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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #0

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Hello everyone!

Yes, you’re seeing this right. No, this isn’t a belated April Fools joke. After all these years, and all these memes, Victoria 3 really is confirmed at last. I’m Martin “Wiz” Anward, the Game Director of Victoria 3, and it’s my absolute pleasure to finally be able to reveal what I have been working on since 2018 (around the time I stepped down as Game Director of Stellaris).

So what, then, is Victoria 3? I can start by telling you that it’s most definitely a proper Victoria game - namely a game with a core focus on Economy, Politics and Internal Country Management and with the iconic Victoria Pop system not just included as a core mechanic but made even deeper than in either of its predecessors.

Though Victoria 3 is its own game and not an iteration on Victoria 2, our ambition is to create a worthy successor that stays true to the core values of the Victoria series while using what have learned over the last decade in terms of making games more accessible - so that we can use that accessibility to build an even deeper game for old and new players alike!

Our vision for Victoria 3 is to create what we call a ‘Society Sim’ - a game that is first and foremost about the internal workings of the 19th-century country that you are playing and how its society is shaped over the course of the game. Politics, Economy and Diplomacy are the three most important parts of the game - Wars are of course a part of the game (just as they were a part of the Victorian age), but Victoria 3 is *not* a wargame or a game about map painting.

Loading screen from Victoria 3 - “The Crystal Palace”
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Oh, and before you start speculating crazily about what is and is not in the game: No, there is no mana!

Now, there is going to be a lot of dev diaries going forward to dig into the mechanics of the game, but to wrap up this dev diary I want to briefly touch on the four game design pillars that we have been following when designing and building Victoria 3:
  • National Gardening: Building, shaping, tweaking and evolving your nation is the first and foremost focus of the game. Events outside your country’s borders can naturally affect your country in significant ways, but the game should never rely on war to provide the main source of enjoyment.
  • Diplomatic Eminence: War is a continuation of diplomacy, and everything that is achievable by war should also be achievable through diplomacy (even if that diplomacy sometimes comes at the point of a gun).
  • Everything is Political: Politics is at the heart of Victoria 3, and all major features should in some way tie back into the Pops and Interest Groups that form the core of the game’s politics.
  • Era of Change: The Victorian era was a time of immense change politically, technologically, culturally, militarily and socially, and these changes should be reflected in the experience of playing a campaign of Victoria 3.

That’s all for this week, but we’ll see you next week, when we’ll be talking about the return of the Victoria Pop System and the introduction of Dependents.

We'll also have a lot more exciting news to share as we go, so make sure to follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Discord, the Paradox Forums and the official Victoria 3 website to stay up to date.
 
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Is unilateral emancipation the only route to end slavery, or are things like manumission or compensated emancipation or deportation going to be options? Is there a route for reconstruction to integrate former slaves as a primary pops or is second class citizenship the best they can get? Is the player going to be able to affect the internal slave trade? How is balancing the free and slave states politically going to work?
 
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Now my trust into Wiz will have to compete with my disappointment over Imperator and the declining quality of both Stellaris & EUIV.

Curious to see what will come out of this.
 
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All the feature promises aside. I want to see the new fossils and natural history events
I dunno why, but the little newspaper snippets of "theory of evolution" and the piles of "newspapers" from around the world, made this game really memorable for me.
 
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I love it. Vic1 was the game that brought me to Paradox. I love the 19th century setting. Always hoped there would be Vic3, but never was really sure about it, now confirmed... a glorious day!
 
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Yay! I have been waiting for victoria 3 to come out so i wouldn't buy vicy2 and then vicky 3 comes along and ive wasted money.
I believe that spending a small amount of money for such an amazing game as Vicky 2 isn't wasting it as it still offers great fun.
 
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Martin! Johan! Everyone! Thanks. I’ve come back from the ded, i couldn’t believe my friend when he told me. Take your time. I’ll be shocked for quite a bit anyways lol!
 
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Look, I'm a Historian, from Brazil, and I have some ideas

I think I can summarize my recommendations to 3 points:
Correlations between immigration and political \ civil \ social reforms; 2 - Ideologies e political parties; 3 - Voting Rights.

1 - Vic2 involved immigration with basically 2 criteria: American countries started with a 200% advantage, but political reforms, especially voting rights, also provided a significant gain on immigration. In the end, these two criteria accounted for at least 4 \ 5 (perhaps more) of total immigration.

In practice, American countries with more progressive laws receive the majority of immigrants. Brazil and the USA are the biggest beneficiaries of this at the beginning of the game, but over the decades, Jacobin and socialist rebels win revolts and increased their countries populations with an immigration boost.

