Plvs Vltra Italy

[Toio]

Venice event

With the introduction of slaves as oarsmen in about 15% of venetian galleys ( as oriiginally all oarsmen where soldiers , like vikings ) , the greek men in support for venice did not venture away from greek lands anymore, they stayed as defensive troops for venice. Venice , apart from its dalmatian and italian land manpower, started to use the grisons, saxons, lorraine and brunswick troops as hired mercenary trrops. The grisons fed venetian armies for 165 years. changes below


#(1545-1549) Enforced Galley Service
event = {
id = 326010
random = no
country = VEN
name = "EVENTNAME326010" #Enforced Galley Service
desc = "EVENTHIST326010"
#-#Until 1545 the oarsmen in the galleys were free sailors enrolled on a wage. They were originally Venetians, but later Dalmatians, Cretans and Greeks joined in large numbers. Because of the difficulty in hiring sufficient crews, Venice had recourse to conscription, chaining the oarsmen to the benches as other navies had already done.

date = { day = 3 month = october year = 1545 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 29 month = december year = 1549 }

action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME326010A" #Pressgang
command = { type = manpower value = 2 }
command = { type = stability value = -1 }
command = { type = galleys which = -1 value = 20 }
command = { type = remove_countryculture which = greek }
command = { type = naval value = 750 }
}
action_b = {
name = "ACTIONNAME326010B" #Old system is best
command = { type = treasury value = -50 }
command = { type = population which = 370 value = -2000 } #Veneto
}
}

 

[ConjurerDragon]

Venice event
...}

Isn´t 1545 to 1549 far too early for Venice to lose greek culture? They still continued to rule e.g. Cyprus until 1571, Crete until the Siege of Candia 1669 and Morea after it´s conquest until 1715.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/Venezianische_Kolonien.png

Isn´t event VEN 326080 more approbiate to remove greek culture as it is?

 

[Toio]

Isn´t 1545 to 1549 far too early for Venice to lose greek culture? They still continued to rule e.g. Cyprus until 1571, Crete until the Siege of Candia 1669 and Morea after it´s conquest until 1715.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/Venezianische_Kolonien.png

Isn´t event VEN 326080 more approbiate to remove greek culture as it is?

its not about ruling greek, its about available manpower for Venice and the greeks stopped supplying men for service outside of greek lands. the only other time that greeks under venice went on the offensive was at lepanto when crete supplied 8 galleys , but then again, lepanto is in greek waters

would you prefer, venice keep greek culture and this event has every grrek lands, corfu, crete, cyprus etc etc to hav -1 reduction in manpower for the province?

 

[Therion]

action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME326010A" #Pressgang
command = { type = manpower value = 2 }
command = { type = stability value = -1 }
command = { type = galleys which = -1 value = 20 }
command = { type = remove_countryculture which = greek }
command = { type = naval value = 750 }
}
action_b = {
name = "ACTIONNAME326010B" #Old system is best
command = { type = treasury value = -50 }
command = { type = population which = 370 value = -2000 } #Veneto
}
}

Only the AI will choose option A.

 

[Toio]

Only the AI will choose option A.

true, we better put it for action B as well

 

[Toio]

Ferrara and modena

trying to follow the changes, but I am confused.
1- why was ferrara flag changed and who does it represent in 1419?
2- when is the modena split and where does the este family go?
3 - does parma ever appear in ferrara lands?


massa under GEN is ok, but cores are needed by neighbours for the land.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

true, we better put it for action B as well

Removing greek culture does not make sense in that event - in neither option.

You wrote about the greek not serving outside their greek provinces - that would be nice. But if we remove greek stateculture from VEN then they will have lower manpower in all their greek provinces for all purposes. Not just for raising armies to fight somewhere else, but even to raise armies to defend their greek provinces, e.g. raising an army in Crete, Cyprus or the Morea to defend Crete, Cyprus or the Morea would be far more difficult for them. We would not see greek soldiers fighting only in their greek home provinces but very few greek soldiers fighting for VEN at all.

Furthermore the removal of the stateculture does not only lower the VEN manpower - it reduces their income from greek provinces and sligtly raises the revoltrisk there for VEN too. So it becomes a problem for VEN to rule greek provinces instead of only slightly reducing their manpower.

