Suggestion: New Arabian cultres and custom melting pot cultures

[Meshal of Arabia]

Hi everyone,

The Arabian cultures are missing the most two influential cultures in the region: Omani and Yemeni culture. Both cultures are really different from the Bedouin and Levantine cultures and been there even before Islam. It would be great to add those cultures to game to add some excitement to the boring Arabian peninsula.

Also, since there is a decision to form a kingdom/empire, how about adding a decision where you form a culture by melting the culture of the liege and the different culture of the capital province? The player chooses the name of the culture and add the bonuses of both culture to the new culture (like the new pagan reformation in holy fury).

 

[ChaosOnline]

I like the idea of new cultures especially melting pot cultures. Plus Arab culture really does need a lot more diversity. But I don't really like the idea of cultural bonuses. I feel like cultures shouldn't have bonuses.

 

[Ksiendzu]

I do not like the idea of dividing the Bedouin culture. The Arabian Peninsula would look too modern. Only Yemen would make any sense here IMO, but I am against it anyway.

 

[Rags17]

Making dynamic cultures is very hard and has been discussed many times. Until/unless PDX introduced a mechanism to meld and mutate name lists this will have to remain the perpetual wish list.

Giving each culture unique abilities is possible though but rarely used in vanilla, with the exception of the obvious eg river travelling Norse, raider Norse and Berbers etc.

 

[Ezumiyr]

The addition of more melting pot cultures is an idea that has been around since the players have seen the norman melting pot. I wonder why they only added a few more. I'm sure they are aware of how painful to see the culture map tend to be adter a few centuries in game...
I would even be a bit extreme and say that in CK2, culture replacement shouldn't be a systematic rule, but something exceptional. Additionally, we really need a way to have more cultures on the map - either by having new cultures emerge or having a way to preserve cultures (kingdoms should certainly not tend to be monocultural - even in those that started being centralized early on), preferably both.

In the case of the arabian culture, I also think it's far too monolithic. I'm not sure exactly how it should be reshaped, but if we agree that Norwegians, Danish and Swedish are different cultures, then Badawi should be split too at some point.

 

[Meshal of Arabia]

I do not like the idea of dividing the Bedouin culture. The Arabian Peninsula would look too modern. Only Yemen would make any sense here IMO, but I am against it anyway.

I agree, it would be too modern. But Omani culture would also make sense. They have a rich history and have a culture that is way different than the Bedouin culture and exisited for a long time even during the start of the Roman empire.

 

[Meshal of Arabia]

The addition of more melting pot cultures is an idea that has been around since the players have seen the norman melting pot. I wonder why they only added a few more. I'm sure they are aware of how painful to see the culture map tend to be adter a few centuries in game...
I would even be a bit extreme and say that in CK2, culture replacement shouldn't be a systematic rule, but something exceptional. Additionally, we really need a way to have more cultures on the map - either by having new cultures emerge or having a way to preserve cultures (kingdoms should certainly not tend to be monocultural - even in those that started being centralized early on), preferably both.

In the case of the arabian culture, I also think it's far too monolithic. I'm not sure exactly how it should be reshaped, but if we agree that Norwegians, Danish and Swedish are different cultures, then Badawi should be split too at some point.

To be honest, the arabian gameplay is kinda bland and lack some excitement. They are too OP and easy to play. The succession laws aren't accurate, the islamic decisions are really boring, decadence system is not necessary, and the bland blacksmith items that give the same thing to all the cultures (schimtar for example).

By far, I only enjoy playing European characters. The non European culture lack the excitement in their gameplay as they were meant to not win or expand. I hope that the new dlc fix the crusade/jihad system and add more cultures to the game.

 

[Meshal of Arabia]

I like the idea of new cultures especially melting pot cultures. Plus Arab culture really does need a lot more diversity. But I don't really like the idea of cultural bonuses. I feel like cultures shouldn't have bonuses.

I agree, bonuses should be included, but we need more cultures and new mechanics.

 

[killerbee256]

Hi everyone,

The Arabian cultures are missing the most two influential cultures in the region: Omani and Yemeni culture. Both cultures are really different from the Bedouin and Levantine cultures and been there even before Islam. It would be great to add those cultures to game to add some excitement to the boring Arabian peninsula.

