I would hardly say he was trolling simply expressing an opinion. Which I happen to agree with. The traffic is very unrealistic and it isn't that hard to create a traffic AI...Traffic Giant managed it on hardware 10 years older give or take! Also not everybody wants to spend hours and hours appraising every single nuance of the city before they start building their lines which currently you have to do because of the ridiculous traffic. Central London isn't as congested as the outer regions of Helsinki seem to be on this game!!
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I would hardly say he was trolling simply expressing an opinion. Which I happen to agree with. The traffic is very unrealistic and it isn't that hard to create a traffic AI...Traffic Giant managed it on hardware 10 years older give or take! Also not everybody wants to spend hours and hours appraising every single nuance of the city before they start building their lines which currently you have to do because of the ridiculous traffic. Central London isn't as congested as the outer regions of Helsinki seem to be on this game!!
Negative and negative. First and only account. I actually had to google 'trolling' to figure out exactly what it means! And you're actually not important to me - I first posted to show my support for the traffic problem posters.
No sir, it is YOU who are trolling, name calling and griefing. A search of your posts in this thread is all the evidence anyone needs. You're borderline abusive. You are not comfortable with people having an opinion other than your own. You do not believe people should be able to voice their concerns, if different than yours. You verbally attack people. You tell them how they think. You sir, should not be here. You have a remarkable capacity to accuse others of doing EXACTLY WHAT YOU DO. Pathologic.
Concede what point? I voiced my concerns about the game, end of story. With regards to human nature, i'm comfortable with people's innate desire to make things better, manifested by 'complaining' aka commenting aka voicing concerns. You are not.
Oh god - random people laughing at us... that thought is too much to bear... haha
You need to recognize that people have a right to post concerns. You seem to be in favour of a totalitarian regime where people don't have the right to dissent. Ironic, given your location.
Unique information is not a requirement for posting, despite what you may think. I would again ask this same question of you: Do your many inflammatory posts each offer unique information? Again, you call other people out for things that YOU do!! Can you not see this?
Negative again. I want a properly functioning game that gives me the proper tools to figure things out. You're so good at telling people what they think!
Fixing the traffic AI and game difficulty are two separate issues. Reminder: you can always turn up the difficulty.
Why are you still in this thread other than for griefing people about their legitimate concerns? Why don't you go start another thread called "Everything's super" and leave us be?
Now who is paranoid?
Do I enjoy it? Yes. Is it broken? Certainly. You see the reason I know you're nothing but a fanboy/troll is that when presented with actual evidence, like screenshots detailing broken traffic behaviour you suddenly change the argument.
I'm wondering how you had any time to apparently do that, since that's all you've been doing. You claimed to have apparently spelled it out somewhere, but a search of your posts I can't find any great insight into how it is that you've magically solved the game. Just tons of posts saying "You're wrong. You're stupid. You don't know how to play the game!" in a couple of posts you recommended how someone lay out a line in a given situation, but no where did you actually provide real information the great secret we're supposed to be missing.
Actually I can see several of his lines in those shots that are going to be backed up because of traffic. Who knows what other lines are forming as we've only got a static snapshot.
I'm not even asking for the formulas. I'm asking them to fix the broken traffic behaviour. Traffic volume may be perfectly fine if it actually goes down the road properly and doesn't needlessly get back-up.
If you notice it. It's far too easy to ignore that ticker. With so many broken buses, etc. I've never actually noticed that message go across. And by that time, it's too late. I always notice the streets backed up even more first. However, even if it was noticeable, with the rapid changes the economy goes through it makes more sense to let us set a pricing policy and have it automatically adjust with the economy. It's far too easy to get distracted building a line and not notice the economy took a massive nose-dive in the 2 minutes you were tied up doing that.
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I have never known of ticket prices going down when the economy is down. This certainly doesn't happen where i live. Tickets always go up but not down.
Well, your posts speak well enough about your goals here. You have very little to say about the game except complain about the AI. Which you have, if I may use your own terms, done so in a very vocal manner. One could easily see the other side of the coin as well. Evidently you feel it is not OK for me to come post here saying that the game is fine. Evidently I am not allowed to have an opinion different than yours. And you are name calling and "griefing" (sic). Basically everything you say negatively about me is exactly reflected in your own posts. Nobody enjoys a hypocrite.
You have made exactly three posts, all of which are inflammatory and as you say, borderline abusive. You have contributed nothing to these forums.
Why am I still in this thread? Why are you still in this thread? So far you have done two things. You have spammed the same message about AI ad naseum. And you have attacked me.
I'm not going to take each of your points and analyze them... either you or crossmr.