In addition your suggestion completely turns the meaning of the event itself. The event was meant to give VEN a slight *boost* in manpower because they started to press crews for their ships when they did not find enough people willing to do galley service. Now the +2 to themanpowerpool mean VEN can muster +2000 men for their army - but loses tens of thousands they never can recruit because of the lack of manpower in their greek provinces.

It would severely weaken the military and economic strength of VEN at a point in time where VEN was not yet so weak to quickly lose it´s greek provinces.

 

[Toio]

Removing greek culture does not make sense in that event - in neither option.

You wrote about the greek not serving outside their greek provinces - that would be nice. But if we remove greek stateculture from VEN then they will have lower manpower in all their greek provinces for all purposes. Not just for raising armies to fight somewhere else, but even to raise armies to defend their greek provinces, e.g. raising an army in Crete, Cyprus or the Morea to defend Crete, Cyprus or the Morea would be far more difficult for them.

Furthermore the removal of the stateculture does not only lower the VEN manpower - it reduces their income from greek provinces and sligtly raises the revoltrisk there for VEN too. So it becomes a problem for VEN to rule greek provinces instead of only slightly reducing their manpower.

In addition your suggestion completely turns the meaning of the event itself. The event was meant to give VEN a slight *boost* in manpower because they started to press crews for their ships when they did not find enough people willing to do galley service. Now the +2 to themanpowerpool mean VEN can muster +2000 men for their army - but loses tens of thousands they never can recruit because of the lack of manpower in their greek provinces.

It would severely weaken the military and economic strength of VEN at a point in time where VEN was not yet so weak to quickly lose it´s greek provinces.

let us first clarify what is culture for manpower to this game - my view -

culture is manpower and revenue only, i can amended the defines files and have 0 RR for wrong culture, I can change also the percent of lost revenue to zero for wrong culture........so we are left with manpower, true I can also have zero loss of manpower for wrong culture. BUT I use culture for manpower.

the historical event was due to the fact that Venice ran out of men , fighting oarsmen ( vikings) , the venetian policy was that no mercenaries fought on the ships for Venice.
So, greeks who have very little manpower to start with could not be used for galley wars as it would make no sense in replacing these defensive troops for other defensive troops. Venice started to use , prisoners of war, convicts who where sentence to death and all other trash. They still could not sustain their military fleet. even in 1571 at lepanto with 110 ships , 16500 fighting oarsmen plus 7000 other troops was not enough.
It took 5 ottoman ships to engage 1 venetian galley to equal the fighting manpower.
http://www.syropoulos.co.uk/ships.htm

I know that crete was taken in 1660s, the ionia islands or corfu was never lost, but these are minor manpower numbers. fact it these island ( apart from crete0 stayed loyal to venice until its demise.

From the event time in question, the dalmatians, istrians, venetians and veneti manned the galleys , maybe the anwer is to prop up dalmatia, istria and mainland venetian holdings.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id...gK#v=onepage&q=venetian galley slaves&f=false

can you explain what culture represents if not manpower

 

[Bordic]

Ferrara and modena

trying to follow the changes, but I am confused.
1- why was ferrara flag changed and who does it represent in 1419?
2- when is the modena split and where does the este family go?
3 - does parma ever appear in ferrara lands?


massa under GEN is ok, but cores are needed by neighbours for the land.

1- I also don't know which flag is the one we have. It is like Siena but inversed. Therion should say. Probably he adopted the city CoA which would be wrong imo as here we talk about Estensi.

2- In 1598 more or less and the family goes to Modena. The fief corresponding to the duchy of Ferrara is definitively ceded to the Papal States. Technically we could have both duchies separated if the ftg mechanism would allow them to act as a union.

3- Parma has only to do with Milan and then with the Pope. It was never an Estensi possession afaik.

For Massa, I can understand Florence and possibly Milan having a claim core, but should Ferrara/Modena have it too? That was in case Massa acted as Massa but only late in game.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

let us first clarify what is culture for manpower to this game - my view -

culture is manpower and revenue only, i can amended the defines files and have 0 RR for wrong culture, I can change also the percent of lost revenue to zero for wrong culture........so we are left with manpower, true I can also have zero loss of manpower for wrong culture. BUT I use culture for manpower.

