Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Dev Diary #7: Combat Units 2

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Yeah the game's not set on Earth, there's no actual dinosaurs. If you look closely the lancer mount has smooth skin, not scaly and it even has defined mammal-like ears. It's almost like a furless tiger with the stripes. The neck crest and bone protrusions on the tail are dino-like though.
 
Yeah, the ridge, arguably facial shape, and the tail are the main 'dinosaur-like' features. The rest of the body shape looks relatively feline or canine, with a form of split-toe hooves.
 
That ammunition is not explosive ammunition and a bullet isnt going to set them off, think of it more like the fuel tank; you make those thick. Its called a Bulwark; it should be definition be heavily armored (even though the other definition is just a defender) and being a Dvar unit it should thematically be armored too, at least more armored than fast moving scout bikes that dont even have doors You could just as easily argue that its ALREADY slowed down in armor at 24 speed, and since its one of the few things they actually built for combat as opposed to retrofitted so it should have more armor than most of their other stuff since you dont need combat armor for mining.

If the ammunition is chemically propelled, it's still going to be potentially dangerous if an attack lands in the ammo compartment even if the shell itself is a pure kinetic penetrator. A HE round cooking off may be worse than a kinetic anti-armour round cooking off, but the latter is still bad enough.

Furthermore, once you get through the armour, then whatever's on the inside is going to be something you'd rather not be hit with. I went with ammunition because the Bulwark is relatively small for something that has a total of ten barrels - in order to keep firing for any extended period of time - especially if it's carrying multiple ammunition types - a lot of that internal space is probably given over to ammunition. However, if an attack is getting though the armour, it's likely hitting something important. The more dangerous a hit in a particular area, the more armour is likely to be over it, but a penetrating hit is likely hitting something that the designers would have preferred not to be hit, and meanwhile you might have spalling and/or the original penetrator still ricocheting around inside the cavity. Tanks and other armoured vehicles are surprisingly fragile once you get something that can penetrate the armour - a big animal (particularly one produced by advanced bioengineering) might well be more able to take those hits (and it is worth mentioning that the size of the Bulwark's weapons do appear to be antipersonnel in nature, although it's hard to say just what caliber they're supposed to be firing).

Adding more armour might seem to be intuitively obvious... at the risk of Godwinning the thread, Hitler would agree with that, as shown by the Panthers and Tigers of World War 2. Both were designed to be lighter than their final production weight, but Hitler insisted in up-armouring them: which did have the intended effect of making them very tough for the standard Allied and Russian guns at the time to crack, but also added several tons to their weight (the Panther actually ended up in the weight class that the Tiger was originally intended to be in. This caused serious logistical problems: they were slower than what the Wehrmacht had asked for, it wasn't practical for either to have a drive train that could handle pushing their final weight causing the notorious mechanical unreliability of the 'big cats', and in the case of the Tiger, it was so heavy that standard transportation and breakdown recovery options available at the time often just didn't work for it. Put bluntly, while they were reasonably well suited for the defensive war the Wehrmacht ended up mostly fighting after Kursk, they were poorly suited for the kind of war the Germans wanted to fight.

The Bulwark might well have a similar consideration: you could put more armour on it, but it wouldn't simply be a matter of just slapping extra armour on: you'd need a more powerful engine, stronger legs, and other improvements to maintain the same performance, ideally without taking up more internal space. Stuff which they probably could do, but which would make the Bulwark more expensive (in game terms, bump it up to a higher tier). Instead, when push came to shove, the Dvar engineers decided they'd prefer to have two Bulwarks that were relatively fragile but did the job, over one tougher Bulwark. A justifiable decision, if the Bulwark's role is essentially to provide fire support to the Dvar front line rather than being put on the front line itself.

Sigh...maybe its just because I feel dinosaurs are super lame, and am disappointed when I see them braught back in SiFi or fantasy. Imho the best thing about them is that they´re extinct.
And they were very primitive lifeforms: jaws unable of lateral movement or chewing, only one type of teeth per species, bad eyes, no external ear parts to improve hearing...guess they were just as subuptimal in areas I know less about. So, if I were tasked with bioengeneering a superior lifeform for battle, dinos definitly wouldn´t be my starting point of choice. Thats also why Zerg and Aliens kind of work for me as enemies in SiFi, but dinos(enchanced or not) don´t.
That... does not match with the opinion of most paleontologists, and smacks of the old 'dinosaurs deserved to become extinct and replaced with more evolved mammals' thinking of some decades ago. More recent studies have indicated that in many of these areas, dinosaurs actually outperformed even modern mammals: hadrosaur jaws and teeth were quite complex (although they operated differently to mammalian jaws, they certainly were capable of both lateral movement and chewing); the eyes of tyrannoraptors were actually more impressive than modern birds of prey*; and we have little idea about external ear parts because soft tissue and cartilage doesn't fossilise well, but modern birds seem to do well enough. Dinosaurs were, after all, dominant for much longer than mammals (although mammals also started becoming larger earlier than many people think: as most dinosaur groups grew in size, mammals also grew to fill ecological niches vacated as the dinosaurs that formerly occupied them grew larger) - in most evolutionary considerations except brain capacity, mammals still lag behind what dinosaurs achieved. (Keep in mind that, compared to the age of dinosaurs, the age of mammals would still be roughly in the early Jurassic, or maybe the early Cretaceous if you consider the true reign of dinosaurs to have started with the Triassic-Jurassic extinctions.)

