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CK3 Dev Diary #34 - It’s all about appearances

Hello, I’m Nils and I’m the lead character artist on Crusader Kings III. We’ve already touched briefly on a lot of the features of the portrait system but in this Dev Diary I’m going to dive deeper into the intricacies of the system. It might get a bit technical at points - so bear with me. I personally think all this stuff is very cool but I'm also a gigantic nerd when it comes to these things.

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There’s going to be a lot of text in this Dev Diary, but really, when it comes down to it, it’s mostly there as an excuse to show off the art!

Characters are generated dynamically in the game using a DNA system that defines their looks - everything from mouth shape to body height is stored in this DNA. A DNA is made up of a number of genes. Each gene defines a certain feature. Crusader Kings II already does something similar, but in CKIII we have more than 10 times the amount of genes for every character and a lot of added complexity. The system itself is very flexible and it was up to me how to set it up to get as much visual variation out of it as possible.

Our predecessor, CK2, by necessity builds up characters from a limited number of facial features. There are x amount of noses combined with x amount of mouths and x amount of eyes and so on to make up a face. While this works well and gives a good amount of variation it still has some inherent limitations. What we’ve done in CKIII is to have a much more granular approach where we use many parameters to control each feature. So, for example, instead of just picking a nose (you shouldn’t pick your nose kids) out of a selection of pre-defined noses we store values for nose protrusion, nose height, nose length, nose nostril height, nose nostril width, nose ridge profile, nose ridge angle, nose ridge width, nose size, nose tip angle, nose tip protrusion, nose tip width, nose ridge definition and nose tip definition. In other words; if you’re into noses, or any other facial feature, this is the game for you.

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Some of the many faces (and noses!) of Crusader Kings III
As you can imagine, this gives us quite detailed control over the facial features of characters. And they can vary greatly depending on many factors, which I will try to cover here. Let’s start with ethnicity.

Like we’ve shown in other Dev Diaries already, the CKIII map covers a vast area of the world from Ireland in the west to modern day Mongolia in the east and from Arctic Norway in the north to Sub-Saharan Africa in the south. This big area is populated by groups of different ethnicities which we represent in the game. Due to the way that the character generating system is set up, we can use the same base assets for all different ethnicities and just script in different average values for the facial feature parameters. As an example, west african characters have, on average, darker skin, fuller lips and differently shaped noses than their european or asian counterparts, but they still use the exact same base model. This is good news for inheritance, which is the next subject I will discuss.

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A selection of characters of different ethnicities
Due to the fact that all characters use the same base model, we can easily create blends between multiple DNAs. Each character stores two sets of genes that we call dominant and recessive, respectively. (Disclaimer: Please note that the dominant and recessive genes in our system do not work exactly like in real life. We’re still dealing with an approximation of genetics. We haven’t fully replicated real world genetics. Yet.) When a baby is born it will inherit two versions of each gene - both of which will come randomly from either parent. As mentioned one of these genes will end up being dominant and the other one recessive based on a chance value (dominant genes from the parents have a higher chance of being inherited as dominant genes for the baby). The appearance of the newborn character is decided entirely by its dominant gene set. But the recessive genes are still there as a representation of genes carried down the generations. So when this new character gets to make its own babies they will have a chance of inheriting a gene from their grandparents, even though that gene might not have been visible on their parent.

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Inheritance in action. Top row parents and bottom row their children. If you look closely you should be able to spot the inherited features.
I hope you guys are still awake for the continuation of this Dev Diary. What does all this genetics mumbo-jumbo mean for you as a player? It means that inheritance has a much bigger impact on the appearance of a character in CKIII than than it does in CK2. Characters of different ethnicities that get down for the hanky panky will make babies that look like a blend between both parents, with some genes from further back in the family tree thrown into the mix. Of course, there’s still a fair amount of randomness in the system so we won’t get identical siblings unless they are, you know, identical twins.

Now, while we’re on the subject, let’s talk briefly about children and aging. This is the other huge factor in defining the appearance of a character: his or her age. The 3D system that we use gives us the possibility to have seamless aging and there’s a ton of things that are set up to take advantage of this. A newborn child will obviously be very tiny compared to when it’s all grown up. It’s adult facial features will be there already from birth but they are very toned down during early childhood to get gradually more pronounced as the character ages. When a character approaches their 30’s and 40’s their skin will get more rugged, age lines and wrinkles will start appearing in the face, and their hair turns grey. Once they enter old age their body will start sagging, posture will deteriorate, their ears and nose will get bigger and the jaw protrudes as they lose their teeth.