If you change the defines then those values are valid for every state in the game. Not just for Venice. And it is by purpose that a state that lacks the right state culture should have a perpetually higher revoltrisk from provinces with a foreign culture than a state that has the right province culture.
Or in other words your example would result in the Ming being able to rule italian provinces without higher revoltrisk than han provinces once nationalism is gone...
Castrating a game mechanic for all states in the game to make something work for VEN is no viable way.

the historical event was due to the fact that Venice ran out of men , fighting oarsmen ( vikings) , the venetian policy was that no mercenaries fought on the ships for Venice.

That was the problem. And the *solution* that the event represents was to press men into galley service to make up for the lack of willing oarsmen and to raise the number of oarsmen. Pressing = more men than before for galley service. That was the reason that the event as it is GIVES VEN a small bonus of +2 to the manpowerpool.

To quote from the link you pasted: "Venice managed to increase the efficiency of it´s conscription system, and to hire non-Venetians in sufficient numbers to maintain it´s alla sensile rowing system in almost all of it´s galley fleet until the 1580."

So, greeks who have very little manpower to start with could not be used for galley wars as it would make no sense in replacing these defensive troops for other defensive troops.

Right. But we do not have "defensive troops" in the game. There is no game mechanic to force VEN to use soldiers recruited from greek provinces only in greek provinces. If it were that would be fine for me. But removing greek culture means that VEN has only a very low number of greek manpower at all. Where are those greeks that would defend their own province but not fight in VEN foreign wars? Gone with the removal of greek culture. So instead of using the available greek troops as local defensive troops you eliminate them.

Venice started to use , prisoners of war, convicts who where sentence to death and all other trash. They still could not sustain their military fleet. even in 1571 at lepanto with 110 ships , 16500 fighting oarsmen plus 7000 other troops was not enough.
It took 5 ottoman ships to engage 1 venetian galley to equal the fighting manpower.
http://www.syropoulos.co.uk/ships.htm

Didn´t the christian fleet WIN at Lepanto? Why was it not enough to say that the fleet worked?

I know that crete was taken in 1660s, the ionia islands or corfu was never lost, but these are minor manpower numbers. fact it these island ( apart from crete0 stayed loyal to venice until its demise.

Right. And you want them to pay 30% less taxes and be more rebellious with +1 RR from 1545-1549 onwards with your suggested change. Should those provinces be still orthodox VEN suffers -60% in taxes and probably faces revolts in it´s greek provinces during wars from the combination of wrongculture, wrongreligion provinces.

From the event time in question, the dalmatians, istrians, venetians and veneti manned the galleys , maybe the anwer is to prop up dalmatia, istria and mainland venetian holdings.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id...gK#v=onepage&q=venetian galley slaves&f=false

can you explain what culture represents if not manpower

Toio you misunderstand a game concept here. Manpower is for raising land armies. NOT for manning galleys. Building ships does not use up the large amount of manpower that you want to take away from VEN by removing greek culture.

Historically VEN might have lacked men for their fleet. But removing greek culture means that you create a lack of men for VEN land armies. It has no game effect on their ability to build galleys.

Edit: If you want them to be unalble to build, field and maintain the same number of ships (due to lack of oarsmen) then something should be altered that influences number of ships or the price to maintain them, e.g. changing a province good from one of those that give a bonus to ships to another. Or destroying a shipyard. Later they will lose some abiltiy to maintain ships when they lose the ports of Cyprus and Crete.

 

[Toio]

If you change the defines then those values are valid for every state in the game. Not just for Venice. And it is by purpose that a state that lacks the right state culture should have a perpetually higher revoltrisk from provinces with a foreign culture than a state that has the right province culture.
Or in other words your example would result in the Ming being able to rule italian provinces without higher revoltrisk than han provinces once nationalism is gone...
Castrating a game mechanic for all states in the game to make something work for VEN is no viable way.

+1 for RR for wrong culture is insignificant , when religion offsets this by 4 , stabilty by more. revolts happen either by event or war exhaustion. rebalance this aspect of the game before worrying about a +1 RR for wrong culture.

That was the problem. And the *solution* that the event represents was to press men into galley service to make up for the lack of willing oarsmen and to raise the number of oarsmen. Pressing = more men than before for galley service. That was the reason that the event as it is GIVES VEN a small bonus of +2 to the manpowerpool.

