Why doesn't China not unify when westernizing?

[dergeist115]

Why doesn't China unify when westernizing?

In a house divided, I would see China always unified when the chines empire(controlller of all the substates) got westernized. Now in a heart of darkness I always see china getting divided(substates become free and separate countries). Why does this happen?

 

[grommile]

If China is the first constituent state to westernize, it absorbs the substates by event.

If a substate westernizes first, China and all the substates westernize, and substate status is revoked from all the substates.

 

[dergeist115]

If China is the first constituent state to westernize, it absorbs the substates by event.

If a substate westernizes first, China and all the substates westernize, and substate status is revoked from all the substates.

Okay, so basically China never gets unified through westernizations, only through wars with other substates and their Allies.

 

[icedt729]

Okay, so basically China never gets unified through westernizations, only through wars with other substates and their Allies.

Practically. It's pretty much always Xinjiang that civilizes first.

 

[unmerged(624310)]

On the other hand China proper is one of if not the strongest of the Chinese states and they get a restore Order CB, so rapid unification isn't out of the question even if they don't westernize first.

 

[dergeist115]

On the other hand China proper is one of if not the strongest of the Chinese states and they get a restore Order CB, so rapid unification isn't out of the question even if they don't westernize first.

Japan usually spheres manchuria, and other chinese states(except one forgot name sorry). Also the AI tends to take provinces from china.

 

[pkderek]

If a rebellion is successful in China proper, it also loses all its substates.

 

[unmerged(624310)]

Japan usually spheres manchuria, and other chinese states(except one forgot name sorry). Also the AI tends to take provinces from china.

Well I usually do my best to mess with them too, a westernized and united China is a beast, taking chunks out of them while they are weak and disunited is ideal! Also Chinese RGO's make you crazy rich

 

[unmerged(46341)]

China united and went communist in the one and only HoD game I've completed.

 

[Oliver Twopence]

If a substate westernizes first, China and all the substates westernize, and substate status is revoked from all the substates.

What's the logic in that?

 

[unmerged(46341)]

What's the logic in that?

China is only fractured into substates to represent the decentralized government. If a substate westernizes first, it represents a province getting the ultimate upper-hand over the rest of the Empire, sparking a new dynastic struggle or whatever you want.

 

[grommile]

What's the logic in that?

A substate repudiating Chinese tradition in such a fashion (rather than the Emperor arranging to change what constitutes Chinese tradition) proves that the Mandate of Heaven has been withdrawn.

 

[colinljx]

What's the logic in that?

None. The devs love to see China fail, so they made things this way.

 

[SDSkinner]

It allows them to represent the Warlord Era which doesn't end until after the game timeline is over.

 

[grommile]

None. The devs love to see China fail, so they made things this way.

Historically, China failed during the Victorian era. Therefore, in Victoria II, AI-controlled China should usually fail, and playing China should require a good understanding of game mechanics.

One can reasonably claim that AI China fails too often in V2, but one cannot reasonably claim it shouldn't fail.

 

[colinljx]

Historically, China failed during the Victorian era. Therefore, in Victoria II, AI-controlled China should usually fail, and playing China should require a good understanding of game mechanics.

One can reasonably claim that AI China fails too often in V2, but one cannot reasonably claim it shouldn't fail.

Historically, every nation failed at some period of time during the Victorian era. Therefore, in Victoria II, AI-controlled nations usually fail, and playing any nation should require a good understanding of game mechanics.

Fixed.

 

[SovietCyborg]

The Chinese central government was based around the balance between the Interior and Coastal Han provinces. The dynamics of industrialization and world trade in the 19th century broke that balance. The coast became increasingly rich while the interior was left behind. Eventually this eroded the central authority as regional leaders (some increasingly under foreign control) become more richer and powerful than the central government. Since the Quing relayed on regional militias instead of a national army, this also meant that these regional leaders had their own private armies. The worst nightmare for China came true, China fragmented into regions some of them under the control of foreign powers. The wealth created by the world trade of the 19th century caused a crisis of the central authority that broke China apart.

 

[grommile]

Historically, every nation failed at some period of time during the Victorian era.

China failed worse than many.

 

[unmerged(46341)]

Historically, every nation failed at some period of time during the Victorian era. Therefore, in Victoria II, AI-controlled nations usually fail, and playing any nation should require a good understanding of game mechanics.

Fixed.

China got slapped around by everyone during the Victorian period. Its one of the reasons they still have such a chip on their shoulder as a nation. Its not because of something nebulous or un-accountable either, its because they had a backwards government. I think it is represented quite well in V2.

 

[Thanik]

None. The devs love to see China fail, so they made things this way.

Now player have harder way to conquest China, or easiest way to westernize as China:
1) Literacy + 2% clergy is now easier to get, and maintain
2) Main issue of people is now jingoism, and this help a lot to avoid revolutions.
3) You need more warscore to get substate regions
4) Slaugthering chinese irregulars now affect less War Exhaustion of China: losses are divided between substates.
5) No land border with Russia, and UK help a lot to avoid war now.
6) As China you have easier way to manage these 500 brigades, and if you want you can take all forces from substates.
7) Less minorities - less militiancy.