Other than I will comment regarding your last comment about the ticker. As you know, each person is different and each person's brain works differently. I happen to notice the ticker... my eye is always glancing over it to see what messages are being offered. Perhaps I have conditioned myself to do so. I don't miss much that happens there. This is facilitated by the fact that when I make large changes to the map, laying track, positioning things, etc, I pause the game. So when I hit play, all I'm doing is observing, clicking around, watching. I realize not everyone would want to play that way... and for some people that may be a very distastful way to play. But that style enables me to keep an eye on the ticker easily. Perhaps you could try it to see if it suites you.
Unless you accelerate time, the changes in the economy are not "rapid". In fact, I've gotten a feel for how the economy is flowing. I keep an eye on my satisfaction bar as much as I keep an eye on the ticker. Because it takes an extra second and click to check the "economy graph", I don't do it constantly. I only do it when I need to verify what I already "feel" by looking at the satisfaction bar. There is a relationship between satisfaction, the current economy, and the wages you pay your workers. When I start to see my satisfaction bar slide to the left, I can almost guarantee its because the economy is increasing and the satisfaction is going down because I am not paying enough wages for that inflation rate. The opposite is also true. If I notice my satisfaction trending towards green and I didn't directly do anything to cause it... then I know the economy is taking a downturn. If you watch the right indicators, you can just kind of develop a "feel" for the dynamics and be able to adjust without having to overthink it.
Now... it would be nice if you didn't have anything inflammatory to say about any of that... in your posts I see you may have a propensity to interpret my advice as some kind of "directive" where I'm somehow instructing people that that is how you have to play to be successful. Obviously that is absurd. So, maybe you'll read it and say.. no, thats not for me, I don't naturally like to keep an eye on satisfaction and the ticker. That's fine, choose not to. But also understand, that its these little things that help people be more successful with the game. And its not any one thing, its a combination of them that work together and add up to a more efficient system.
I'm not going to get into a war with you two on the forums here. I'm done. You managed to get me to spend way too much time responding to you on topics not related to the game. And yes, that makes you a troll.. calling me out, calling me names, and egging me on to say things outside the scope of the game. We all end up looking like fools when we do it. So I'm done with that.
You have made exactly three posts, all of which are inflammatory and as you say, borderline abusive. You have contributed nothing to these forums.
Why am I still in this thread? Why are you still in this thread? So far you have done two things. You have spammed the same message about AI ad naseum. And you have attacked me.
I'm not going to take each of your points and analyze them... either you or crossmr.
Other than I will comment regarding your last comment about the ticker. As you know, each person is different and each person's brain works differently. I happen to notice the ticker... my eye is always glancing over it to see what messages are being offered. Perhaps I have conditioned myself to do so. I don't miss much that happens there. This is facilitated by the fact that when I make large changes to the map, laying track, positioning things, etc, I pause the game. So when I hit play, all I'm doing is observing, clicking around, watching. I realize not everyone would want to play that way... and for some people that may be a very distastful way to play. But that style enables me to keep an eye on the ticker easily. Perhaps you could try it to see if it suites you.
Unless you accelerate time, the changes in the economy are not "rapid". In fact, I've gotten a feel for how the economy is flowing. I keep an eye on my satisfaction bar as much as I keep an eye on the ticker. Because it takes an extra second and click to check the "economy graph", I don't do it constantly. I only do it when I need to verify what I already "feel" by looking at the satisfaction bar. There is a relationship between satisfaction, the current economy, and the wages you pay your workers. When I start to see my satisfaction bar slide to the left, I can almost guarantee its because the economy is increasing and the satisfaction is going down because I am not paying enough wages for that inflation rate. The opposite is also true. If I notice my satisfaction trending towards green and I didn't directly do anything to cause it... then I know the economy is taking a downturn. If you watch the right indicators, you can just kind of develop a "feel" for the dynamics and be able to adjust without having to overthink it.
Now... it would be nice if you didn't have anything inflammatory to say about any of that... in your posts I see you may have a propensity to interpret my advice as some kind of "directive" where I'm somehow instructing people that that is how you have to play to be successful. Obviously that is absurd. So, maybe you'll read it and say.. no, thats not for me, I don't naturally like to keep an eye on satisfaction and the ticker. That's fine, choose not to. But also understand, that its these little things that help people be more successful with the game. And its not any one thing, its a combination of them that work together and add up to a more efficient system.
I'm not going to get into a war with you two on the forums here. I'm done. You managed to get me to spend way too much time responding to you on topics not related to the game. And yes, that makes you a troll.. calling me out, calling me names, and egging me on to say things outside the scope of the game. We all end up looking like fools when we do it. So I'm done with that.