To quote from the link you pasted: "Venice managed to increase the efficiency of it´s conscription system, and to hire non-Venetians in sufficient numbers to maintain it´s alla sensile rowing system in almost all of it´s galley fleet until the 1580."

so what are you saying , remove the +2 manpower in 1580?

BTW - alla sensile is a rowing system where you face forward when rowing and not facing backwards where you are heading.

Right. But we do not have "defensive troops" in the game. There is no game mechanic to force VEN to use soldiers recruited from greek provinces only in greek provinces. If it were that would be fine for me. But removing greek culture means that VEN has only a very low number of greek manpower at all. Where are those greeks that would defend their own province but not fight in VEN foreign wars? Gone with the removal of greek culture. So instead of using the available greek troops as local defensive troops you eliminate them.

but we do have defensive troops in the game, its called forts which are exaggerated to unhistorical proportations and 1 fort covers the full province. these are the defensive troops we have. historical most forts never passed a level 2 from or game historically

Didn´t the christian fleet WIN at Lepanto? Why was it not enough to say that the fleet worked?

yes it won , in greek waters as I stated

Right. And you want them to pay 30% less taxes and be more rebellious with +1 RR from 1545-1549 onwards with your suggested change. Should those provinces be still orthodox VEN suffers -60% in taxes and probably faces revolts in it´s greek provinces during wars from the combination of wrongculture, wrongreligion provinces.

less taxes and +1 RR for wrong culture are changeable, but you have hit the nail on the head for the game - unacceptance of more than 1 religion - while I can understand instability of wrong religion , I cannot understand the revenue loss

Toio you misunderstand a game concept here. Manpower is for raising land armies. NOT for manning galleys. Building ships does not use up the large amount of manpower that you want to take away from VEN by removing greek culture.

Historically VEN might have lacked men for their fleet. But removing greek culture means that you create a lack of men for VEN land armies. It has no game effect on their ability to build galleys.

ok, should we remove the +2 manpower for the event ? it did not go to the army

Edit: If you want them to be unalble to build, field and maintain the same number of ships (due to lack of oarsmen) then something should be altered that influences number of ships or the price to maintain them, e.g. changing a province good from one of those that give a bonus to ships to another. Or destroying a shipyard. Later they will lose some abiltiy to maintain ships when they lose the ports of Cyprus and Crete.

losing ports is part of the game - IIRC it was 8 ships per port, but I think it was either raised or lowered by other versions. I cannot find the information

 

[ConjurerDragon]

+1 for RR for wrong culture is insignificant , when religion offsets this by 4 , stabilty by more. revolts happen either by event or war exhaustion. rebalance this aspect of the game before worrying about a +1 RR for wrong culture.

Religion offsets that only during peace if the province does not have the state religion. The greek provinces are likely to be orthodox while VEN is catholic so the additional +1 for RR - in case that your suggestion would be implemented - could mean revolts for VEN during war. Nothing a player could not handle but a problem that AI VEN should not have to face.

so what are you saying , remove the +2 manpower in 1580?

No. I´m saying that the event would need a slightly different text to start. In 1545 VEN did not suddenly change from a navy of free volunteering oarsmen to a navy of slave galleys, not even to a navy with 15% slave galleys. According to the link you gave in one of your posts they only started to experiment with *2* galleys in 1545 and continued to raise that value over years.

I would keep the +2 manpower to the manpowerpool. This is a small bonus (representing only about 2000 soldiers that can be raised) and it´s a one-time bonus unlike changes to stateculture or provincemanpower. It sounds reasonable to me because if foreigners and criminals are used at the oars then free men don´t have to row and are free to join the army. IMO if the text mentions dalmatians and grisons I could see a trigger for the manpower command, e.g. owning dalmatia and not being at war with Graubünden to get the manpower bonus.

However I question the bonus to naval tech of 750. They slowly change a navy of free armed and fighting wellpaid volunteers at the oars to chained slaves and their navy becomes BETTER because of that? Makes no sense to me.

but we do have defensive troops in the game, its called forts which are exaggerated to unhistorical proportations and 1 fort covers the full province. these are the defensive troops we have. historical most forts never passed a level 2 from or game historically

So are you suggesting to remove greek stateculture from VEN and instead give them fortresses as "defensive greek troops that only defend their own province" in their greek provinces? That raises another can of worms: First if they already have a fortress in the province, especially in mountainous island provinces, raising that fortress another level might create something that the turkish AI won´t be able to siege successfully. Second it still leaves the problem of lower tax income and slightly higher RR in VEN´s greek provinces that are not justified by greek soldiers not venturing away from their home province.

