armored: +2 armor, vulnerable to armor piercing
- Reinforced: +4 defense against ranged attacks.
- Chivalry : +200 morale and +50 percent experience gain on unit.
- Inspiration: Army gains +250 morale
- Prismatic sword: This unit attack enemies to the left and right of the target (frontal arc) as well. Its damage is spread evenly between physical, cold, fire and lightning channels.
- Intercept: when a friendly unit with Chivalry or Damsel in Distress with within 2 hexes would be killed by an attack, Swap lord commander and that unit and the lord commander will receive the attack in place of that unit. If this ability triggers, remove one action point from lord commander. The ability cannot trigger if lord commander is out of movement point. Intercept does not guarantee survival of the protected unit, an AOE attack may kill them anyway if the attack also reach the original position of the lord commander. When multiple lord commanders are eligible to trigger intercept, the one with more AP remaining takes priority. Intercept CAN kill the lord commander.
The unit designs make Chevalier a very position dependent class, playing chevalier means paying attention to which unit is adjacent to which, where the warlord is very much going straight at them. The unit design is inspired by fire emblem series with adjacency abilities, and is fun for people who enjoys a good puzzle.
Will post about buildings and modules next. The modules focus on effect that triggers in very specific situations, and buildings will perhaps be the bigger surprise.
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Nerd, might I suggest that you actually get a game-builder and put this in practice? My guess is that you could without too much difficulty. There are standard game systems that you could use, and look a lot like AOW. Or get into modding? You could try these systems out for yourself. You definitely seem patient enough.
I also bet that you find these highly intricate mechanics to be a rough tradeoff. Added complexity, particularly in things like "Damsel in Distress" is worse than you think, in practice. Being able to drain movement points, plus re-position a high-value unit, seems like a giant abuse ready to happen. Or utterly ineffective.
I'm just thinking that there will be a predictable result; you will see that most of this is fluff, or one or two of your systems is all that matters, and you dig into those to exclusion. Maybe focus your posts?
I also bet that you find these highly intricate mechanics to be a rough tradeoff. Added complexity, particularly in things like "Damsel in Distress" is worse than you think, in practice. Being able to drain movement points, plus re-position a high-value unit, seems like a giant abuse ready to happen. Or utterly ineffective.
I'm just thinking that there will be a predictable result; you will see that most of this is fluff, or one or two of your systems is all that matters, and you dig into those to exclusion. Maybe focus your posts?
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You mean a package called {elf} that has a set of traits and units, and then another package, called {something} and the player gets to combine them?
In theory could be good.
Devil is in the details.
Interesting concept you have, but would need to be careful not to make the two joining aspects too "bland" which is how I feel things are in Stellaris.
I mean a package called {elf}, like {avian} or {lithoids} in Stellaris, which can then be customized by the player.
Devil is in the details indeed. I should expand on the idea.
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I'm not sure I like this approach.
Now basically there's no difference between Elves, Orcs, Goblins, Halflings... except visually.
Now basically there's no difference between Elves, Orcs, Goblins, Halflings... except visually.
The race suggestion is basically what they have in the game at the moment.
I wouldn't say they are purely cosmetic because racial units are still going to depend on the archetype.
I'd imagine that not all races share the same traits, especially traits related to racial units.
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A set of sentences is a terrible compilation with an attempt to cross a hedgehog and a snake. Finally understand - yes, Stellaris is a great game in its genre, but AoW is a completely different game concept. In each of your posts you mention Stellaris, any suggestion you make is "like in Stellaris" or similar to Solaris. Read at least the name of the topic in the forum, it doesn't say something like Stellaris 2, does it? I'm not talking about the fact that the game does not need to be improved or changed, but your obsessive attempts to change the very essence of the game - its concept, to make in fact another game - are already pretty tired.
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For example, Core Ork and Elf racial unit would stay the same, regardless how much those races are customized.
I can imagine some trait would add additional unique units, but not removing core units.
Say traits can make elves sea elves that are amphibious and like water sectors instead of wood elves,
They'd still have longbowman.
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Multiculturalism
I have posted the multicultural city idea in a separate thread.
forum.paradoxplaza.com
Since stellaris uses a similar system, I will also paste it here for record.
If you go to a capital city in any sort of MMORPG, you'd see people from all races and all walks of life.
It'd be nice to have an option to create such metropolitan cities, so there is a narrative motivation.
Cities from past AOW series has always of a particular race, I think allowing multicultural cities also some gameplay benefit, which I will explain.
Since I strongly believe letting players do whatever they want, this is a suggested option. it would not affect people who do not wish to take part in it.
Clarification:
Will use the word "Peoples" to describe combination of form, culture, and traits. "Race" and "Species" gets confusing.
