Hearts of Iron IV - 45th Development Diary - 19th of February 2016

[EntropyAvatar]

An axis of attack is all very well but Divisions only use it as a guide and while the more direct and straight the axis of attack the more likely Divisions will not stray it seems to me that an axis of attack is not particularly useful for PZ Divisions if you want to make wide sweeping curves to form pincers.

As far as I can tell, defining a front-line and an arrow path defines a sequence of provinces that will be taken in order (and you can see which provinces and which order via the animation). So if it's a broad front and a straight path, the provinces are taken one layer at a time. If it's a narrow front and you drag the arrow far to the side, the set of provinces should be a curving path one or two provinces wide, taken in sequence. So I think you can get pretty close to defining the exact path.

The potential trouble I see is if you want to distribute Panzer divisions along that path as you go so the enemy doesn't simply take the ground behind you.

 

[Mindmeld_me]

Great information and answered a lot of my questions on battle plans, specifically setup and manual control. Looks like a great combination of setup and forget it for a sideline area and occupation and overall front line control and adjustment. Likely a learning curve but so far looks really good.

 

[RVallant]

- there wont be historical plans already made no.
- I HOPE so, we were just discussing it in fact. if all else fails I'll make some in my spare time and put on youtube.

Awesome, cheers.

 

[Piggy]

This is the feature I'm waiting the most for this game (as I'm very bad at micromanaging every division during Barbarossa), and it seems it'll meet the expectations !

Yeah, as much as I liked micro management, the thought of planning, and then actually organizing all the divisions, corps, armies & army groups literally took me an entire sitting/night of playing. By the end I would be comepletely spent!

 

[Mack674]

Release date, March 12.


2017.

 

[fabius]

It depends how you set it up, you can activate the whole plan or just the first step.
the bonus is per unit, so if you add a unit it wont be prepared, but it wont affect the rest.
yes you can pause a plan and resume later.
yes they go back to the plan afterwards, so its easy to go in, send some panzers to swat a pocket or do an encirclement and not have to babysit them while they do it as they head back automatically.

These are really great touches and functions that show the value of their testing and iterations paying off !

yes Ai will make plans and you can see them if you toggle "show allied plans" next to mapmodes. There is no strict "cooperation" system (would love to make one for an expansion) but you can see when AI will launch it and such so you can coordinate yourself to that (we'll talk more about that in invasion diary).

Thanks for answering this. Great that the AI makes and uses plans. And, co-operation at some point would be awesome.

 

[Nitan17]

If I understand correctly - we create a Battle Plan, our units slowly get a planning bonus, and after we activate the plan, AI moves our units according to it. However, could it be possible to NOT have AI controlling the units, while still being able to create a Battle Plan and get the planning bonus? You wrote "even units given manual order as part of a plan will gain this bonus by the way", but will we be able to turn off AI assistance completely, or will we be forced to fight AI, because as soon as our manual order ends, it would take control of the unit once again?

I heavily dislike any "help" from AI and would prefer to do everything myself, but if it meant inability to create Battle Plans and get the planning bonus, that would be a pretty big disadvantage compared to AI countries - they get the bonus, but the player does not, only because he wanted to manage his armies himself.

 

[EntropyAvatar]

No, you can modify quite a lot right now for no penalty. we are a bit too nice with it. might change towards release. the important thing is that units dont have to move to accommodate your plan changes if you dont want to lose the preparation.

Thanks for clarifying. If I make manual deviations from the plan after it is launched, does that cause the affected units to lose their planning bonus? If not, I don't see how any changes to the plan (that don't require changing the starting point) would strip out the bonus. Otherwise you get a perverse situation where people are avoiding using the planning tool and going manual just to keep their bonus.

 

[CyberianK]

The problem with that is if you pick the mobile doctrine your planning bonus can only be 1/2 of what the grand battleplanner bonus is no matter how long or deep the plan is.

I guess that's the design of it though the mobile doctrine player needs to start in on them early and never let up or give them the opportunity to get to the point where they can use their entire bonus.

Also there is a field marshal trait that further increases planning bonus. If a mobile one with such a marshal fights against one with grand battleplan with such a marshal its no longer double the advantage but only +50% of what the mobile guy has.
If the grand battleplan guy does not have one then they are on par which could be the case for example for a battle hardened Axis army against one which wasn't fighting so much.

What is unclear to me if defending a line or guarding an area also gives a bonus. And if so when does it go away as the offensive plans seem to disappear after a while while advancing on the front.

Also can the disappearing be exploited if it disappears across the advancing line? If you draw an assault vector all the way from Poland up to Wladiwostok does the bonus disappear slower then of you would draw that line only to Moscow? If so peoples would draw their attack plans longer then they really want to which would be bad so it might be best to go for a time factor here instead of progress along the line.