less taxes and +1 RR for wrong culture are changeable, but you have hit the nail on the head for the game - unacceptance of more than 1 religion - while I can understand instability of wrong religion , I cannot understand the revenue loss

The penalties for culture are changeable - but why remove them or lower them to meaningless low values? Having a state culture does and should have some meaning in the game. Lower manpower without the proper culture may be the most important part to you, but a slightly higher Revoltrisk (in addition to the other aspects that can raise RR) and approximatley a third less income are a good way to show that without the proper culture a state simply can´t get the full benefits out of a population it doesn´t understand.

For an example of revenue loss through religion simply look at the situation e. g. in northern Ireland a few years ago. And that´s nothing against what happened in the Thirty Years War even without the actual warfare.

losing ports is part of the game - IIRC it was 8 ships per port, but I think it was either raised or lowered by other versions. I cannot find the information

If you hover the cursor over the supported number of ships in the ship maintenance screen it gives the total numbers of ships supprted by the different aspects of the game.

 

[Toio]

Religion offsets that only during peace if the province does not have the state religion. The greek provinces are likely to be orthodox while VEN is catholic so the additional +1 for RR - in case that your suggestion would be implemented - could mean revolts for VEN during war. Nothing a player could not handle but a problem that AI VEN should not have to face.

this does not make sense, so where does it say religion offsets are not applied in war time

No. I´m saying that the event would need a slightly different text to start. In 1545 VEN did not suddenly change from a navy of free volunteering oarsmen to a navy of slave galleys, not even to a navy with 15% slave galleys. According to the link you gave in one of your posts they only started to experiment with *2* galleys in 1545 and continued to raise that value over years.

I would keep the +2 manpower to the manpowerpool. This is a small bonus (representing only about 2000 soldiers that can be raised) and it´s a one-time bonus unlike changes to stateculture or provincemanpower. It sounds reasonable to me because if foreigners and criminals are used at the oars then free men don´t have to row and are free to join the army. IMO if the text mentions dalmatians and grisons I could see a trigger for the manpower command, e.g. owning dalmatia and not being at war with Graubünden to get the manpower bonus.

However I question the bonus to naval tech of 750. They slowly change a navy of free armed and fighting wellpaid volunteers at the oars to chained slaves and their navy becomes BETTER because of that? Makes no sense to me.

the 750 was to maintain VEN dominance in the sea, especially heading to Lepanto times 1571 and later years 1650-1700

So are you suggesting to remove greek stateculture from VEN and instead give them fortresses as "defensive greek troops that only defend their own province" in their greek provinces? That raises another can of worms: First if they already have a fortress in the province, especially in mountainous island provinces, raising that fortress another level might create something that the turkish AI won´t be able to siege successfully. Second it still leaves the problem of lower tax income and slightly higher RR in VEN´s greek provinces that are not justified by greek soldiers not venturing away from their home province.

No, I am suggesting that the level of fortresses are exaggerated, it should be something like this, 1419 level 1, 1500 level 2, 1700 level 3 etc

The penalties for culture are changeable - but why remove them or lower them to meaningless low values? Having a state culture does and should have some meaning in the game. Lower manpower without the proper culture may be the most important part to you, but a slightly higher Revoltrisk (in addition to the other aspects that can raise RR) and approximatley a third less income are a good way to show that without the proper culture a state simply can´t get the full benefits out of a population it doesn´t understand.

For an example of revenue loss through religion simply look at the situation e. g. in northern Ireland a few years ago. And that´s nothing against what happened in the Thirty Years War even without the actual warfare.

well, +1 RR makes no sense its too small
30% less revuenue can be improved as its wrong - maybe 50%
30% less manpower seems like it needs a change - again maybe 50%
loss of revenue due to wrong religion makes no sense- only instability would make sense
no land connection and loss of revenue is another stupid system

If you hover the cursor over the supported number of ships in the ship maintenance screen it gives the total numbers of ships supprted by the different aspects of the game.

I know that, I am talking about the change of value that a port brings


BTW , can you have 2 ( or more )ports per province?

 

[ConjurerDragon]

In the current setup Venice starts with claimcores on Udine/Friaul (province ID 1920) and Aquileia (1423).