The problem is: According to the most recent data, few countries benefited with immigration during the Victorian period: USA 30 millions; Argentina 7 millions; Canada 4 millions; Brazil 4 millions; Australia 3 millions; Chile, Uruguay, New Zealand, South African 1 million ~ 500k; mexico 500k~250k; others: less than 250k.

As important as the immigrants' new home, is to distinguish their origin. And this is where we better understand the causes of immigration:
Apparently, there is a correlation between colonizing countries and colonized countries, another one about cultural niches, that share the same linguistic trunk, and another about border neighbors, but not necessarily with political, civil and social rights. The fact is that Spanish immigrants prefered Argentina, Portuguese immigrants prefered Brazil and British immigrants prefered USA, Canadá, Australia and New Zealand.
- But what about the Italians and Germans? They emigrated in greater numbers than Spaniards, Portuguese and British.

In fact, but the immigration of Italians and Germans was unevenly distributed. The vast majority of German immigrants went to the United States, while, although an Italian majority preferred the USA, the proportion of this preference was much lower. It's estimated that between 1870-1970, 6 million of Italians emigrated to the USA, 4.1 millions to France, 3.0 millions to Switzerland, 2.9 to Argentina, 2.4 to Germany, 1.5 to Brazil.

Why is all this important? because the most important criterion for a country to be stronger is the size of its population. Argentina, which was a continental power, recognized and feared by Brazilians, in vic2 was very weak because they don't receive immigrants (their political rights are very conservative). In contrast, any Latin American country submited to a Jacobin Revolution receives many immigrants and becomes a regional power. The game reward the bad player.

search for european, germany and italian diaspora, immigration for argentina, brazil, canadá, usa in wikipedia. these verbetes have reliable references







part 1\2
 

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2 - Liberal\Socialist\Conservative ideologies
2.1 - liberals and conservatives

I really think it would be interesting to create a modifier to measure how ideological, how pragmatic and how progressive ideologies and parties are. Vic2, for example, gave 100% of the liberal parliamentarians in favor of political and civil reforms, but in reality, liberal parties ruled throughout the West during the period and elected parliamentary majorities, and I don't know more than a few episodes where they established abrupt changes in voting rights or imposed abolitionist laws (like American Civil War). Conservatives signed many of the anti-slavery laws in latin-american, progressive conservatives recognized slavery was a huge problem, like liberals. In many countries, conservatives created or approved universal suffrage laws too. From the point of view of the most basic individual rights (vote and slavery), the 19st century dichotomy of vic2 (liberals vs conservative) was not so clear, because they were more pragmatic parties. Both were committed to ending slavery, at least in the long run, and did show commitment to universal suffrage in many countries (with Literacy high levels, or more plurarity political systems), but not in others (I'm talking about suffrage only). In many countries, Liberals and conservatives approved or supported the welfare policies too.

The problem with Vic2 was precisely to treat liberals as radical ideological and conservative as moderate reactionaries. They weren’t.

Maybe makes sense to link religious freedom, press freedom, basic voting rights (loosen the income criterion, allowing the middle class to vote) to liberals, but not much universal suffrage or abolitionism, because these questions was more complex and could undermine country’s stability. Although, is a fact that liberals was more progressive than conservatives and less progressive than socialists. Some conservatives are more reactionaries and don’t supports progressive laws so ease.

About the rebels: Jacobin rebels really make sense in Revolutionary France and Haiti, but don't makes sense to nickname 'jacobin rebels' for every liberal militants.

I think Vic 2 misses the point. The majority of liberal revolts in the belle époque\Victorian Era were a dispute between local elites and central governments. What was at stake was that the provinces wanted to have more autonomy against centralized regimes. Was very common that liberal elites fought by provincial or regional autonomy, descentralized political regimes and separatist purposes. They fought against centralizing governments (absolutist\authoritarian or merely unitarian regimes) in Brazil, Mexico, Switzerland, France, Portugal and many others; imperial governments that sounds like a ‘invader”, like austria and ottomans in balcans, or russia in polish-lithuanian regions, because the center of these empires didn't belong to the same cultural group of their subjects rebells; a third favorite target of liberal rebels was colonial territories of the colonial potences.

Examples of liberal revolts in the world during Victorian Era to prove what I say: the revolution of ayutla, 1st civil war, and war of Yucatán, in Mexico; the Sounderbound war, in Switzerland; The majority Independence war and revolts (long lisT); French Second Revolution; Revolutions of 1848 in Italy States; Eureka Rebellion, in colonial Australia; The Indian rebellion against British East Indian Company and Indian Independence, in India; 5 october, 1910 revolution, in Portugal; Revolution in the Kingdom of Poland; 1905 Russian Revolution; Finnish Civil War) .