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Chieftain Somatu of Kevrola, from age 0 to 99

In addition to genetics and age, lifestyle choices and changes also impact a character’s appearance. Body types vary greatly from alarmingly thin victims of starvation to truly impressive bulks of some high nobility gluttons. Different levels of muscularity and fitness are also represented and tied to the “prowess” value in the game.

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Examples of different body types


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Like, every Christmas Holiday, ever


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I got ripped in five seconds!

There are a number of traits and conditions, genetic or otherwise, that have visual impact on the character portrait. Some examples of non-genetic ones are pregnancy, wounds, scars, lost arms, blindness and disfigurement. And some notable examples of genetic conditions are dwarfism, gigantism, albinism and hunchback.

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Genetic traits

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Dragoman

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You know how some people have names that just feel “right” for them?



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“You should see the other guy”

We have already discussed clothes in previous Dev Diaries so I won’t go into great detail about them. But I would like to show something I don’t think we’ve shown before. That is the barbershop feature which allows you to change clothes, head wear and hairstyle for your character:

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Barbershop
Even though the vast majority of characters have randomly generated appearances, there are some notable exceptions. The detailed setup of the DNA system allows us to design quite specific appearances where we want to. There are some historical starting characters in the game whose looks were based on how they are described in historical sources. For example William the Conqueror and Harold Godwineson of England. Of course, medieval sources are not always... perfectly reliable and the portraiture from the time not the most accurate (to put it mildly!) so we did have to do some guesswork and use a lot of artistic license. There are also a whole bunch of developer characters with appearances that match their real life counterparts. They’re lurking around various courts in the game. If you want to find some, a pro tip is to browse through the characters in modern day Sweden…

It is perfectly possible to mod DNAs as well as adding new ones, so if you feel like adding your own likeness or a medieval Abraham Lincoln to the game it is fairly easy to do so.

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Historical characters from the “Fate of England” in the 1066 start date. Guess who is who!
And finally, to end this on a more gruesome note, the last thing I’d like to show you is some diseases. As you all know, the middle ages were a time of ravaging epidemics and quick unexpected death from disease. And the game reflects that in quite a graphical way.

And if you don’t enjoy being disgusted - don’t worry - we have an option to turn off the worst looking diseases and replace them with something less nightmare-inducing.

WARNING: The following spoiler tags contain images that some viewers might find disturbing. Viewer discretion is advised.

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Don’t say I didn’t warn you
 
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You're basically responding to a bunch of insecure muppets who thinks someone from their race not looking like some blonde blue eyed ubermenschen is some great offence. Any normal person would think that guy is either frowning, squinting, and what have you. And even if they weren't, who cares? Srsly the kind of people who get butthurt about this stuff has problems.

if the mods are consequent and consistent they had to remove this comment since it violates forum rules. similar comments get removed all the time unfortunately.
we all had just a nice happy discussion and many didnt even take it seriously and those who did were just interested in the topic. You were the only person offended. lighten up buddy =)
 
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His eyes are purely that way because they wanted too have them expressions. It is not only about their posture but also about their eyes.

I think the people who think this is because "hE lOoKs AsIaN" don't notice that the devs tried (and succeeded IMO) to implement emotions.
 
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if the mods are consequent and consistent they had to remove this comment since it violates forum rules. similar comments get removed all the time unfortunately.
we all had just a nice happy discussion and many didnt even take it seriously and those who did were just interested in the topic. You were the only person offended. lighten up buddy =)

Thanks, action has been taken.

But none the less, let's keep this forum nice and friendly and respect each other's opinions.
 
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I have no idea if this is a reply to the Indian albino bit, the albino dynasty bit, or thinking albinos are cool. But it is a neat picture.
Bit off topic, must be hard to live close to equator and be that sensitive to the sun:confused:

View attachment 608185

Asian eyes look very different, even while not looking into the sun.

And here...

View attachment 608221

We can see side-by-side the difference between Asian eyes and European eyes, both ingame and in real life. Primarily this comes down to the presence of an epicanthic fold. Asian eyes show this feature very frequently, though it can even appear in Swedes, as another post in this thread shows.