However VEN has events to gain cores on those provinces and the addcore commands in those events don´t make sense if VEN already has cores from the start of the game.

I suggest to remove the claim-cores from the VEN starting setup in 1419_VEN_Venice.inc
and instead add 1920 only as as casusbellicore:

claimedprovinces = {
		365 479 480 820 1402 [color=red]1920 1423[/color]
	}
[color=yellow]casusbelliprovinces = {
		1920 
	}[/color]

With that Venice has a reason to go to war again for that province even if the AI would end the first war for a few ducats but they would only get more when they actually occupy Friaul/Udine.

The new beta of FtG has the "emperor" as a usable value for the emperor in events so we could use that instead of HUN or later HAB.

#(1419-1420) Venetian Expansion in Aquileia
#by Therion
event = {
	id = 326085
	trigger = {
		control = { province = 1920 data = -1 }
	}
	random = no
	country = VEN
	name = "EVENTNAME326085" #Venetian Expansion in Aquileia
	desc = "EVENTHIST326085"
	#-#Since the transfer of the patriarchal residence to Udine, the Venetians had never lived in peace with the Patriarchate, of whose Imperial favour and tendencies they were jealous. From about 1400, La Serenissima under Doge Michele Steno and his successor Tommaso Mocenigo began to enlarge its dogado by occupying the Aquileia hinterlands. At the same time, the Patriarchate suffered a series of inner strifes between the citizens of Cividale and Udine. In 1411 this turned into a war which was to mark the end of the Patriarchate, Cividale having received support from most of the Friulian communes, the Carraresi of Padua, Emperor Sigismund of Germany, also King of Hungary, while Udine was backed by the Venetians. In the December of that year an Imperial army captured Udine and, in the following January, Louis of Teck was implemented as patriarch in the city's cathedral. On July 23, 1419 the Venetians conquered Cividale and prepared to do the same with Udine. The city fell on June 7, 1420 after a longe siege. Soon afterwards Gemona, San Daniele, Venzone and Tolmezzo followed.

	date = { day = 0 month = february year = 1419 }
	offset = 10
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1421 }	
	
	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME326085A" #We're here to stay
		command = { type = addcore_claim which = 1920 } #Friuli
		command = { type = relation which = [color=red]HUN[/color][color=yellow]emperor[/color] value = -50 } [color=red]#relation hit with Emperor[/color]
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME326085B" #Best not awaken the ire of Sigismund
		command = { type = cedeprovince which = AQU value = 1920 } #in case VEN owns it already
		command = { type = relation which = [color=red]HUN[/color][color=yellow]emperor[/color] value = 50 }
		command = { type = relation which = AQU value = 50 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 326086 } #Absorption of the Patriarchate
	}

In the next event VEN currently gains nationalcores on both Friaul and Aquilea. As VEN already has a claimcore from the first event I suggest to simply have them wait the 30years until they get the nationalcore automatically. If they had missed the first event then a claimcore should still be added for Friaul as a safetyprecaution to make sure they get it.

The core on Aquileia should not be a national but only a claimcore. VEN never controlled the whole area of that province because the County of Görz was there too:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Patriarchat_Aquileia.jpg


The county of Görz was inherited in 1500 by Austria after the last count of Görz died without heir. And at the time of that inheritance Aquileia was part of Görz and went into the ownership of Austria:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Oostr1477.png

#(1445) Absorption of the Patriarchate
#by Therion
event = {
	id = 326086
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 1920 data = -1 } #Friuli
	}
	random = no
	country = VEN
	name = "EVENTNAME326086" #Absorption of the Patriarchate
	desc = "EVENTHIST326086"
	#-#In 1445, after Patriarch Ludovico Trevisan at the Council of Florence had acquiesced in the loss of his ancient temporal estate in return for an annual salary of 5,000 ducats allowed him from the Venetian treasury. Henceforth only Venetians were allowed to hold the title of Patriarch of Aquileia. The former Friulian state was incorporated in the Venetian Republic with the name of Patria del Friuli, ruled by a General Proveditor or a Luogotenente living in Udine. In 1523 Emperor Charles V ultimately renounced any Imperial rights to the former Aquileia territory.

	date = { day = 0 month = january year = 1445 }
	offset = 10
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1445 }	
	
