We want playable theocracies!

[Demonsul]

Yes, it is possible to make theocracies playable. It is also possible to make non-dynastic gameplay possible. But that's the one thread that has been current through the entire game as we've gone through republics and pagans and India and Charlie and the goddamn Aztecs of all people.

Do people want theocracies to just become the same as feudal holdings? Or do they want to break the one consistent element of gameplay, the dynasty?

I think if Paradox wants to do theocracies, they should find some way to do them right, but presuming they can't without hybridizing them into the existing governments somehow, I'd prefer they focus on things they actually want to do.

 

[Rawrschach]

Agreeing with everyone. They don't need to be playable they just need to be interesting and add something to the game. Influencing who in the realm are bishops, adding archbishops as an important poliitcal position, will give you more to do as you slowly expand.

 

[Nastank]

Why not just have the game switch you from one dynasty to another if you play a non-dynastic title? Console commanding to a different dynasty doesnt game over you, so i dont see why this shouldnt be possible some way.
It would make claim wars against you and such pointless though...
Also, id rather see baronies playable first.

Well if they allow non-dynastic titles that are playable, I would limit that to theocracies not for feudal titles, that way claim wars are still significant. Another thing that I remembered was Mercenaries and Holy Orders. You can switch to them via console commands yet when they die you dont game over. Even though you have switched dynasty as mercenary and holy order titles are not dynasty inherited titles.

 

[loup99]

No thanks, this is a dynastical game, so no christian theocracies, and Groogy said it would stay it. Also, it seems like an overwhelming majority is against it.

 

[Carmilla]

No thanks, this is a dynastical game, so no christian theocracies, and Groogy said it would stay it. Also, an overwhelming majority is against it.

Forum majority or -actual- majority?

Before you say anything, I'm just being a nitpicker on the details. I'm not being serious.

 

[Redwulf_Storm]

I for one would like to get my inner medieval pontiff on. For all you sinners against this, prepare your poor wretched souls for the day of judgement.

Honestly, I would like to see this added one day, but, I don't think it's what this game needs most right now. I do most of my playing as a feudal lord, and would love that to be better fleshed out. In particular, adding depth of play for empires, something I think most of us wind up becoming within a few centuries of playing and something that gets kinda boring after awhile.

The nonstop blobbing is fun enough sure, but I wish there was something else to do besides just growing bigger, maybe more culture related events, buildings, more intrigue, hell, maybe even a chance that if you have two or more sons upon your death the realm will go into a civil war; especially if the second son is superior (or vastly inferior aka: puppet). Or maybe have civil wars if your main culture is less than 50% of your empires culture. It doesn't have to be war either, maybe start it via an event chain and based on your skills/abilities, and choices you can make different decisions that can unite your people or drive them further apart. I don't know, I think stuff like that would make Empires much more fun later game. That is what I feel is needed most, well besides optimization which I hear is coming.

 

[witekgreg]

I'd like to see Theocracies playable like Republics.

Only male character from your dynasty could "inherit" (or rather to be granted to the position of archbishop if he has right education/packing/prestige) if you will gather enough backing for him (I mean to Pope)

If you will have enough prestige/piety you could convert into military order, other rulers could ask you to help them with pagans/heathens giving you one holding in province for your own

 

[LRDK]

Was this actually the case for -all- playable religions by the way? I know some christian theocracies had dynastic tendencies(guessing due to the politics of the regions they existed in).

Wouldn't a workaround be to have it based on a dynastic style element part of the religion in some fashion? Like a religious order or movement?

There was another thread on this, and coming and from this idea I got this. Copied off another thread so sorry if it isn't contextual to the thread
These are some ideas I have so far. But it is mainly for Catholics, so we obviously would need ideas for Muslims, orthodox, Indian etc.
1) The theocracies have multiple "school", basically monasteries. They like the houses in MRs.
2) The school are named after the dynasty that founded it. Say a member of karlingfounded the theocracy, the first bishop of the theocracy would be of school karling.
3) Heads of schools (which act like dynasties) can ask characters to join, essentially adopting characters. It could cost piety? The head of the schools would be the candidates for the next bishop. Under papal investiture the pope would choose and under freeinvestiture the liege would choose. There would be a penalty for not choosing the candidate with the most suitable rating,increased with piety, age, and virtues, based on how much the score difference is.
4) The schools themselves have a rating based on the total piety and traits of individualmembers, the continuous age of the school, etc. which affect a number of things, and is coupled with personal score in bishopchoosing.
5) If the lowest scoring school has a low enough piety, or it dies out, it can be replaced. rulers can vie to plant there own dynasty members as the leaders of schools. A month long process of donations, submittals andother factors that have not been thought of yet will occur and the victorious candidate will be implemented as the leader of the newschool. The schools will be loyal to the dynasty that implanted it. In the end, either the Pope or secular liege will select whobecomes the next school, with the same score penalty based on difference In Scores.
6) each school will have a monastery, much like the MR palaces.
I'm not sure if this violates history too much, or if gameplay is bad etc. so these are just Ideas to make theocracies playable. Please submit your own, especially for other religions

 

[Lhutien]

I dont want playable theocracies,

it's no longer we now.

