Regiment composition

[Hannibal_M]

Hello again!

I have a question regarding units in my regiment, especifically pikemen. How can I have more? I want to declare war on the Il Khanate, but I'll require lots of pikemen and my regiments have none. On the province window, it says that increasing the power of burghers, my regiment will hold more archers and pikemen, and increasing the power of clergy will hold more light cavalry and heavy infantry. Because light infantry is weak, I gave peasants 0% powerr, and because heavy armored units are pasture for horse archers, I also gave nobles 0% power to avoid knights, and split power between burghers 70% (pikemen and archers, both useful) and clergy 30% (light cavalry useful, heavy infantry useless). This seemed logical, no? Besides, I changed the law to popular law, because it says my regiments will tend to be light with emphasis on archers and pikemen.

It worked very well, the regiments' composition was exactly as I wanted. The problem was, my vassals complained all the time about my heavy hand, and the choices were to ignore them and lose prestige, or change to feudal contract. I always ignored them, and my prestige was dropping very fast. In the end I changed laws, but not to feudal, as it would emphasize knights, but traditional custom. The description says in traditional law my regiments will be very mixed with few knights. Well, they certainly don't have any knights, but they also have light infantry, and worst, they have no pikemen! Not a single one. Why is that so? The burgher-clergy powers are still 70%-30%, and peasants, burghers, clergy and nobles all have a loyalty of 100%.

So, is there a way to avoid light infantry and provide more pikemen, other than go with popular law?

Playing Deus Vult, 2.1 beta.

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

As far as i recall it only looked as such right after changing the law.
It takes a month or so for troop numbers to adjust.

Also keep in mind that already raised tropps don't change until disbanded.
Traditional Law definitely doesn't prevent pikemen and provides them.

Also check your religious law, if clergy actually gives troops or not.


Also check the events for realm laws to deal with the modifiers.
Yes, sadly one needs to read game files to understand it. A true Paradox game.
It's great for trying to simulate life though.
Just playing the game without knowing the rules is surely more exciting (The problem is that one knows that there are rules).


db\events\law_events.txt
For popular law it's id = 6607 at line 824

Basically you need prestige and good traits as liege to counter the "heavy handed" events/make them rare.

Meh i'll just copy and paste it (in spoiler)

Spoiler

###################################################
# A vassal tires of his ruler's laws: Popular Law #
###################################################

character_event = { #You are growing weary of your liege’s heavy handed rule under Popular Law.

    id = 6607
    picture = "event_claim"

    trigger = {
        condition = { type = ruler }
        condition = { type = is_vassal }
        condition = { type = not value = { type = has_law value = { popular_law = yes } } }
        condition = {
            type = or
            condition = { type = religion value = catholic }
            condition = { type = religion value = orthodox }
        }
        condition = {
            type = liege
            condition = { type = is_independent }
            condition = { type = has_law value = { popular_law = yes } }
        }
    }

    mean_time_to_happen = {
        years = 50

        modifier = {
            condition = { type = has_law value = { feudal_contract_law = yes } }
            factor = 0.75
        }
        modifier = {
            condition = { type = has_law value = { royal_preorgatory_law = yes } }
            factor = 0.75
        }
        modifier = {
            condition = {
                type = liege
                condition = { type = trait value = arbitrary }
            }
            factor = 0.8
        }
        modifier = {
            condition = {
                type = liege
                condition = { type = trait value = selfish }
            }
            factor = 0.8
        }
        modifier = {
            condition = {
                type = liege
                condition = { type = trait value = indulgent }
            }
            factor = 0.8
        }
        modifier = {
            condition = {
                type = liege
                condition = { type = trait value = proud }
            }
            factor = 0.8
        }
        modifier = {
            condition = {
                type = liege
                condition = { type = trait value = lustful }
            }
            factor = 0.8
        }
        modifier = {
            condition = {
                type = liege
                condition = { type = trait value = wise }
            }
            factor = 1.25
        }
        modifier = {
            condition = {
                type = liege
                condition = { type = trait value = just }
            }
            factor = 1.25
        }
        modifier = {
            condition = {
                type = liege
                condition = { type = trait value = generous }
            }
            factor = 1.25
        }
        modifier = {
            condition = {
                type = liege
                condition = { type = trait value = modest }
            }
            factor = 1.25
        }
        modifier = {
            condition = { type = trait value = proud }
            factor = 0.8
        }
        modifier = {
            condition = { type = trait value = deceitful }
            factor = 0.8
        }
        modifier = {
            condition = { type = trait value = loyalist }
            factor = 1.5
        }
        modifier = {
            condition = { type = not value = { type = prestige value = 0 } }
            factor = 1.1
        }
        modifier = {
            condition = { type = not value = { type = prestige value = 25 } }
            factor = 1.1
        }
        modifier = {
            condition = { type = prestige value = 200 }
            factor = 0.9
        }
        modifier = {
            condition = { type = prestige value = 300 }
            factor = 0.9
        }
        modifier = {
            condition = {
                type = liege
                condition = { type = not value = { type = prestige value = 0 } }
            }
            factor = 0.9
        }
        modifier = {
            condition = {
                type = liege
                condition = { type = not value = { type = prestige value = 50 } }
            }
            factor = 0.9
        }
        modifier = {
            condition = {
                type = liege
                condition = { type = not value = { type = prestige value = 100 } }
            }
            factor = 0.9
        }
        modifier = {
            condition = {
                type = liege
                condition = { type = prestige value = 350 }
            }
            factor = 1.1
        }
        modifier = {
            condition = {
                type = liege
                condition = { type = prestige value = 500 }
            }
            factor = 1.1
        }
        modifier = {
            condition = { type = liege condition = { type = is_friend } }
            factor = 2.0
        }
        modifier = {
            condition = { type = liege condition = { type = is_rival } }
            factor = 0.5
        }
    }