	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME326086A" #The Patriarchate is fully ours
		command = { type = inherit which = AQU } #Aquileia
		command = { type = treasury value = -100 }
	        command = { type = addcore_[color=red]national[/color][color=yellow]claim[/color] which = 1920 } #Friuli
		command = { type = addcore_[color=red]national[/color][color=yellow]claim[/color] which = 1423 } #Aquileia
		command = { type = cityname which = 1423 value = "Aquileja" } #Venetian rendering of Acuilee
		command = { type = cityname which = 1920 value = "Ùdine" } #Venetian rendering of Udin
		command = { type = relation which = [color=red]HUN[/color][color=yellow]emperor[/color] value = -50 } #relation hit with Emperor
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME326086B" #This is not a good idea
		command = { type = cedeprovince which = AQU value = 1920 } 
		[color=red]#command = { type = removecore_national which = 1920 } #Friuli[/color]
		command = { type = relation which = [color=red]HUN[/color][color=yellow]emperor[/color] value = 50 } #Emperor is pleased
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 326087 } #Imperial Renunciation of Aquileia
	}
}

A problem in the a choice is the name change of the province. That only works if VEN owns both provinces when the event fires. It does not work if VEN inherits 1423 in that event and tries to change the name in the same event. So if that namechange should work for sure it needs it´s own event with a check that VEN owns 1423.


The last event in the sequence does not make sense. It checks that VEN exists and that Spain does not own Friaul and Aquilea. That would be true in most games even if VEN never conquered both provinces and Spain would not be the emperor...
I suggest that the event should check that VEN is not at war with SPA too and that VEN actually owns the provinces. If any state of the HRE owns them they should not leave the HRE.

#(1523) Imperial Renunciation of Aquileia [color=yellow]Friaul[/color]
#by Therion
event = {
	id = 326087
	trigger = {
		exists = VEN
		[color=red]OR = {
			NOT = {	control = { province = 1423 data = -1 } } #Aquileia[/color]
			NOT = { control = { province = 1920 data = -1 } } #Friuli
		}
                 [color=yellow]emperor = yes[/color]
	}
	random = no
	country = SPA
	name = "EVENTNAME326087" #Imperial Renunciation of Aquileia
	desc = "EVENTHIST326087"
	#-#The death of Doge Antonio Grimani brought Andrea Gritti, a veteran of the War of the League of Cambrai, to power in Venice at the height of the Franco-Spanish War. He quickly began negotiations with the Emperor and on 29 July 1523 concluded the Treaty of Worms, which removed the Republic from the war. Emperor Charles V, in turn, renounced Imperial claims to the former territory of Aquileia.

	date = { day = 0 month = january year = 1523 }
	offset = 10
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1523 }	
	
	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME326087A" #Give and take
		[color=red]command = { type = hre which = 1423 value = no } #Aquileia[/color]
		command = { type = hre which = 1920 value = no } #Friuli
		command = { type = relation which = VEN value = 100 }
		command = { type = INF which = 395 value = 10000 } #Troops from the Venetian front can be mobilised elsewhere
		command = { type = galleys which = 395 value = 10 }
	}
}

 

[ConjurerDragon]

In AGCEEP Genoa owns Kerch but has no core there. In Plus Vltra Genoa starts with a core on it´s black sea province that currently is never removed.

I suggest to remove that core when the province is ceded:

#(1475-1820) Genoa loses its colonies in the Black Sea
event = {
	id = 174022
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 464 data = -1 } #Kaffa
		owned = { province = 1953 data = TUR } #Byzantion
		NOT = { cot = 464 }
		NOT = {
			owned = { province = 463 data = -1 } #Crimea
			owned = { province = 465 data = -1 } #Kuban
		}
	}
	random = no
	country = GEN
	name = "EVENTNAME174022" #Genoa loses its colonies in the Black Sea
	desc = "EVENTHIST174022"
	#-#After the fall of Constantinople to the Ottomans, it became increasingly difficult for Genoa to maintain its possessions in the Black Sea. The Bank of San Giorgio in Genoa was administrating the holdings since 1453, the most important strongholds were the two fortresses Chembalo and Sudak, and the city Kaffa. In 1475 a large Turkish fleet under Grand Vizier Keduk Akhmet Pasha arrived to conduct a naval landing and started to besiege Kaffa with Tatar aid. After five days Kaffa surrendered and 500 Genoese families were sent to Constantinople, many leaders manage to flee to Mangup, including the governor Antonietto da Cabella and the general Francisco Guasconcini.