That's certainly true, and only in extreme circumstances would I think they'd do that in real life, but in the game, they certainly want you to be adjusting the fares nearly every month. It's extremely burdensome in addition to everything else.
If you miss it, and the economy really dives, your white prices are suddenly red and your roads are even further backed up.
You're free to have a differing opinion. You're not free to to insult other people as you have and claim they don't know how to play the game because they're tired of broken traffic AI. Your big evidence to support your claims is a magical secret you won't share, screenshots from people which show the same problems we're all having, and historical photos taken out of context. These kinds of arguments all add up to one thing.
Yes because when you're faced with irrefutable screenshots of broken AI, you certainly wouldn't want to have to address those.
Let's look at your first entry into this thread shall we?
Yes, nothing inflammatory about that. You hint at a supposed solution many times, but fail to expand on what that is. Instead you fault the player and put the blame squarely on them and insult them.
The only solution you provide:
Is known to fail because for some reason putting lines down generates traffic. Those empty streets won't be empty after.
Your second post came with a further little insult
You came into the thread, insulting and aggressive. it's no wonder people responded in kind.
It would certainly take one to know one, and your entry into the thread is public record.
Yawn yawn. Are you over it yet? You're just as offensive. At least you got tired of using the term "fanboy". Evidently I'm a "fanboy" because in a sea of complaints I'm one of few bothering to post that the game seems to work fine for me?
Quote me out of context, bold text that I did not bold so it makes it look like I was more aggressive than I was. Don't show that I was responding to vitriole and people that were demanding their money back because the game was completely unplayable and broken.... while its obvious that there are plenty of other people in other threads that posted they achieved success. Just because something doesn't work the way you want it to work doesn't mean its broken, it only means you don't like how it works. Some people see little cars moving in a way they don't like. Then they say, oh well, that means the game must be unplayable. No, games like these are built with overall dynamics and balance. They are playtested and tuned as an entire system. If you make the little cars on the street behave more "lifelike" and more efficiently, then you have to tune the balance of everything else to make it harder. Because traffic is what makes this game. Adding realism to the the traffic will cause a balance issue. Because then the game would become easy-cakes. So if/when they do adjust traffic then they will also make it harder in other areas to compensate. Because the game "works" right now. The simple matter, is that now that the game has been out for a week or so, and people are learning how to play, you've got more and more people posting that they've finished the missions. Finished all the campaigns. People posting that they were able figure out how to play through campaigns with no metro and no loans. No, the game is not an utter failure, it is not "broken", it is not unplayable.
You see screenshots of a en entirely viable bus and tram-only network in downtown Amsterdam and instead of realizing... oh, its possible, maybe I should look at that closer... instead you point out that there are some cars on the street. You would prefer that the downtown streets in a major metropolis are empty like a ghost town? Yes, of course there are cars on the streets in his screenshots. Is the town totally gridlocked? Of course not, take a look. His lines are moving and he's making money.
Perhaps rather than focusing on my posts in only this thread, you could look at how my suggestions for solutions changed as I learned. I posted a page back that I know I didn't get everything "right". I never claimed to know all. But evidently I was getting something right. I've said all along that its about learning and adjusting based on observation, trial, and error. And it seems quite silly to fault me for offering suggestions of what was working for me, to people that were asking for help. People come on here asking for help, for ideas, other people offer solutions of what seems to be working for them. Welcome to a helpful community and sharing of ideas.
You say the "only solution I provide" was to recommend placing trams and buses on less-used streets. Thats not true, use the search function. I have offered suggestions and explained what worked for me in several threads here. Such as placing them off-road.
You also say that placing trams on non-busy roads "is known to fail" because that "only" generates more traffic. Placing a line on a road does not always cause a gridlocking traffic problem. If it did, then no line would be successful. All I can say is... when you make comments like this... you still haven't figured out how and where to place successful lines. I mean, its common sense. Given the choice of putting a line on a busy road or a non-busy road, I offered the simple advice of putting it on a non-busy road. And you're taking the time to quote me and say that is bad advice. Its quite simple logic and it works. I'm getting the feeling from you that you feel that any traffic on a street is an unacceptable condition.
At least I'm actually contributing and helping. I don't think the same can be said for your entries.
Anyway....I'm thinking you're employing a generous amount of selective reading and selective comprehension with the only goal of arguing with me. Perhaps you should focus on the game.
