Why do factories sometimes disappear from states when a puppet is released?

[Áurum]

This is something I've seen in many versions of HoI IV, vanilla and modded. I release a country and factories disappear from the states the puppet gets.

In one of my latest games, a state I owned had 14 factories. If I gave that state to another puppet of mine that had a core on it, the number of factories was reduced to 10. But if I released a puppet in that state, the number of factories was reduced to 4!

Does anybody know why this happens? Is it because of dispersed/concentrated technologies researched? But aren't puppets supposed to get all technologies researched by their master?

 

[Kazakk]

From my observations, I believe there's a maximum amount of factories a country can go above the state's limit. You know, tech and decisions allow for you to add extra slots, but when you release a country then those extra slots are lost.
I remember observing this when playing as Andalusia or whatever is that formable nation from the achievement.

 

[Áurum]

From my observations, I believe there's a maximum amount of factories a country can go above the state's limit. You know, tech and decisions allow for you to add extra slots, but when you release a country then those extra slots are lost.
I remember observing this when playing as Andalusia or whatever is that formable nation from the achievement.

Shouldn't released countries get the same technologies?

The country with the 10 factories was Russia, the one with 4 was Latvia. I don't think Russia owning Riga can go above any limit. In fact, Russia was the previous owner of Riga because I defeated it.

 

[Empire of Terra Nova]

maybe a bug? or they're aren't shown because transferred to you as overlord?

 

[Áurum]

maybe a bug? or they're aren't shown because transferred to you as overlord?

I'm not totally sure, but I think that the Occupied Puppet type doesn't give factories to the master.

Anyway, I've had that with different puppet types, both vanilla and modded.

 

[SRhistory]

This is something I've seen in many versions of HoI IV, vanilla and modded. I release a country and factories disappear from the states the puppet gets.

In one of my latest games, a state I owned had 14 factories. If I gave that state to another puppet of mine that had a core on it, the number of factories was reduced to 10. But if I released a puppet in that state, the number of factories was reduced to 4!

Does anybody know why this happens? Is it because of dispersed/concentrated technologies researched? But aren't puppets supposed to get all technologies researched by their master?

Have seen this before . But I always thought this was because of the puppet system. So the master not getting all the factories of the puppet. But as you tell it now ... well it doesn't look good. Could this be because of the tech level your puppet is on? If he is still on level 1 or so and you on 4 of 5 then you can create more factories in the state than your puppet. Once released... well the puppet will have less factories?
Hope someone got the correct answer?

 

[Áurum]

Have seen this before . But I always thought this was because of the puppet system. So the master not getting all the factories of the puppet. But as you tell it now ... well it doesn't look good. Could this be because of the tech level your puppet is on? If he is still on level 1 or so and you on 4 of 5 then you can create more factories in the state than your puppet. Once released... well the puppet will have less factories?
Hope someone got the correct answer?

I'll load that save tomorrow and tag switch to both puppets to see what they have. 10 out of 14 factories disappearing is not okay.

 

[Swamperino]

Every time a state changes hands, it loses a part of its factories. It's a very weird and unexplained mechanic.

 

[Question]

I vaugely remember that this is defined in the code somewhere. Maybe in the defines or an on_action. I cant recall exactly, but in vanilla, its setup so that you lose most of the factories in a state when the owner is changed.

Edit : Its in the defines, look for "OWNER_CHANGE_EXTRA_SHARED_SLOTS_FACTOR".

 

[SRhistory]

I vaugely remember that this is defined in the code somewhere. Maybe in the defines or an on_action. I cant recall exactly, but in vanilla, its setup so that you lose most of the factories in a state when the owner is changed.

Edit : Its in the defines, look for "OWNER_CHANGE_EXTRA_SHARED_SLOTS_FACTOR".

found it: OWNER_CHANGE_EXTRA_SHARED_SLOTS_FACTOR = 0.5, --Scale factor of extra shared slots when state owner change. So it down scale to 1/2 the factories. Nice to know. Thanks!

 

[Áurum]

I vaugely remember that this is defined in the code somewhere. Maybe in the defines or an on_action. I cant recall exactly, but in vanilla, its setup so that you lose most of the factories in a state when the owner is changed.

Edit : Its in the defines, look for "OWNER_CHANGE_EXTRA_SHARED_SLOTS_FACTOR".

found it: OWNER_CHANGE_EXTRA_SHARED_SLOTS_FACTOR = 0.5, --Scale factor of extra shared slots when state owner change. So it down scale to 1/2 the factories. Nice to know. Thanks!

I don't know if that's the reason. It doesn't explain why a puppet reduces the number of factories by 4 and the other, by 10. In fact, if I give the state to the country that reduces factories to 10, then reannex the state again using State Transfer Tool and then release the puppet, the number of factories is still 4. So the number of times it has changed ownership doesn't seem to affect the result. I've changed ownership of many states many times using STT and factories stayed there. They only disappear sometimes when puppets are released.

And I don't recall factories disappearing after peace deals. The number of factories shown in each state on the map during peace conferences is the number of factories they have later... right?

 

[Louella]

There's a bunch of things that could be happening.

First up is the number of building slots from the industrial techs. If the different potential owners have different levels of that researched then it'll drop if owner changes.

Then there's the number of "extra" slots from national focuses, and from some decisions. If the original owner was a one-state minor, that had completed a lot of focuses, that state can end up with a lot of extra slots. Like 8? Maybe ?