	date = { day = 5 month = january year = 1475 }
	offset = 100
	deathdate = { year = 1820 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME174022A" #We cannot keep these outposts
		command = { type = cedeprovince which = TUR value = 464 } #Kaffa
		[color=yellow]command = { type = removecore_national which = 464 } #Kaffa[/color]
		command = { type = casusbelli which = TUR value = 60 }
		command = { type = badboy value = -1 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 301009 } #TUR: Conquest of Genoese strongholds
	}
}

 

[Toio]

Should Milan cede Brescia to Veinice after 1430 . Historically the provnce was venetian from ~1431 to 1797 . It the passage that supplied Venetian mercenaries. from Brunswick, Saxony, Lorraine and the Grisons


Should Venice loose Greek culture after negroponte is lost............I think yes, greeks rarely supplied many troops after this , the bulk of Venetian colonial troops where the Dalmatians and albanians until 1494 battle of Fornova. After this battle the Venetian lost faith with the albanians, an so the bulk of albanians hired their services to Naples.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

Should Milan cede Brescia to Veinice after 1430 . Historically the provnce was venetian from ~1431 to 1797 . It the passage that supplied Venetian mercenaries. from Brunswick, Saxony, Lorraine and the Grisons

Milan loses it´s core on Brescia with event MLO 228052 A.
The most simple way would be to add
command = { type = cedeprovince which = VEN value = 1919 } #Brescia
to option A in that event.

Should Venice loose Greek culture after negroponte is lost............I think yes, greeks rarely supplied many troops after this , the bulk of Venetian colonial troops where the Dalmatians and albanians until 1494 battle of Fornova. After this battle the Venetian lost faith with the albanians, an so the bulk of albanians hired their services to Naples.

Negroponte is nothing compared to the other greek possessions, e.g. Cyprus or Crete.
There are already events for Venice to lose albanian and greek culture that suffice.
In my opinion Venice definitely should keep greek as an accepted culture until after the siege of Candia and the loss of Crete
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Candia

 

[Toio]

In the natives of Zeta event for VEN
Venice should get a claim on the province for the entire game to represent its historical holdings until 1797

.......................................

In 1482 , VEN should ahve a province claim on trento lands to establish their historic ownership of southern Trento until 1797.

......................................

Urbino should be released by PAP on ownership of these lands by PAP and then Urbino should be an ally and vassal of PAP

.........................................

MLO should relinguish massa on any war with GEN ............if owned

GEN should relinguish massa on any war with florence...........if owned

 

[Toio]

Milan loses it´s core on Brescia with event MLO 228052 A.
The most simple way would be to add
command = { type = cedeprovince which = VEN value = 1919 } #Brescia
to option A in that event.



Negroponte is nothing compared to the other greek possessions, e.g. Cyprus or Crete.
There are already events for Venice to lose albanian and greek culture that suffice.
In my opinion Venice definitely should keep greek as an accepted culture until after the siege of Candia and the loss of Crete
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Candia

I know candia was the only place outside of italy and Istria that Venetian merchants could settle their families .......an indication of its importance.

but negroponte (euboea) was the island that venice lost in 1473 which turned the future VEN-TUR wars against VEN. If that was not lost then TUR dominance of greece would never have been achieved

 

[ConjurerDragon]

I know candia was the only place outside of italy and Istria that Venetian merchants could settle their families .......an indication of its importance.

but negroponte (euboea) was the island that venice lost in 1473 which turned the future VEN-TUR wars against VEN. If that was not lost then TUR dominance of greece would never have been achieved

Negroponte is just an island very close to the coast. The ottoman army at that time could defeat any venetian army on land and could conquer the island because they built a dam across the narrow former valley (the Euripus) that splits the island from the mainland.
At that time the Ottomans already had achieved turkish dominance of mainland greece.

However to be able to stand up to the ottomans in FtG for another 200 years Venice needs to keep greek culture beyond 1473 because if they lack the manpower and income and have to suffer more revoltrisk then they will lose quicker than historically.

And if VEN has no greek culture but TUR has it then that might result in rebelcontrolled greek provinces to defect to TUR far before it´s wanted.