Mostly, the revolt begins with an economic purpose, like dissatisfaction with high taxes, a minority with a political purpose, but whenever successful liberals revolts ends by "approving" a good portion of political rights. Of course, in separatist cases, there was a nationalist element that surpasses the liberal flag, but this type of revolt anticipated claims about political reform, and the liberal ideas was behind of the large majority separatists movements.

Not always the diferences were irreconcilable, some elements (belong to the same cultural group, for example) influenced local elites to approved a kind of federalist\confederalist constitution. I think the game could give the option to choose a more federalist\unitary constitution by providing different modifiers, for example:

A unitary constitution would reserve more taxes for the central government, more power to government in general, but the cost is a lot of political instability. A federalist\confederalist constitution cheaper infrastructure reforms in provinces and reduce the chances of separatist uprisings, but implies in a more weaker central government.

2.2 What about Socialists?

Apparently, the suffrage had more support from the leftists than from the liberals. Socialists (social-democrats), however, were always more ideological than pragmatic, they are most progressives (and sometimes this prejudicate the country’s economy and stability). Most countries passed the universal suffrage law just when the socialists became strong. In UK, for example, Labour Party was the first Party an advocate of universal suffrage for male and female.

At the same time, It doesn't seem to make so much sense to set a date for socialism to be born simultaneously across the world, at 1861. They didn't rising up so fast in the world. Only makes sense to exist socialism before the 20th century, if the country has already industrialized economy (at least 8%?) or a plural political system.

2.3. How conciliate all of that?

Vic2 brought interesting modifiers in some research: Talk about ‘political reform desire and‘ social reform desire ’. It would be really interesting to have more “conservative” liberals at the beginning of the game, but becoming more progressive when the country boosts the desire for political\social reform. Literacy is a point that should make parties more progressive as well. Some reforms should be heavier than others, for example, press freedom should have massive support from liberals, while antislavery laws should have pragmatic support from liberals and progressive conservatives. Historically, countries that depended heavily on slave labor passed laws that limited the supply of slaves, before abolishing slavery, with relative ease (support from liberals and conservatives): During the 1830s, the UK forces Latin American countries to abolish the slave trade. The “freedom of wombs” was a very common law too, all countries in South-America approved a law that ensures liberty for newborns and childs. (search for freedom of wombs). So, before abolishing, the slave population was already in sharp decline in Americas.

PS: But remember: Slavery abolition need happens before 20th century.

PS²:From the 1910s onwards emerged nationalists, communists or fascists, centralized modern regimes that represent a counterweight to the democratization of the countries.

The 3rd point: Voting rights discrimination

Well, Vic2 brings only one criterion of discrimination (income). The secondary criterion was proportional, something that gave the wealthier classes a more "heavy" vote, something based on the Prussian model. The problem is that, in practice, the Prussian model seems to have been restricted to Prussia, while the income criterion existed worldwide. Honestly, I see no reason to attribute different weights to the votes of the rich and the poor in around the world.

On the other hand, literacy was a discriminatory criterion that was present in the West during the Victorian Era. John Stuart Mill serves as a reference on this subject. I'm not sure, but I imagine that he was the first and influential public person to propose this discrimination., Mill proposed to end the wealth vote (exclusion by income) and propose create a barrier for the illiterate. Other types of discriminations policies involves: gender discrimination (a universal discrimination, more important than literacy), immigration discrimination (very common too), ethnical discrimination, etc. (again: Search for Universal suffrage on wikipedia, this link have many informations, can contribute a LOT!).
 
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I'm sorry if this is not a place for that, I am a regular player of Victoria who wants a game as realistic as possible and I discovered many of these things after becoming obsessed with the game.

I can't send links, so I can't show my references.

But it's true, I am a historian and the things I said have scientific proof.
 
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I'm sorry if this is not a place for that, I am a regular player of Victoria who wants a game as realistic as possible and I discovered many of these things after becoming obsessed with the game.

I can't send links, so I can't show my references.

But it's true, I am a historian and the things I said have scientific proof.
First off, welcome to the forums! This isn't necessarily the "wrong" place to put this information, but you may be well served by creating a new topic on this forum (follow the "Victoria 3" link on the "Forums > Unreleased Games > Victoria 3" navbar on top of this page, then click on the "Post thread" button on the right-hand side) and copy that information over so it is more easily visible than on page 25 of a Developer Diary; although I think it is likely that a staff member will see your post even if it remains here.

In any case, it is some mighty interesting information and even if the game were too far along development to include this information in its populational model (I have no idea if it is), it might still be useful for a version 1.1 or 1.2 adjustment. Keep up the good work!
 
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Day two of asking for march of the eagles 3.
 
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I am pretty hopeful that this well be good, but still guarded due to some of Paradox's poor choices recently. But everyone can make mistakes and everyone can correct them. Though what I see so far validates my hopes.
 
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