The "squintiness" or "slantedness" of the eyes isn't specific to any particular ethnicity. I come from Scottish stock, and my eyes are more narrow than those of my Korean sister-in-law. Moreover, Asian eyes are quite often level, as the woman in the picture above shows... and as this image shows, Europeans can also have quite angled eyes.

View attachment 608227

Therefore, when you look at Harald next to an Asian character, it's clear to see that Harald's eyes look quite European.

(Do excuse the rant, I'm an anthropologist and these topics get me talking...)

I feel like the wide eyes chines example is were they kind of force their eyes open or is out of average. while the swedes have it natural. Opposite on the other side were it looks like the Swedes are squinting while the Asians are relaxing their eyes.

The red haired woman above Harald However i agree seem to have similar ayes. But she stand out from average.

But yes i know Norwegians with narrow eyes, however it is usually due to Sami or asian heritage. Myself did a DNA test (national geographic) and came out 2% east asian. Explained in Scandinavia as Sami interaction, common thing. Finland for example average is 7%. My eyes however is from the 98% of my other DNA for obvious reasons.

I get you however and yes probably many non Asians with narrow eyes but you know when you are in another country and you look at someone that reminds you about people back home, then you speak to them and find out it is true. Looking at Harald here i don`t feel that connection, the shape of his eyes. I don`t know, i feel it kind of having an more average asian than average Norwegian. Unrelated to squinting.

I want every culture to look as much as possible as their average, with a diversity inside that offcorse. I think Harald looks like one of his parents were Norwegian and the other Asian.

That said i think they have done an amazing job with the art, as you said that we even debate this is a good sign. To keep debating is a good thing however as we can figure out how to keep improving or we are happy with an result.

I find this topic interesting too and have no problem with disagreements :)

The sad thing about this topics however is that some misunderstand and think is some race war or something, take it upon them self to fight it like some kind of moral judge.
 
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Bit off topic, must be hard to live close to equator and be that sensitive to the sun:confused:



I feel like the wide eyes chines example is were they kind of force their eyes open or is out of average. while the swedes have it natural. Opposite on the other side were it looks like the Swedes are squinting while the Asians are relaxing their eyes.

I reckon that's your conceptions playing tricks on your mind. The Scandinavian woman on the left and the man on the right, neither appear to have the sun directly in their face or anything. Likewise, the Chinese woman on the far left looks quite relaxed, and the one to the right of the wide eyed spectrum is smiling, which naturally squints the eyes by pressing the cheeks up.

Anyway, it's an interesting discussion, but we definitely agree on one thing: The portraits are fantastic! Again, the fact that we're talking about this using real people as a comparison shows how great the portraits are in CK3.
 
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It is. Apart from being thought of as witches or cursed, they're prone to skin cancer. I think they tend to have some vision problems as well but I'm not entirely sure.

I believe I've read that their eyes are more sensitive to UV, yes, but I'm not positive on that one.
 
I reckon that's your conceptions playing tricks on your mind. The Scandinavian woman on the left and the man on the right, neither appear to have the sun directly in their face or anything. Likewise, the Chinese woman on the far left looks quite relaxed, and the one to the right of the wide eyed spectrum is smiling, which naturally squints the eyes by pressing the cheeks up.

Anyway, it's an interesting discussion, but we definitely agree on one thing: The portraits are fantastic! Again, the fact that we're talking about this using real people as a comparison shows how great the portraits are in CK3.
Maybe:) kind of hard to judge still pictures, would be easier to see movement as in a vid.

Yes the Portraits are fantastic, huge upgrade to CK2.

I believe I've read that their eyes are more sensitive to UV, yes, but I'm not positive on that one.
It is. Apart from being thought of as witches or cursed, they're prone to skin cancer. I think they tend to have some vision problems as well but I'm not entirely sure.

Bin living in Tenerife (Spain) some years. Us with blue eyes are recommended to be more careful and use sunglasses more often. As there is less melanin protection compared to brown eyes. Albinos has zero melanin protection and offcourse very vulnerable.
 
