Handling two kingdoms

[A Greek General]

I'm currently in the middle of my first game (early 13th century, continuing from the tutorial start in Ireland). I've watched and read a lot of tutorial material outside of the in-game help.

I've managed to become King of Ireland and then King of Scotland (which became the "Kingdom of Alba" for some reason). My character therefore holds two kingdoms, as well as two duchies and three counties. All other de jure duchies are held by his vassals (some of them are from his dynasty).

The character is 64 years old, has two sons and two daughters. Although it might be possible for him to confront England — allies are numerous and powerful — and theoretically get enough duchies to claim the Emperor title, there will never be enough time for this before he dies.

The culture is not sufficiently advanced in order to pass the primogeniture law (I am only at 3 innovations out of 19 in the "High Medieval" culture timeline).

Unavoidably, it seems, his two sons will get a kingdom each and I will continue playing with the eldest of the two.

So I'm wondering about the options at this point. Is it a necessity to do all of the above quickly enough to gain two kingdoms, plus an emperor title, within the lifetime of one character? Because otherwise the only consequence I see, following my current character's death, is to play as the King of Ireland again with his brother as the King of Alba, and start a war between brothers. This would certainly be very thematic, but I'd like to know if something else can be done.

I'm very new to the game, with only a bit of experience from CK2, so please keep that in mind. Thanks.

 

[Tuo]

If you are the head of your dynasty, an easy and quick solution would be to disinherit one of your two sons, leaving the other son as the sole heir. There are other solutions as well - for instance, if you have partition (instead of confederate partition), you could destroy one of the kingdom titles, so your younger son wouldn't have an equal level title to inherit, and would instead become a vassal of your older son. Or, of course, if an unfortunate accident were to happen and one of your sons was to face an untimely death in battle, there would be no concern for split inheritance...

 

[HoneyBadger88]

If you are the Dynasty/House Head, which I believe you should be, you can disinherit one of the sons to prevent a split. Also, if you are following a faith that has monasticism doctrine, I believe you should be able to force on your sons to become a monk, thus removing him from succession.

 

[Battlex]

I'm currently in the middle of my first game (early 13th century, continuing from the tutorial start in Ireland). I've watched and read a lot of tutorial material outside of the in-game help.

I've managed to become King of Ireland and then King of Scotland (which became the "Kingdom of Alba" for some reason). My character therefore holds two kingdoms, as well as two duchies and three counties. All other de jure duchies are held by his vassals (some of them are from his dynasty).

The character is 64 years old, has two sons and two daughters. Although it might be possible for him to confront England — allies are numerous and powerful — and theoretically get enough duchies to claim the Emperor title, there will never be enough time for this before he dies.

The culture is not sufficiently advanced in order to pass the primogeniture law (I am only at 3 innovations out of 19 in the "High Medieval" culture timeline).

Unavoidably, it seems, his two sons will get a kingdom each and I will continue playing with the eldest of the two.

So I'm wondering about the options at this point. Is it a necessity to do all of the above quickly enough to gain two kingdoms, plus an emperor title, within the lifetime of one character? Because otherwise the only consequence I see, following my current character's death, is to play as the King of Ireland again with his brother as the King of Alba, and start a war between brothers. This would certainly be very thematic, but I'd like to know if something else can be done.

I'm very new to the game, with only a bit of experience from CK2, so please keep that in mind. Thanks.

Alba is a localisation of Scotland because of your culture.
You can destroy the non primary Kingdom as said above provided your succession is higher than confederate partition, otherwise the title will just be recreated and handed to your second son

 

[Battlex]

If you are the Dynasty/House Head, which I believe you should be, you can disinherit one of the sons to prevent a split. Also, if you are following a faith that has monasticism doctrine, I believe you should be able to force on your sons to become a monk, thus removing him from succession.

The issue is then if you get murdered before you have a son your sisters would inherit and so possibly lose the dynasty

 

[Evethor]

Total Crown Authority and the "House seniority" succesion law also lets you designate one of your children as the only heir.

 

[A Greek General]

Thank you very much for all the answers. I didn't know of the option to disinherit. My current succession law is "partition" (not confederate), I'll see what I can do...

Cheers.

 

[Tuo]

Total Crown Authority and the "House seniority" succesion law also lets you designate one of your children as the only heir.

Designating a heir only designates your primary heir - it does not get around partition (though what you can do is to temporarily designate a heir, then in advance grant titles to your intended heir, and designate that heir again - but in this case, that'd mean you'd have to leave one of your kingdoms independent until succession). And I recall there being a nasty issue with designating a heir with house seniority - I'm not sure if it's fixed yet, but if you designated a heir while having house seniority succession, all your titles would follow house seniority, while your player heir would be the designated child - leading to a game-over due to your player heir ending up with no landed titles.

 

[Oglesby]

I would suggest one of the culture based succession types for your kingdoms and push for the same son to inherit both. I am assuming since you are king of Ireland that would be Tanistry Elective (but I guess could be Saxon or Scandinavian elective).

