Sonderweg oder Anderweg? -- An interactive AAR in the Hohenzollerns megacampaign

[PTSnoop]

I must object to this absurd scapegoating of Herr Brunelli.

Those to blame for the Liberation War and the deaths of our people can easily be found in Paris, and London, and Warsaw ((or whatever the capitals actually are in this game)). Blaming the government of the Republic is unreasonable, but laying blame at the feet of the Minister For Education, of all people, shows either cowardice of character or a derranged mind.

From the words being flung around the Reichstag this morning, one would suppose that we had been defeated by the Polish, conquered by the French, and that the roadsigns to Elsaß-Lothringen were already being changed back to Alsace-Lorraine. We have won the war, gentlemen! Germany stands alone against three of the Great Powers and stands triumphant. The Tverian is liberated, the Frank is subdued, and the Pole is left skulking back to his hole. And the glorious dead are heroes to be remembered, not pawns to be exploited for politicians' gain.

And while I have already voiced my own concerns about Herr Brunelli's education policy, unceremoniously flinging him from office just before a major election would be cruel and unusual. When the next government forms, we'll almost certainly have a different Minister For Education anyway.

Let us rather move forward from this victory, and stride forth into a new age of Peace, Progress, and Industry.

 

[Michaelangelo]

I do not personally blame Herr Brunelli for for any losses during the war. I understand that he was merely trying to create a better Germany and he let his pacifist views cloud his judgment of how military technology directly affects German lives. It did become clear afterwards though that Germany is not as advanced militarily as we thought and innovation in the military field has stagnated over the years. One example I can think of is our naval defeat to the Polish. Their flimsy wooden navy bested our steam one because we did not have any larger vessels to combat theirs. If we do not keep up and surpass them, our losses will be even greater in the future. Soon we will be like pathetic barbarians throwing spears at men with muskets. If Herr Brunelli will not rectify our disadvantage, then he must be replaced. If we do not act quickly enough, we may soon face the day where the British, French, and Poles march on the walls of Nürnberg itself.

 

[Andre Massena]

I do not personally blame Herr Brunelli for for any losses during the war. I understand that he was merely trying to create a better Germany and he let his pacifist views cloud his judgment of how military technology directly affects German lives. It did become clear afterwards though that Germany is not as advanced militarily as we thought and innovation in the military field has stagnated over the years. One example I can think of is our naval defeat to the Polish. Their flimsy wooden navy bested our steam one because we did not have any larger vessels to combat theirs. If we do not keep up and surpass them, our losses will be even greater in the future. Soon we will be like pathetic barbarians throwing spears at men with muskets. If Herr Brunelli will not rectify our disadvantage, then he must be replaced. If we do not act quickly enough, we may soon face the day where the British, French, and Poles march on the walls of Nürnberg itself.

If we needed more big ships, then why didn't we build more man o'wars?

-a random backbencher

 

[PTSnoop]

I do not personally blame Herr Brunelli for for any losses during the war. I understand that he was merely trying to create a better Germany and he let his pacifist views cloud his judgment of how military technology directly affects German lives. It did become clear afterwards though that Germany is not as advanced militarily as we thought and innovation in the military field has stagnated over the years. One example I can think of is our naval defeat to the Polish. Their flimsy wooden navy bested our steam one because we did not have any larger vessels to combat theirs. If we do not keep up and surpass them, our losses will be even greater in the future. Soon we will be like pathetic barbarians throwing spears at men with muskets. If Herr Brunelli will not rectify our disadvantage, then he must be replaced. If we do not act quickly enough, we may soon face the day where the British, French, and Poles march on the walls of Nürnberg itself.

Strange, I'd say the Battle of the Southern Baltic Sea demonstrated the exact opposite of what Herr Von Vandenburg is saying.

"Their flimsy wooden navy bested our steam one because we did not have any larger vessels to combat theirs," he says. So far so accurate. But the conclusion he draws from this is that "Germany is not as advanced militarily as we thought" and that "soon we will be like pathetic barbarians throwing spears at men with muskets".

The logic of this conclusion escapes me. We have seen that a modern technologically-advanced fleet can still be beaten by outdated wooden sailing-ships. Surely the conclusion to be drawn here is that war depends upon discipline, logistics and military planning far more than it does upon flashy new technology?

In fact, if I were in such a mood, I could even argue that the Battle of the Southern Baltic Sea showed that we should abandon our research in the flawed ironclad and steamer, and instead put our trust in the trustworthy old-fashioned wooden sailing ships of our grandfathers. Such arguments would be luddite and reactionary, and would be a gross oversimplification of the requirements of a modern military - but at least they'd follow consistently from the military results. But saying "technology lost, therefore all hail technology" doesn't even have that to recommend itself.

I dislike entirely-pacifist research policies, but I dislike faulty logic even more. Perhaps some of our politicians would benefit from the more philosophical education that the state has been promoting?

 

[Andre Massena]

Strange, I'd say the Battle of the Southern Baltic Sea demonstrated the exact opposite of what Herr Von Vandenburg is saying.

"Their flimsy wooden navy bested our steam one because we did not have any larger vessels to combat theirs," he says. So far so accurate. But the conclusion he draws from this is that "Germany is not as advanced militarily as we thought" and that "soon we will be like pathetic barbarians throwing spears at men with muskets".