I'd suggest loading the earlier saved game and looking at the state. It should show the number of available build slots and what the base number of slots from state category is, and how many extra slots there are.

 

[Áurum]

There's a bunch of things that could be happening.

First up is the number of building slots from the industrial techs. If the different potential owners have different levels of that researched then it'll drop if owner changes.

Then there's the number of "extra" slots from national focuses, and from some decisions. If the original owner was a one-state minor, that had completed a lot of focuses, that state can end up with a lot of extra slots. Like 8? Maybe ?

I'd suggest loading the earlier saved game and looking at the state. It should show the number of available build slots and what the base number of slots from state category is, and how many extra slots there are.

That doesn't explain why 4 out of 14 factories are lost when I release the country that owned the state just before the capitulation and peace deal, does it? Giving the state to its previous owner should give the same number of factories.

 

[Louella]

That doesn't explain why 4 out of 14 factories are lost when I release the country that owned the state just before the capitulation and peace deal, does it? Giving the state to its previous owner should give the same number of factories.

I don't know, but if you look at the tooltip for number of extra slots in the state, before and after releasing the country, it might help to figure out what's going on.

Did you build any factories in the state affected ? Or do any focuses or decisions that might have affected the number of factories or building slots ?

 

[Áurum]

I don't know, but if you look at the tooltip for number of extra slots in the state, before and after releasing the country, it might help to figure out what's going on.

Did you build any factories in the state affected ? Or do any focuses or decisions that might have affected the number of factories or building slots ?

I annexed the country and then released it. I didn't build anything on it. Both our countries have spirits that increase building slots, but I don't think that explains the number of factories being reduced.

I've taken some screenshots of the windows that appears when you click on states and of the research of the countries involved. I'll post them tomorrow.

 

[Áurum]

Ok, I got screenshots:

Here's Moscow:

Before capitulation:

After annexation:

After I released Russia again:

Everything seems fine. Some factories are lost but I guess it's because I have less slots than Russia.

Here's Riga (a Russian core), the example I was mentioning earlier:

Before capitulation:

After annexation:

After releasing Russia:

After releasing Latvia instead:

It had 14 factories, none are lost when I annex it, but when I give it to Russia it has 10 factories and when I give it to Latvia it has 5 factories. If I give it to Russia and then reannex using State Transfer Tool and release Latvia, it has 5 factories anyway. Both Russia and Latvia have the same number of building slots, 15/25. I don't understand how this is supposed to work.

Here's about Kiev (a Russian core).

Before capitulation:

After annexation:

After releasing Russia:

After releasing Ukraine instead:

Here Russia has more building slots but the number of factories stays the same because it didn't go over the limit in any case.

Tallinn (also Russian core) got axed too.

Before capitulation:

After annexation:

After releasing Russia:

After releasing Estonia instead:

From 7 factories to just 2.

And the last one, Viipuri/Vyborg:

After annexation:

After releasing Russia:

After releasing Finland instead:

From 10 factories, Russia gets 7 and Finland gets 4.

Here is the research of involved countries after being released:

About spirits, my country and Russia had +10% max factories in a state and Estonia had -20%. The others didn't have anything about it:

I don't see any pattern of why factories disappear. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, even if researched technologies are the same.

 

[Question]

Did you already try changing the defines? Because thats why slots dissapear. Set it to 1.

Mouse over the 9/25 slots unlocked and it will tell you how many are extra slots.

 

[Louella]

Hmm. That's really odd.

The only other thing I can think of right now is that there's something in the state history files.

Are you using any other mods ? Are they mods that change states in any way ? Is it an alt history mod at all ? Does Latvia exist at the beginning ? Only thing I can think of now, is that something in the state history files is odd, like the number of factories initially is very low and when you release Latvia, something weird happens and the game is confused and loads the start number of factories in the state.

Really confusing.

 

[Áurum]

Hmm. That's really odd.

The only other thing I can think of right now is that there's something in the state history files.

Are you using any other mods ? Are they mods that change states in any way ? Is it an alt history mod at all ? Does Latvia exist at the beginning ? Only thing I can think of now, is that something in the state history files is odd, like the number of factories initially is very low and when you release Latvia, something weird happens and the game is confused and loads the start number of factories in the state.

Really confusing.

I'm using just Kaiserreich, that uses the same technologies and factory-related mechanics as vanilla, as far as I know. Anyway, I've seen the same issue in vanilla too in similar situations so I think it comes from the vanilla mechanics.

Latvia and Estonia didn't exist at the beginning and appeared first when I released them. Finland was alive until short before WW2 (think as if the USSR annexed Finland in the Winter War in vanilla). Ukraine existed until the end of WW2, when Russia annexed it.

In vanilla, I've had this when releasing Ukraine after defeating the USSR. As Ukraine doesn't exist at the start in vanilla, I guess it's the same situation as Latvia and Estonia in my Kaiserreich game.

I don't know about state history files, what are they?

 

[Louella]

In vanilla, I've had this when releasing Ukraine after defeating the USSR. As Ukraine doesn't exist at the start in vanilla, I guess it's the same situation as Latvia and Estonia in my Kaiserreich game.

I don't know about state history files, what are they?

Yeah, in vanilla, Ukraine starts with hardly any techs researched, so will lose a lot of factories if released. Not sure about Kaiserreich, will take a look, see if there's anything there.

State history files are in the history/states folder, and show the initial owner, if it's a core of a country, where the victory points are, what buildings exist, and so on.