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Hi,

To whom it may concern Italy is missing some tech pics and some tech teams:

Missed teams

Aeronautics
Fabbrica Aeroplani Ing. O. Pomilio http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomilio http://www.gavs-torino.it/Ottorino-Pomww.jpg

Fiat Aviazione http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Società_Italiana_Aviazione

Macchi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macchi_M.5

Ansaldo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansaldo_A.1_Balilla

SIA (Società Italiana di Aviazione) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIA_7

Chiribiri & C. http://www.gavs-torino.it/150px-Logo_chiribiri.jpg, http://www.gavs-torino.it/AntonioChiribiriw.jpg

Air doctrine
General Giulio Douhet (Caserta, 30 may 1869 – Roma, 15 february 1930) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giulio_Douhet

General Ottavio Ricaldoni (Buenos Aires 23 jan 1877 Savona 28 march 1965) http://www.aeronautica.difesa.it/storia/images/Ricaldoni.jpg

Navy
Gio. Ansando's pics http://www.corsi.storiaindustria.it/repository/odero/stabilimenti odero.pdf, http://www.tract.it/cornel.jpg http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sestri_Ponente_-_Launch_of_Giulio_Cesare.jpg, http://www.corsi.storiaindustria.it/repository/ansaldo/Manifesto 1920.pdf

Arsenale Militare Marittimo di Taranto http://images.google.it/imgres?imgu...refox-a&rls=org.mozilla:it:official&sa=G&um=1

Cantieri Navali Tosi di Taranto http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/2341/sommergibilesconosciutoky7.jpg

Missed pics
Field Marshall Alberto Pollio (Caserta, 21 april 1852 – Roma, 1 july 1914 - dead by "accident" and replaced by Cadorna) http://www.lagrandeguerra.net/Images/pollio01.jpg
 
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schmoemi said:
I was really surprised when I found that ASDIC destroyer research is in twice: In the naval techtree and also in the secret weapons tree... :confused:
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It should be amended I guess. The first prototype it was ready in mid 1917
 
schmoemi said:
Hm. So should it be a secret weapon or should it be placed in the regular Naval techtree.. :confused:
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Secret weapon. The Admiralty kept secret even the meaning of the acronym: "In 1939, in response to a question from the Oxford English Dictionary, the Admiralty made up the story that it stood for 'Allied Submarine Detection Investigation Committee', and this is still widely believed, though no committee bearing this name has been found in the Admiralty archives"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonar
 
schmoemi said:
OK, I'll fix that.

And another erratum: The techtree (gfx) states that the monitor(ship) depends on the research of the Improved Pre-Dreadnought, but in the code it seems to depend on the Dreadnought.
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Are you going to fix it as well? :)
 
Cardus said:
Please make your proposals and let's see
Click to expand...
- e.g. it ist not clear from the techtree that the heavy cruisers orginate from the improved light cruiser and not from the armoured cruiser.

- the tech is called "Improved armoured cruiser" but the unit model "Early Heavy Cruiser"
 
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schmoemi said:
- e.g. it ist not clear from the techtree that the heavy cruisers orginate from the improved light cruiser and not from the armoured cruiser.
Click to expand...

You are right the heavy cruisers derives from the improved light cruiser.

schmoemi said:
- the tech is called "Improved armoured cruiser" but the unit model "Early Heavy Cruiser"
Click to expand...

The armoured cruiser derives from the protected cruiser. Heavy cruisers and armoured cruisers are two different streams.
 
Cardus said:
The armoured cruiser derives from the protected cruiser. Heavy cruisers and armoured cruisers are two different streams.
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But not ingame. But what I really meant is that in the corresponding tech it says "Improved Armoured Cruiser" whereas the new unit acivated by that tech is then called "Early Heavy Cruiser". Shouldn't that be an "Improved Armoured Cruiser" as well?
If not, to be consistent, the corresponding tech should be also called "Early Heavy Cruiser" then.
 
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schmoemi said:
But not ingame. But what I really meant is that in the corresponding tech it says "Improved Armoured Cruiser" whereas the new unit acivated by that tech is then called "Early Heavy Cruiser". Shouldn't that be an "Improved Armoured Cruiser" as well?
If not, to be consistent, the corresponding tech should be also called "Early Heavy Cruiser" then.
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm saying that you are right
 
I don't know how the 1914 mod ended up doing it, but in the TGW mod the thinking was like this:

In the 1890s, you had Protected Cruisers (light, fast, used for commerce protection) and Armoured Cruisers (bigger, slower, heavily armoured, accompanied the main battlefleet). In terms of models, that's obviously Light Cruiser and Heavy Cruiser, respectively.

The Protected Cruiser evolved into the Light Cruiser.

The Armoured Cruiser was basically abandoned. People stopped making them, because they thought that Battlecruisers were a better idea.

Wartime experience proved that this was wrong: Battlecruisers turned out to be something of a dead end. But they still needed a ship larger than a Light Cruiser, and fast enough to hunt them down and destroy them. Therefore, they (re-)invented the Heavy Cruiser.