The logic of this conclusion escapes me. We have seen that a modern technologically-advanced fleet can still be beaten by outdated wooden sailing-ships. Surely the conclusion to be drawn here is that war depends upon discipline, logistics and military planning far more than it does upon flashy new technology?

In fact, if I were in such a mood, I could even argue that the Battle of the Southern Baltic Sea showed that we should abandon our research in the flawed ironclad and steamer, and instead put our trust in the trustworthy old-fashioned wooden sailing ships of our grandfathers. Such arguments would be luddite and reactionary, and would be a gross oversimplification of the requirements of a modern military - but at least they'd follow consistently from the military results. But saying "technology lost, therefore all hail technology" doesn't even have that to recommend itself.

I dislike entirely-pacifist research policies, but I dislike faulty logic even more. Perhaps some of our politicians would benefit from the more philosophical education that the state has been promoting?

Hear hear, Herr Adimari!

Perhaps one can argue that it the experience gained from state-sponsored psychological programs allowed our regiments to prevail!

I would like to announce an expansion of government sponsored philosophy programs. The next educational program the government sponsor will be Empirical programs that will help develop our research in other areas ((so next tech should be Empiricism if we didn't complete that already)).

 

[Dadarian]

Perhaps some of our politicians would benefit from the more philosophical education that the state has been promoting?

I thoroughly agree with Herr Mischling, more of our politicians need to be educated within the state.


((Avindian, what are the primary and secondary peoples in the Republic?))

 

[Andre Massena]

I advise all DDA members to attend the next party meeting

((Check the Alliance group thread!))

 

[Brothersid]

With a close to the war I announce that taxes will return to pre-war levels. In addtion funding to infrastructure will be returned to normal and funding for the army and navy will be returned to 50% of wartime leveles. Lastly, the Tariff will be repealed and I urge the President of the State Planning Board to use the leftover revenues from the war taxes to ensure we don't have the bottom of our economy fall out from under us due to the sudden removal of subsides to critical factories. Lastly, Herr Bruneli while I myself hope to see my fellow philosophers funded in the near future I believe many could agree that the need to minimize casualties taken during war out is greater than the need to discover new methods of thinking.

 

[Avindian]

((As a reminder -- Brunelli is responsible to the Conclave, and thus a vote of no confidence only applies to the Conclave members. I am assuming there will be no further legislation so other ministers may present plans as well... except Brunelli.

Dadarian, do you mean culturally?))

I back Herr von Altmark's to vote no-confidence in Herr Brunelli. Throwing around hateful jargon does not dismiss his culpability for letting our military technology lag so far behind. My very good friend Herr Krupp has been begging us to give him financial support for years now, and if we begin to update our fleet, perhaps we can finally do exactly that, and maybe even construct the canal some engineers have confided to me as possible.

I call upon the Conclave to remove Brunelli before he can do any further damage.

Michael von Hohenzollern, Minister of the Interior

((Brothersid, I don't see a clear vote one way or the other. That means we have Dadarian and I voting in favor, for the moment, and those are the only votes that count. 48 hours to vote, gentlemen.))

 

[EtzelHoveri]

((I'm pretty sure I called for the vote of no confidence.))

 

[Avindian]

((I'm pretty sure I called for the vote of no confidence.))

((You're a member of the Assembly and so your call doesn't count. ))

 

[Dadarian]

((Avindian, yes. Also your name is now autocorrecting on my phone))

 

[TheChalk]

I must back the vote of no confidence. An armed Germany is a strong Germany.

 

[Mikkel Glahder]

Is this vote of no-confidence really appyable to one person. As far as I know, it should be to the goverment. However our channelor can dismiss him I suppose.

~Konrad von Schwaben

 

[DensleyBlair]

Is this vote of no-confidence really appyable to one person. As far as I know, it should be to the goverment. However our channelor can dismiss him I suppose.

~Konrad von Schwaben

The vote is certainly applicable to one person. That is why the conclave is currently voting.

~A. Backbencher

 

[PTSnoop]

Any party may call for a vote of no-confidence in any given minister (including the Chancellor – this will automatically trigger early elections) once per cycle. If the vote succeeds (simple majority of that house), the party which called for the vote may appoint the replacement (with the agreement of the Chancellor).

((Seems constitutionally fine to me.))

 

[TJDS]

I support Herr Brunelli! We should not blame him for not focussing on warfare, for that will only lead Germany to the path of destruction!

Franz von Bavel-Timmermans

 

[Mikkel Glahder]

The vote is certainly applicable to one person. That is why the conclave is currently voting.

~A. Backbencher

Then I Support removing Herr Bruneli from office.

~Von Schwaben

 

[Sakura_F]

Is this vote of no-confidence really appyable to one person. As far as I know, it should be to the goverment. However our channelor can dismiss him I suppose.

~Konrad von Schwaben

I would prefer not to dismiss a man by whim, I believe that if the majority of the Conclave deem him incapable, he shall be removed from office. Any further questions may be given to my secretary, as I am currently studying Karl der Große, and his rivalry with his brother Karloman. ((AKA I'm playing CK2 Charlemagne )

 

[Mikkel Glahder]

I would prefer not to dismiss a man by whim, I believe that if the majority of the Conclave deem him incapable, he shall be removed from office. Any further questions may be given to my secretary, as I am currently studying Karl der Große, and his rivalry with his brother Karloman. ((AKA I'm playing CK2 Charlemagne )

((Charlemanges empire must be restored.))