 

[omega20056]

Was this actually the case for -all- playable religions by the way? I know some christian theocracies had dynastic tendencies(guessing due to the politics of the regions they existed in).

Wouldn't a workaround be to have it based on a dynastic style element part of the religion in some fashion? Like a religious order or movement?

The Nestorian church was de facto hereditary for a while and the Armenian Apostolic church was de jure hereditary for a while too.

 

[Carmilla]

There was another thread on this, and coming and from this idea I got this. Copied off another thread so sorry if it isn't contextual to the thread
These are some ideas I have so far. But it is mainly for Catholics, so we obviously would need ideas for Muslims, orthodox, Indian etc.
1) The theocracies have multiple "school", basically monasteries. They like the houses in MRs.
2) The school are named after the dynasty that founded it. Say a member of karlingfounded the theocracy, the first bishop of the theocracy would be of school karling.
3) Heads of schools (which act like dynasties) can ask characters to join, essentially adopting characters. It could cost piety? The head of the schools would be the candidates for the next bishop. Under papal investiture the pope would choose and under freeinvestiture the liege would choose. There would be a penalty for not choosing the candidate with the most suitable rating,increased with piety, age, and virtues, based on how much the score difference is.
4) The schools themselves have a rating based on the total piety and traits of individualmembers, the continuous age of the school, etc. which affect a number of things, and is coupled with personal score in bishopchoosing.
5) If the lowest scoring school has a low enough piety, or it dies out, it can be replaced. rulers can vie to plant there own dynasty members as the leaders of schools. A month long process of donations, submittals andother factors that have not been thought of yet will occur and the victorious candidate will be implemented as the leader of the newschool. The schools will be loyal to the dynasty that implanted it. In the end, either the Pope or secular liege will select whobecomes the next school, with the same score penalty based on difference In Scores.
6) each school will have a monastery, much like the MR palaces.
I'm not sure if this violates history too much, or if gameplay is bad etc. so these are just Ideas to make theocracies playable. Please submit your own, especially for other religions

I think I read about that one. Its at least similar to what I was remembering when I wrote my questions. Just with a lot less details.

The Nestorian church was de facto hereditary for a while and the Armenian Apostolic church was de jure hereditary for a while too.

Huh. Didn't know that one. How did that happen? Accidental or just plain nepotism?

 

[omega20056]

I think I read about that one. Its at least similar to what I was remembering when I wrote my questions. Just with a lot less details.
Huh. Didn't know that one. How did that happen? Accidental or just plain nepotism?

Nestorian priests could marry and kept backing their sons as their successors.

 

[loup99]

There was another thread on this, and coming and from this idea I got this. Copied off another thread so sorry if it isn't contextual to the thread
These are some ideas I have so far. But it is mainly for Catholics, so we obviously would need ideas for Muslims, orthodox, Indian etc.
1) The theocracies have multiple "school", basically monasteries. They like the houses in MRs.
2) The school are named after the dynasty that founded it. Say a member of karlingfounded the theocracy, the first bishop of the theocracy would be of school karling.
3) Heads of schools (which act like dynasties) can ask characters to join, essentially adopting characters. It could cost piety? The head of the schools would be the candidates for the next bishop. Under papal investiture the pope would choose and under freeinvestiture the liege would choose. There would be a penalty for not choosing the candidate with the most suitable rating,increased with piety, age, and virtues, based on how much the score difference is.
4) The schools themselves have a rating based on the total piety and traits of individualmembers, the continuous age of the school, etc. which affect a number of things, and is coupled with personal score in bishopchoosing.
5) If the lowest scoring school has a low enough piety, or it dies out, it can be replaced. rulers can vie to plant there own dynasty members as the leaders of schools. A month long process of donations, submittals andother factors that have not been thought of yet will occur and the victorious candidate will be implemented as the leader of the newschool. The schools will be loyal to the dynasty that implanted it. In the end, either the Pope or secular liege will select whobecomes the next school, with the same score penalty based on difference In Scores.
6) each school will have a monastery, much like the MR palaces.
I'm not sure if this violates history too much, or if gameplay is bad etc. so these are just Ideas to make theocracies playable. Please submit your own, especially for other religions

Good time-consuming hobby idea thing, burt needless, as long as theocracies are not dynastical. They never will be, so either you play one reign and then you go on with someone in the same dynasty or you play one reign. So all of these are, sadly out of scope if they are for catholics. Also, suprisingly theocracies seem to be extremly unpopular among the user base, so I would not expect too much.