However, the Heavy Cruiser was developed from the Light Cruiser. The same basic layout, but larger and with more and bigger guns. They didn't go back and revive the 15-year old obsolete Armoured Cruiser designs and update them.

In the mod, we threw in a conjectural design to fill in the gap between the 1905-vintage Armoured Cruiser and the 1918-vintage Heavy Cruiser, in case players wanted to build this type of ship instead of concentrating on Battlecruisers. But because such ships never existed in real life, it's a judgement call how you describe them and which tech family you base them off.
 
StephenT said:
I don't know how the 1914 mod ended up doing it, but in the TGW mod the thinking was like this:

In the 1890s, you had Protected Cruisers (light, fast, used for commerce protection) and Armoured Cruisers (bigger, slower, heavily armoured, accompanied the main battlefleet). In terms of models, that's obviously Light Cruiser and Heavy Cruiser, respectively.

The Protected Cruiser evolved into the Light Cruiser.

The Armoured Cruiser was basically abandoned. People stopped making them, because they thought that Battlecruisers were a better idea.

Wartime experience proved that this was wrong: Battlecruisers turned out to be something of a dead end. But they still needed a ship larger than a Light Cruiser, and fast enough to hunt them down and destroy them. Therefore, they (re-)invented the Heavy Cruiser.

However, the Heavy Cruiser was developed from the Light Cruiser. The same basic layout, but larger and with more and bigger guns. They didn't go back and revive the 15-year old obsolete Armoured Cruiser designs and update them.

In the mod, we threw in a conjectural design to fill in the gap between the 1905-vintage Armoured Cruiser and the 1918-vintage Heavy Cruiser, in case players wanted to build this type of ship instead of concentrating on Battlecruisers. But because such ships never existed in real life, it's a judgement call how you describe them and which tech family you base them off.
Click to expand...

I made a research and please find the outcome:
*1880 (about) Protected cruisers (protected cruiser is considered the forerunner of the light cruiser and heavy cruiser types).
* 1873 (about) Armored cruisers (The battlecruiser was a dramatic evolution of the armoured cruiser and 'second-class battleship' designs of the 1890s, principally due to the British Admiral Jackie Fisher)

So the tech should be
- Protected cruisers -> light cruiser -> heavy cruiser
- Armored cruisers -> battlecruiser (death end)
 
Cardus said:
So the tech should be
- Protected cruisers -> light cruiser -> heavy cruiser
- Armored cruisers -> battlecruiser (death end)
Click to expand...
I agree with the first, certainly.

With the second, I think it needs qualification. Battlecruisers were designed to do the same job as armoured cruisers, yes. But as far as the technology goes, they weren't developed in a straight line. The battlecruiser was developed out of the dreadnought battleship, not the armoured cruiser: it was a dreadnought with much bigger engines and less armour.

So technologically, you should need to research dreadnoughts before you can research battlecruisers. However, if you want to also have a link to armoured cruisers, so you have to research them as well before you do BCs, that's fine too.
 
StephenT said:
With the second, I think it needs qualification. Battlecruisers were designed to do the same job as armoured cruisers, yes. But as far as the technology goes, they weren't developed in a straight line. The battlecruiser was developed out of the dreadnought battleship, not the armoured cruiser: it was a dreadnought with much bigger engines and less armour.

So technologically, you should need to research dreadnoughts before you can research battlecruisers. However, if you want to also have a link to armoured cruisers, so you have to research them as well before you do BCs, that's fine too.
Click to expand...

From what I read for the battlecruisers are the successors of armoured cruisers but you need the technology of the dreadnoughts.
 
StephenT said:
I agree with the first, certainly.

With the second, I think it needs qualification. Battlecruisers were designed to do the same job as armoured cruisers, yes. But as far as the technology goes, they weren't developed in a straight line. The battlecruiser was developed out of the dreadnought battleship, not the armoured cruiser: it was a dreadnought with much bigger engines and less armour.
Click to expand...
The battlecruiser is something like Dreadnought size & guns but cruiser armor & speed.
The idea was to have a ship that outguns every smaller vessel and was too fast for any larger vessel (which would probably have outgunned the BC). At least from the British side of view. Because of their "speed is the best protection" doctrine. The Germans, on the other hand, sacrificed firepower for better protection, so that the battlecruiser was more durable in fights with foes from its own kind.
StephenT said:
So technologically, you should need to research dreadnoughts before you can research battlecruisers. However, if you want to also have a link to armoured cruisers, so you have to research them as well before you do BCs, that's fine too.
Click to expand...
For the first part, so it is ingame. Of course the parentage from the armoured cruiser could also be added (by me) :)
 
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techtree

This is the "overhauled" naval techtree so far:
1914_1.jpg
 
I'm not familiar with German but I can understand something. I think that you are doing a very good job.

Could you please confirm the following:

Tech Evolution

- Protected Cruisers -> Light cruiser -> Heavy Cruiser
- Armored Cruisers -> Battlecruiser (death end, Battlecruiser requires Dreadnought)
 
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