Pop means "Population units", for anyone who isn't familiar, it's the number on top of cities in planetfall and civilization.
Each pop unit can work a different job which produce some resources.
The Basic idea:
The second option adds "Mono-cultural" empire modifier, grants "Migrate" option on conquest, and starts Mono-cultural event chain.
The third option add "Slaver" empire modifier, grants "Enslave" option on conquest, and start Slaver event chain.
I think the event system is less unwieldy than separate "policy" and "species" UI from Stellaris.
The empire modifiers determines how pop units behave.
Multicultural empires:
Mono-cultural empires:
Slaver empires:
Event chains will from time to time, given a option for the player to give up on their current population policy and pick another one.
But once they complete the event chain, they are stuck with it.
To change treatments of a particular people, introduce a "advisor council" event to discuss policy, which can be triggered for a small sum of gold.
On Gameplay:
It's a tradeoff between growth and control. Multiculturalism is powerful, but unpredictable, because the player cannot control which pop end up in which jobs.
The also have no control over pop movement. if a multicultural empire found a city on desert, they might be surprised to find they can only produce Tigran units from it because of habitability preferences. On the other end of spectrum, a slaver empire can only produce founder, and suffers because their military units perform poorly in terrain hostile to them.
Idea: The multiculturalism option
If you go to a capital city in any sort of MMORPG, you'd see people from all races and all walks of life. It'd be nice to have an option to create such metropolitan cities, so there is a narrative motivation. Cities from past AOW series has...
If you go to a capital city in any sort of MMORPG, you'd see people from all races and all walks of life.
It'd be nice to have an option to create such metropolitan cities, so there is a narrative motivation.
Cities from past AOW series has always of a particular race, I think allowing multicultural cities also some gameplay benefit, which I will explain.
Since I strongly believe letting players do whatever they want, this is a suggested option. it would not affect people who do not wish to take part in it.
Clarification:
Will use the word "Peoples" to describe combination of form, culture, and traits. "Race" and "Species" gets confusing.
Pop means "Population units", for anyone who isn't familiar, it's the number on top of cities in planetfall and civilization.
Each pop unit can work a different job which produce some resources.
The Basic idea:
- Associating every pop unit to a particular people
- Drafting military units consume pops of a particular kind
- Some player action will affect certain pops deferentially
- This is all tied to the event system
- "Let them stay, we can make use of the others." (+chaos?)
- "Drive them out, we must maintain cultural purity." (+order?)
- "Treat them as livestock, for we are the chosen ones." (+shadow?)
The second option adds "Mono-cultural" empire modifier, grants "Migrate" option on conquest, and starts Mono-cultural event chain.
The third option add "Slaver" empire modifier, grants "Enslave" option on conquest, and start Slaver event chain.
I think the event system is less unwieldy than separate "policy" and "species" UI from Stellaris.
The empire modifiers determines how pop units behave.
Multicultural empires:
- Pop other than founder can grow, that is, when a city grows it rolls a die to determine which kind of pop it creates.
- Pop in multicultural empires move automatically to preferred terrain.
- City can create military units from any people living in it, as long as there is enough pop to form the unit. of course, there needs to be a "founder only" toggle, otherwise there might be too many options.
- Assimilate add a city or district to empire without changing their population makeup
- Multicultural event chain ( named "e plubs eum"?) will further improve multicultural prowess, eventually unlocking Heroes from other peoples,
Migration treaties, and eventually, instant assimilation and automatic causus beli vs slaver empires. - Multicultural empire gets an event whenever they encounter a new people, asking the player if they will be allowed into the empire, if not they are displaced.
- Multicultural empires gets both positive and negative events to population, for example, when incompatible people clash with each other within their borders, depending how well they are handled, outcome ranges from increased stability to entire cities breaking off.
- Gameplay wise, multicultural empires are fast growing and can field very large diversity of unit. The tradeoff is they require extra effort to manage effectively.
Mono-cultural empires:
- Cities basically behave the way they are. there is a dominant people in each city, dictated by the player, and all other pops are displaced.
- Since all cities have only one type of pop, they can only create military units from one people.
- Migrate displace all peoples, except the one the player dictate, from a city. They might end up with a ghost towns unless they have a source of that pop somewhere.
E.g. if all your cities are humans, you migrate one to elves, the city would depopulate to 0 unless you conquer another city with elf in it.
However no such problems if you migrate a city to its already existing dominant people. - Mono-cultural event chain further increase Mono-cultural prowess, including various bonus for founder pop and military units, eventually the ability to instantly migrate.
- Mono-cultural empires gets various positive event from time to time, similar to existing "we love the emperor day".
- Gameplay wise, they are exactly identical to previous age of wonders.