*Most mammals actually have relatively poor eyesight for daytime conditions, due to spending most of the Mesozoic being nocturnal and therefore having eye structures suited for daytime vision atrophy away over millions of years of evolution. Humans probably have the best eyesight of any mammal - primates regained trichromal vision (most mammal groups are dichromal) in order to distinguish between different kinds and ripenesses of fruit, and human ancestors had additional evolutionary pressure towards good eyesight when they started throwing things as a hunting strategy. Birds have us beat by a country mile, though.
 
On the other hand the mount looks like packed with techno stuff. Nowadays there are many emerging technologies to correct functions of the body (malfunctioning, because it's the most important purpose and because of ethics). Where I'm getting at is that if we are able to mimic biological function with technology so if there is nowadays titanium in bone prosthesis or eye or hear implants to correct malfunctions it doesn't sounds that far-fetched to imagine than one day people will want and be able to achieve to do better than what nature did.

Saying mechanical fancies is better than biological stuff is also ignoring than some biological mechanisms are still unmatched in terms of efficiency, the body is very efficient in energy consumption, more than what usual machinery achieves. Most of modern technology is also directly inspired from organism, like how bird fly is studied to optimize airships, how animals can walk on walls is adaptated to creating super sticky things,... The shape of bird wings is after all the result of a very long and complex adaptative process.
 
To add to Draxynic's comments, the Bulwark appeared to be closer to a powered exoskeleton than a walking tank.
The reason is that autocannons are weapon of IFVs, not tanks. An autocannon will bounce right off actual tanks, so tanks usually carry something more appropriate for fighting another tank.
For all we know this is a space dwarf's idea of a heavy infantryman and a mean to compensate for their height. No idea how appropriate the armor value will be until we see how big it is in game.
tldr: Bulwark could be a terminator instead of a dreadnought.
 
A little off topic;

Will units still have endless champion medals? That was a good system and kept lower tier units viable.

Will Heroes have stacking abilities, and will we be able to have heroes with no level cap through this system? The most disappointing part of AoW 3 was that each upgrade was considered a separate ability, and the level cap was disapointing because it couldn't ne touched by mods. That and, only a few abilities naturally stacked. It'd be nice if, instead of multiple "+5 Hitpoint" upgrades, there was just one that increased in cost for every time you picked that upgrade.

You've mentioned there won't be negative shields or armor, which makes sense as "0" might as well work for a weakness in this area. But what about elemental protections? Will we be able to have "20% fire weakness" (to use an AoW term)?

So far the unit designs look great. Do they function like in AoW 3 when mods could use the same model of a unit but attach different gear and weapons?
 
Endless champion medals are not in right now, we're relying on high end mods to make early game units viable. They might come back though.

What you described for hero skills is unfortunately not compatible with how the system works, though in theory a modder could add an endless number of extra stat boosting mods.

You can give units elemental vulnerability, which works like negative armor. So Thermal Weakness 5 means that 5 is subtracted from your armor/shield value, and that result can be negative.

Yes, units are made with separate weapons, so a modder could swap the quipment between units.
 
How come no-one has posted speculation on what looks to be a Hovercraft, in the DVAR screenshot where we saw what we assume to be their infantry (the guys with heavy riot looking shields.)

Even if endless champion is not a thing, will the EXp counter continue ? I once had a 300 exp shade in SM, still nice to see how useful a unit has been.

I'm playing a modded version of AoW3 where the AI gets a huge experience boost, and let me say, it works for increasing the challenge, when you find yourself up against Champion Stiorm sisters etc.

I'm playing as a Frostling Warlord, and I have a Champion 3 Mammoth Rider...that is just fun!
 
I don't like the champion medals, it really trivialize the dungeon dwelling battles. Never thought of giving extra xp to the AI though, that does sound like a good idea to make up for the heavy loss it takes through auto resolve.
 
If that is their heavy infantry than their heavy tanks had better be buildings with treads
Honestly, I could see exactly that. Jawa sandcrawler covered with guns.

The point people are making is a valid one: the Bulwark does not appear to be that big (the bike might even be bigger, and the Lancer's mount almost certainly is if the images are to scale). To use 40K analogies, it's probably in the weight class of a Sentinel or War Walker rather than a tank (or a Goliath if comparing to Starcraft) and if anything, it'd be smaller rather than larger than any of those. If it's manned at all, it's a relatively light one-Dvar vehicle, with the low speed reflecting that a powerful engine was a lower priority than weapons and ammunition. The actual tanks (or equivalents) would be bigger and tougher.
 
I don't like the champion medals, it really trivialize the dungeon dwelling battles. Never thought of giving extra xp to the AI though, that does sound like a good idea to make up for the heavy loss it takes through auto resolve.
Technically the A.I., at least at higher difficulties, already get passive bonuses to Def/Res in battles against Independents. Pretty sure it doesn't apply for auto-battles against other A.I., since they would both get it, just making the battle take more hits for both sides(and favoring Physical damage, incidentally, due to how non-Physical channels generally work out).
 
AssaultBike.png
Bulwark.png
Why both vehicle models so poorly detailed? I remember same problem in AoW3.