Quote me out of context, bold text that I did not bold so it makes it look like I was more aggressive than I was. Don't show that I was responding to vitriole and people that were demanding their money back because the game was completely unplayable and broken.... while its obvious that there are plenty of other people in other threads that posted they achieved success. Just because something doesn't work the way you want it to work doesn't mean its broken, it only means you don't like how it works. Some people see little cars moving in a way they don't like. Then they say, oh well, that means the game must be unplayable. No, games like these are built with overall dynamics and balance. They are playtested and tuned as an entire system. If you make the little cars on the street behave more "lifelike" and more efficiently, then you have to tune the balance of everything else to make it harder. Because traffic is what makes this game. Adding realism to the the traffic will cause a balance issue. Because then the game would become easy-cakes. So if/when they do adjust traffic then they will also make it harder in other areas to compensate. Because the game "works" right now. The simple matter, is that now that the game has been out for a week or so, and people are learning how to play, you've got more and more people posting that they've finished the missions. Finished all the campaigns. People posting that they were able figure out how to play through campaigns with no metro and no loans. No, the game is not an utter failure, it is not "broken", it is not unplayable.
You see screenshots of a en entirely viable bus and tram-only network in downtown Amsterdam and instead of realizing... oh, its possible, maybe I should look at that closer... instead you point out that there are some cars on the street. You would prefer that the downtown streets in a major metropolis are empty like a ghost town? Yes, of course there are cars on the streets in his screenshots. Is the town totally gridlocked? Of course not, take a look. His lines are moving and he's making money.
Perhaps rather than focusing on my posts in only this thread, you could look at how my suggestions for solutions changed as I learned. I posted a page back that I know I didn't get everything "right". I never claimed to know all. But evidently I was getting something right. I've said all along that its about learning and adjusting based on observation, trial, and error. And it seems quite silly to fault me for offering suggestions of what was working for me, to people that were asking for help. People come on here asking for help, for ideas, other people offer solutions of what seems to be working for them. Welcome to a helpful community and sharing of ideas.
You say the "only solution I provide" was to recommend placing trams and buses on less-used streets. Thats not true, use the search function. I have offered suggestions and explained what worked for me in several threads here. Such as placing them off-road.
You also say that placing trams on non-busy roads "is known to fail" because that "only" generates more traffic. Placing a line on a road does not always cause a gridlocking traffic problem. If it did, then no line would be successful. All I can say is... when you make comments like this... you still haven't figured out how and where to place successful lines. I mean, its common sense. Given the choice of putting a line on a busy road or a non-busy road, I offered the simple advice of putting it on a non-busy road. And you're taking the time to quote me and say that is bad advice. Its quite simple logic and it works. I'm getting the feeling from you that you feel that any traffic on a street is an unacceptable condition.
At least I'm actually contributing and helping. I don't think the same can be said for your entries.
Anyway....I'm thinking you're employing a generous amount of selective reading and selective comprehension with the only goal of arguing with me. Perhaps you should focus on the game.
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Drama queens, you been at it for 15 pages. Get a room or take it to PM.
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No, the problem is that the devs had made a bad balancing and a stupid traffic K.I. Especially the last point has NOTHING to do with the level of difficult in this game but it is only an artificial barrier.
If there would be a good traffic A.I. than maybe the game would be easier or too easy. But then it would be the job of the devs to add some other components to the game to compensate this.
Two options: The devs didn't want a good A.I. because it would mean more manpower to program...or they were too incompetent for this respectively didn't have enough time.
You ignore absolutely the facts that this game doesn't have traffic lights (which are essential for a game about traffic), that the traffic follows totally stupid rules like ignoring the second street line or cars who block a tram in the middle of a crossing etc. You ignore all these and say that the lack of these things has something to do with the level of difficult!
For that matter, employees accepting 33% or higher salary cuts is pretty unusual, too, even during a crisis. That whole part of the game economy is just very oddly modelled, as well as somewhat annoying with all the micromanagement.
A page back I called myself a fool for continue to take the bait and argue. And now we've been called drama queens. I give Three60Mafia a hearty thanks for the wake up.
I'm moving off this thread. The other two blokes there have said nothing new. They've made their point that they don't like the traffic. I've made my point that the game still works. I'm not going to respond further. I'm sure this is much to the pleasure of anyone that has been reading this thread.
I'm hoping everyone takes the highroad and just drops it. What would be unfortunate is for someone to take a "stinger" / baiting final cheap shot, just to rile me up, knowing that I plan not to respond. Let all just let it go, we've made our points, nobody is going to budge.
I'm moving off this thread. The other two blokes there have said nothing new. They've made their point that they don't like the traffic. I've made my point that the game still works. I'm not going to respond further. I'm sure this is much to the pleasure of anyone that has been reading this thread.
I'm hoping everyone takes the highroad and just drops it. What would be unfortunate is for someone to take a "stinger" / baiting final cheap shot, just to rile me up, knowing that I plan not to respond. Let all just let it go, we've made our points, nobody is going to budge.
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