Also, since there is a decision to form a kingdom/empire, how about adding a decision where you form a culture by melting the culture of the liege and the different culture of the capital province? The player chooses the name of the culture and add the bonuses of both culture to the new culture (like the new pagan reformation in holy fury).

I'm not sure about Yemeni being different enough, thought there was a unique Language in the area, Old South Arabian. But the it seem to have been dead by the earliest start date.

 

[Vityviktor]

I do not like the idea of dividing the Bedouin culture. The Arabian Peninsula would look too modern. Only Yemen would make any sense here IMO, but I am against it anyway.

In that case, "Bedouin" should be renamed to "Arabian", if that culture were to remain unified and thus simplified. Bedouins are desert nomads, while places like Yemen, Oman and the Hejaz were inhabited by sedentary peoples mainly. Also, Yemen area had ties with Axum, and Oman with Persia. Maybe a differentiation between "Bedouin" and "Coastal Arabic" could be done, as a compromise.

 

[Crenickator]

I do wish cultures acted like titles, could produce titular cultures, had a hierarchy, and could drift in and out of one main group to another, and be renamed by the player at will, or via event. As well, I would like to see each title have a culture attached to it.
As an example, Normans were Norse, but the melting pot/culture split resulted in their own culture in Normandy.

Let's say, that as part of the Kingdom of France, Normandy's default culture is French.
When the Norse conquer Normandy and then become vassals of the French King, culture drift begins, with a MTTH for creating a new Norman culture, based on Normandy's adjective, and Norman Culture being a subset of French Culture. On the other hand, it's also possible for the Norse to become French, depending on how individual characters act.
Were Normandy with Norman Culture to become independent from the Kingdom of France, Norman Culture would gradually leave French Culture's influence, and once complete, would now be its own separate culture.

 

[Karlingid]

I'm not sure about Yemeni being different enough, thought there was a unique Language in the area, Old South Arabian. But the it seem to have been dead by the earliest start date.

It wasn't really dead for the first two or three start dates, so much as it was simply not being written anymore. The rise of other powers like the Caliphate and Aksum disrupted the local South Arabian literary record in favor of other languages, and once conversion to Islam occurred, the government of the area would use Arabic as Muslims tend to do.

Even with this disconnect, and possibly the death of the languages in the early Islamic period, the Charlemagne start date should certainly have at least two cultures representing the Yemen region and spreading into Oman a bit. These would theoretically be "South Arabian"/"Sayhadic", and "Himyarite". The Himyarites were not only religiously Jewish, but their language is known to have survived in force to at least the Old Gods start date and possibly the 1066 one as well. Sayhadi(c) and Himyarite cultures would, I think, do the region some justice- even if they would largely share a name list- and provide the historical distinction deserving to the South Arabian region as well as in general adding flavor to Arabian/East African starts.

 

[Riftwalker]

i mentioned in another recent culture thread. We really need a DLC that just focuses on and revamps how cultures are protrayed.

like make dyanamic melting pots more likely than just overwriting unless there's some depopulation or some such happening. give cultures cultural authority, etc. dyanamic cultures would just swap culture groups and cultures of the same culture groups would have very little being ruled by one another. the example i gave was croatian would become Byantine-Croation and this would eat croatian and vice versa like normal, but other cultures would just meld them into their culture group.

this way the map still has some distinction very far into the game, etc. I think normal culture conversion would be allowed as well semi-recently after certain casus belli, such as holy war, conquest and invasions, but otherwise would just do the above.

heads of a culture would be whomever has the largest realm of that culture and would affect their cultural authority with military and stewardship, the next 4 highest independant rules would also contribute moral authority based on their rank. maybe also an "organized versus non organized" like bonus based on if that culture has ever held a empire title.

on top of that give cultures more unique flair besides buildings, maybe change tech and have it tied to cultural progression, where each duke or higher spends their points in various areas to unlock various things, from standard tech stuff to maybe gaining a special perk such as neighbor raiding, tax income, levies, etc. this would be kinda like betting, where each duke is putting points in various areas but if something else raises first the others would be reduced to 0 again. only way to really coordinate is the AI will generally favor the either head of culture or their most liked empire of their culture.

like you're french and REALLY want to get ahistorial raiding but the AI just won't have it, so you go and create Francia and you'll be able to get the AI to focus on that or this. maybe change the cultural retinue to a better one, etc.

just think it would make culture much more important and fun.

 

[klopkr]

Lets put in the Quarmatians too while we're at it!