 

[Devout]

Can I have sequential plans that I can activate one after the other for bonuses?

For example:

Let's say I plan Case Oh-Fudge, an invasion of the Soviet Union with a main axis of advance towards Leningrad. I assign the 1st Really Awesome Guderian's Personal Army Group to the plan. I execute the plan and Guderian's Army Group takes Leningrad on D+35. His army group is exhausted and out of planning bonuses.

Can I then activate Case What-In-The-Hell-Are-We-Going-To-Do-Now, a turn towards Moscow from Leningrad (no matter how impractical this might actually be) with 2nd Not Quite As Awesome Rommel's Personal Army Group that has been preparing for 35 days (no combat)? Will they get the bonus for 35 days of prep (if the doctrine allows it) even though that plan assumes control of Leningrad, something we didn't have until yesterday? The units are different and the plan is different, so yes? Or no?

If I understand your example correctly, I think you bring up some additional questions.
1. What happens if you select a frontline that is in enemy territory? I assume the units will move to that line prior to planning. But what if you select the frontline in neutral territory? Can your troops start planning even if they haven't reached the frontline?
2. Based on the example above. Can you create a frontline at the Poland border to Soviet Union. Create a plan. Manually move the units 1/2 way to the target, and then activate the battle plan from there. Will the units move back to the frontline start point? Will they continue the battleplan? Will the battleplan be canceled?

 

[EntropyAvatar]

What is unclear to me if defending a line or guarding an area also gives a bonus. And if so when does it go away as the offensive plans seem to disappear after a while while advancing on the front.

I'd assume that they would have to have some bonus, but maybe it takes effect and starts ticking down once you "activate" it?

Also can the disappearing be exploited if it disappears across the advancing line? If you draw an assault vector all the way from Poland up to Wladiwostok does the bonus disappear slower then of you would draw that line only to Moscow? If so peoples would draw their attack plans longer then they really want to which would be bad so it might be best to go for a time factor here instead of progress along the line.

Planning bonus already ticks down based on time, not distance.

 

[narril]

This is one of the cool things I'm really waiting for!
About the plan bonuses and such, this seems to model it pretty good, fast paced movements of mobile warfare needs to create new plans often as front changes and moves fast.
Plan decay fits well into this, one famous fieldmarshall said over 100 years ago "No battle plan ever survives contact with the enemy"

 

[grandad1982]

When the AI will execute the Battle plan, will it select the best unit under its command to attack a specific province depending of the terrain? Will it send tanks attack mountains and INF attacks plains, like in HoI3 ?

Nice dd, really looking forward to playing with this system.

I would like to echo the question in the quoted post above. Does the battle plan ai make intelligent use of units in regard to terrain?

 

[magnusvejby]

I really hope its not gonna be too hard to get in to, and the way they are gonna make this looks like it's gonna be strategial but not too hard. If this is well made, it could be the best HOI of all time.

 

[hkrommel]

What happens if another player is preparing a plan and you attack them before preparations are complete? Do they lose their entire bonus?

 

[Mr Burgundy]

Good old Britain next week. Fish'n'chips, pints at the pub, battleships, commandos, Spitfires and Mosquitos.

 

[andersonm]

This is great... I felt like HoI 3 had either way too much micromanagement on manual or complete lack of control with the assigned objective system. I definitely prefer making an elaborate plan and then initiating it rather than controlling every unit... but you have still left the option to make critical changes during the battle. I was not totally sure if I was going to get the game on release but this puts it over the top for me.

 

[joeenochs]

Dear Podcat,
The AI not trying to be smart but responsive to player control is a good choice I think.

"Even units given manual order as part of a plan will gain this bonus by the way"

I don't see how this sentence without any "but" would not render the whole planning bonus obsolete. I do a pro forma plan and then I do everything manual in a different way.

In general I would like to see a real choice between using the planning system well and micromanaging everything where both can be the better strategy depending on the circumstances. One big downside of using the AI in HOI3 was that is was so much suboptimal from a gameplay persepective that it broke the immersion for me.

Edit: Maybe I spotted at least one "but" in the screen shot. Units moving away from the plan lose their bonus. This means you need to at least follow the plan roughly to receive the bonus. Am I right? However that means for optimal game play you need to master plans as well as using manual control effectively. Or is their any other disadvantage?

 

[Beangg]

Joeenochs, I'm think of the planning bonus more as getting everyone ready, rested and the logistics all in line. It's not the magnificence of the plan, but rather the level of preparation to act that brings the advantage.

 

[Thrake]

That certainly looks like a strong compromise beetween micro and macro, automation and manual control and will probably add to the feel of commanding armies. I hope though that going away from the plan too much would incur penalties at some point, that would add a nice layer of strategy I think instead of just being a convenience feature.