Slaver empires:
- Non-founder pops are slaves, they cannot grow, or form military units, but their upkeeps are reduced.
- Enslave action destroys the city, and transfer its entire population to nearby player cities as slaves.
- Slaver event chain improves the power to exploit other people, including increasing slave output, reduce their upkeep, access to the slave market,
and eventually instantly form vessel from conquered cities and automatic causes beli against any empire that refuse your demand. - Slaver empire gets an event when they encounter a new people, asking the player if they want to enslave or exterminate them,
If the player choose to exterminate, pop unit from that people will be displaced to other empires with losses
(Each pop pop rolls a dice to see if they escape and survives in another empire, depending on distance) - Slaver empire gets only negative population events, especially common are slave rebellions.
- Gameplay wise, it rewards aggression, and encourage a play style focused on combat rather than empire management.
Event chains will from time to time, given a option for the player to give up on their current population policy and pick another one.
But once they complete the event chain, they are stuck with it.
To change treatments of a particular people, introduce a "advisor council" event to discuss policy, which can be triggered for a small sum of gold.
On Gameplay:
It's a tradeoff between growth and control. Multiculturalism is powerful, but unpredictable, because the player cannot control which pop end up in which jobs.
The also have no control over pop movement. if a multicultural empire found a city on desert, they might be surprised to find they can only produce Tigran units from it because of habitability preferences. On the other end of spectrum, a slaver empire can only produce founder, and suffers because their military units perform poorly in terrain hostile to them.
Heros as agents
I believe there’s a hero in all of us… Hero as agents
In Stellaris there are various types of leaders for research, exploration, governance, combat, and espionage roles. I think that AOW heroes can fullfill all these roles with only minor changes, significantly improving the empire building aspect of the game. Perhaps a new AI element can be introduced to hero unit AI, which allow an active role to be selected for each hero: General (Army leaders, current behavior), Scholar, Governor, Spy, and Diplomat. Assigned roles provide appropriate bonuses to city or empire. Assigning roles also changes the behavior of the army lead by the hero, A big difference between AOW and Stellaris is that heroes would not disappear from the strategic map when assigned to non-combat roles.
Like in Stellaris, assigning heroes to various leadership duties could trigger random events. However, since AOW heroes are actual combat units, additional responses should become available when the hero processes certain skills or trait, see example events.
General: The hero’s leadership skills applies to all armies participating in a battle, not just their own.
Scholar: The hero’s army provide 2% research speed per hero level when present in domain of a city with laboratory. Hero gain experience equal to research cost when completing arcane research. Also provides 10 research per hero level when clearing an exploration site.
Governor: 20 city happiness and 2% gold income per hero level when present in domain of a city. Hero gain experience equal to gold cost when city complete a unit or building.
Spy: Hero’s party must be in the domain of a hostile city, and the owner must not be able to detect it.
Allows use of covert actions against that city from the spellbook (steal gold, siphon mana, steal tech, etc).
Diplomat: +10 relation per turn when in domain of a neutral, friendly, or vassal city. Half the turn timer to next tribute when in domain of vassal city. An army lead by a diplomat cannot initiate battle, nor could it enter battles as reinforcement.
In Stellaris there are various types of leaders for research, exploration, governance, combat, and espionage roles. I think that AOW heroes can fullfill all these roles with only minor changes, significantly improving the empire building aspect of the game. Perhaps a new AI element can be introduced to hero unit AI, which allow an active role to be selected for each hero: General (Army leaders, current behavior), Scholar, Governor, Spy, and Diplomat. Assigned roles provide appropriate bonuses to city or empire. Assigning roles also changes the behavior of the army lead by the hero, A big difference between AOW and Stellaris is that heroes would not disappear from the strategic map when assigned to non-combat roles.
Like in Stellaris, assigning heroes to various leadership duties could trigger random events. However, since AOW heroes are actual combat units, additional responses should become available when the hero processes certain skills or trait, see example events.
General: The hero’s leadership skills applies to all armies participating in a battle, not just their own.
Scholar: The hero’s army provide 2% research speed per hero level when present in domain of a city with laboratory. Hero gain experience equal to research cost when completing arcane research. Also provides 10 research per hero level when clearing an exploration site.
Governor: 20 city happiness and 2% gold income per hero level when present in domain of a city. Hero gain experience equal to gold cost when city complete a unit or building.
Spy: Hero’s party must be in the domain of a hostile city, and the owner must not be able to detect it.
Allows use of covert actions against that city from the spellbook (steal gold, siphon mana, steal tech, etc).
Diplomat: +10 relation per turn when in domain of a neutral, friendly, or vassal city. Half the turn timer to next tribute when in domain of vassal city. An army lead by a diplomat cannot initiate battle, nor could it enter battles as reinforcement.
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