 

[T86]

Designating a heir only designates your primary heir - it does not get around partition (though what you can do is to temporarily designate a heir, then in advance grant titles to your intended heir, and designate that heir again - but in this case, that'd mean you'd have to leave one of your kingdoms independent until succession). And I recall there being a nasty issue with designating a heir with house seniority - I'm not sure if it's fixed yet, but if you designated a heir while having house seniority succession, all your titles would follow house seniority, while your player heir would be the designated child - leading to a game-over due to your player heir ending up with no landed titles.

Last time i tried it worked perfectly like a primogeniture (Haus-Sennex + Designated Hair)


Most elegant way, i find to keep your Kingdom together is just elective succsession.

 

[A Greek General]

since you are king of Ireland that would be Tanistry Elective

I don't think I can do that yet as my culture isn't advanced enough.

But sometimes problems fix themselves: I reloaded my saved game to try the aforementioned methods (disinherit and destroy title) and a couple of months later the younger son died in some battle I didn't pay attention to (which could have been a catastrophe otherwise). Problem solved.

 

[generalis Julius Caesar]

just elective succsession.

Yup, it is amazing for doing that. or just be sadistic and murder you children

 

[Battlex]

I don't think I can do that yet as my culture isn't advanced enough.

But sometimes problems fix themselves: I reloaded my saved game to try the aforementioned methods (disinherit and destroy title) and a couple of months later the younger son died in some battle I didn't pay attention to (which could have been a catastrophe otherwise). Problem solved.

Tanistry is meant to be available from the get go due to culture and not an innovation, check changing your title laws

 

[DorostheConquer]

I'm currently in the middle of my first game (early 13th century, continuing from the tutorial start in Ireland). I've watched and read a lot of tutorial material outside of the in-game help.

I've managed to become King of Ireland and then King of Scotland (which became the "Kingdom of Alba" for some reason). My character therefore holds two kingdoms, as well as two duchies and three counties. All other de jure duchies are held by his vassals (some of them are from his dynasty).

The character is 64 years old, has two sons and two daughters. Although it might be possible for him to confront England — allies are numerous and powerful — and theoretically get enough duchies to claim the Emperor title, there will never be enough time for this before he dies.

The culture is not sufficiently advanced in order to pass the primogeniture law (I am only at 3 innovations out of 19 in the "High Medieval" culture timeline).

Unavoidably, it seems, his two sons will get a kingdom each and I will continue playing with the eldest of the two.

So I'm wondering about the options at this point. Is it a necessity to do all of the above quickly enough to gain two kingdoms, plus an emperor title, within the lifetime of one character? Because otherwise the only consequence I see, following my current character's death, is to play as the King of Ireland again with his brother as the King of Alba, and start a war between brothers. This would certainly be very thematic, but I'd like to know if something else can be done.

I'm very new to the game, with only a bit of experience from CK2, so please keep that in mind. Thanks.

You can:

1. make a beeline for Emperor; Wales might be a good choice for your third Kingdom, as it is close and small. Once you have that third kingdom and become Emperor, your realm will stay intact
2. do the "war between brothers" thing
3. disinherit your crappier son with your dynastic powers
4. disinherit your crappier son by sending him to a monastery (if you have the religion and hooks to do so)
5. try to get your crappier son killed, e.g. by making him a knight and sending him on a suicide mission
6. switch to an elective succession
7. edit your save file so that your culture/title has Primogeniture

 

[x4077]

1. make a beeline for Emperor; Wales might be a good choice for your third Kingdom, as it is close and small. Once you have that third kingdom and become Emperor, your realm will stay intact
2. do the "war between brothers" thing
3. disinherit your crappier son with your dynastic powers
4. disinherit your crappier son by sending him to a monastery (if you have the religion and hooks to do so)
5. try to get your crappier son killed, e.g. by making him a knight and sending him on a suicide mission
6. switch to an elective succession
7. edit your save file so that your culture/title has Primogeniture

8. Just imprison the crappier son and throw him in the dungeon to die. The tyranny hit is minimal compared to the benefits of having a single heir.

Personally, I don't understand why anybody in this game takes a fertile female spouse at all, controlling your succession is so much easier by just taking lovers and cherry picking your heir from your bastards/wild oats.

 

[A Greek General]

Thank you @DorostheConquer and @x4077 for listing all the options.

Tanistry is meant to be available from the get go due to culture and not an innovation, check changing your title laws

Unless I'm looking in the wrong place, I don't see tanistry anywhere in my available succession laws (cf. screenshot).

 

[Battlex]

Thank you @DorostheConquer and @x4077 for listing all the options.



Unless I'm looking in the wrong place, I don't see tanistry anywhere in my available succession laws (cf. screenshot).

It's not a realm succession but a title succesion law, so pick a title and click add a law or whatever and it should be there. That's also how you access Scandinavian succesion or saxon elective if you don't already have it

 

[A Greek General]

It's not a realm succession but a title succesion law

Found it! Thanks a lot.

 

[babuchas1]

Yes, going for elective succession is probably the safest and best solution in the long run.

 

[A Greek General]

A lesson I've learned the hard way: before you do any of the above, check if there are any claimants to one of your two kingdoms and deal with it *before* succession happens. I had a faction comprising half my realm formed against me and claiming my other kingdom less than a year after inheriting both.