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Just adding this to the thread as there were many questions regarding it. It's finally been confirmed (or at least, it's the first confirmation I've seen)... child skin tone will be a mix of the skin tones of the parents, though not necessarily half way between them. You can also mix and match for unrealistic skin tone colors if you want to go crazy. :)

So the skin color palette that we use is a square image with gradients from light to dark on the y axis and from reddish to yellowish on the x axis.
View attachment 610259
Skin color is simply defined as a coordinate on this palette. Children that are born will get a skin color that is picked somewhere along the line between the parents' coordinates.

So you could definitely add more colors to the palette but you would have to put some thought into which colors are next to each other. If you would have all the colors of the rainbow in the palette, for example, a child between a red skinned person and a blue skinned person might get green skin :)

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Northern Europe?
If you are thinking about the Sami then yes:
Nordic_Sami_people_Lavvu_1900-1920.jpg


An innland Scandinavian minority however.
Few Samis today has eyes like this 100 year old picture, because they have mixed with Norwegians and Swedes.

Norwegian kings were never Sami however, so again strange to see Harald with eyes like that.
Not that i mind that much:)
His eyes are clearly just hooded with good under eye bone support, it's nothing like asian monolids.

An example of what I mean
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(Hooded, non hooded)

ScreenShot2019-11-07at2.41.47PM-d536a10cda1244cb99bae502807bd40f.png
(monolids, commonly found in those of descent from asia.)
 
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if the mods are consequent and consistent they had to remove this comment since it violates forum rules. similar comments get removed all the time unfortunately.
we all had just a nice happy discussion and many didnt even take it seriously and those who did were just interested in the topic. You were the only person offended. lighten up buddy =)

A nice, clean, fun discussion about "racial" traits and racial purity and how the eyes of races differ. Next I guess we are moving to skull shape ....
 
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A nice, clean, fun discussion about "racial" traits and racial purity and how the eyes of races differ. Next I guess we are moving to skull shape ....
Well it's a fact that different ethnicities have different features to tell us apart, it's pretty ignorant to lump all human beings together as exactly the same instead of embracing what makes us unique.
 
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Gentlemen, something to share. I remembered recently that a while back, I made something for generating hair and eye inheritance for a dynastic story I was writing (I obsess over these things). Based on worldwide data I was able to gather from a rather lengthy internet search, I put together percentile odds that a character would inherit a hair or eye color depending on the colors each parent had.

It's still rudimentary compared to real life, but I do wonder if it's better than the 50/50 odds we'll get ingame... and if it'll be possible to mod inheritance rules to implement it.

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The solution I employed was to put the colors on a spectrum and weight inheritance in favor of the colors closer to the darker end of the spectrum. Again, not a perfect solution, but it might feel a touch more realistic than 50/50 odds.
 
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Gentlemen, something to share. I remembered recently that a while back, I made something for generating hair and eye inheritance for a dynastic story I was writing (I obsess over these things). Based on worldwide data I was able to gather from a rather lengthy internet search, I put together percentile odds that a character would inherit a hair or eye color depending on the colors each parent had.
Are you saying that you were creating a bunch of characters, most of whom would be related to some other people (dynastic), and instead of deciding "this character's grandmother was blonde, so he can be blond", you made a chart, which you then referred to when creating said characters?!

DUUUUUUUUUUUDE!!!! :D
 
Are you saying that you were creating a bunch of characters, most of whom would be related to some other people (dynastic), and instead of deciding "this character's grandmother was blonde, so he can be blond", you made a chart, which you then referred to when creating said characters?!

DUUUUUUUUUUUDE!!!! :D

Haha! Yes, that's more or less exactly what I did. I'm very particular about my fictional dynasties!
 
Gentlemen, something to share. I remembered recently that a while back, I made something for generating hair and eye inheritance for a dynastic story I was writing (I obsess over these things). Based on worldwide data I was able to gather from a rather lengthy internet search, I put together percentile odds that a character would inherit a hair or eye color depending on the colors each parent had.

It's still rudimentary compared to real life, but I do wonder if it's better than the 50/50 odds we'll get ingame... and if it'll be possible to mod inheritance rules to implement it.

View attachment 614052

The solution I employed was to put the colors on a spectrum and weight inheritance in favor of the colors closer to the darker end of the spectrum. Again, not a perfect solution, but it might feel a touch more realistic than 50/50 odds.
It does go back more than one generation, though. For instance, I know someone whose parents had black and dark brown hair, but great-grandparents had red, and wound up with red. Too complicated to model in the game, probably, but still.