    action_a = { # Maybe my liege is not fit to rule
        ai_chance = 95
        effect = { type = add_title_claim value = liege }
        effect = { type = loyalty value = -0.33 }
        effect = { type = add_trait value = rebellious }
        effect = { type = trigger for = liege value = 6609 }
    }

    action_b = { # I will reluctantly bend to his will
        ai_chance = 5
        effect = { type = set_law value = popular_law }
        effect = { type = prestige value = -50 }
        effect = { type = loyalty value = -0.15 }
        effect = { type = trigger for = liege value = 6610 }
    }
}

So your traits are probably too bad to return to Popular, but Traditional Customs should do fine while tweaking the classes powers in the provinces.

 

[Hannibal_M]

First, regarding your comments:

As far as i recall it only looked as such right after changing the law.
It takes a month or so for troop numbers to adjust.

Also keep in mind that already raised tropps don't change until disbanded.
Traditional Law definitely doesn't prevent pikemen and provides them.

Also check your religious law, if clergy actually gives troops or not.

It has been years since I reverted to taditional law, and my regiments are not mobilized and at full size. I checked their composition holding the pointer over them on the province windows. At 70% burghers - 30% clergy power, their composition is as I described.

However, some time later, one bishop became pope, and I gained his province. It had different power balance as my other provinces, and its regiment had pikemen. So it made me think that I wasn't splitting the power correctly. To be sure, I made some tests. I had 15 provinces, so I increased their power as follows. In alphabetic order:

• 4 provinces: 100% peasants.
• 4 provinces: 100% burghers.
• 4 provinces: 100% nobles.
• 3 provinces: 100% clergy.

I waited until their loyalties were all at 100%. All except the 15th, Thrake. It became heretic and not long before it revolted, and their peasants and burghers lost loyalty, so let's ignore the last province.

Then I mobilized all regiments and captured the army screen. Here they are:

Traditional law, ecclesiastic balance.

Traditional law, church supremacy.

Popular law, eclesiastic balance.

Popular law, church supremacy.

Acording to it, under traditional law:
All classes give heavy infantry.
Peasant power gives pikemen.
Burgher power gives archers.
Noble power gives light infantry.
Clergy power gives light cavalry and light infantry.

Under popular law:
Peasant and burgher power gives archers and pikemen.
Noble and clergy power gives light cavalry and heavy infantry.

Ecclesiastic power and church supremacy make no difference. On the images, it seems that under popular law, regiments in church supremacy hold more people, but that's because after I changed to popular law, the regiments' size and classes loyalty decreased, so I waited a few months until everyone were at 100% loyalty before mobilizing, then I captured the screen, under ecclesiastic balance. Then reloaded, changed to church supremacy and waited a month to see if their composition changed, then captured screen again. Because the regiments weren't at full size, they filled a bit in that month, that's why they have more people. But I believe the increase will be linear, so if a province produced only archers and pikement at 90% of its regiment, it won't fill the remaining 10% with knights and light infantry.

Soooo...

Does it make sense? It doesn't at all look like what the description says, unless I'm missing something. My assuption is that the description is wrong.

Now, about vassals complainig...

Basically you need prestige and good traits as liege to counter the "heavy handed" events/make them rare.


So your traits are probably too bad to return to Popular, but Traditional Customs should do fine while tweaking the classes powers in the provinces.

I had a lot of prestige then, I don't remember exactly how much, but I calculated I had enough prestige to ignore every vassal three times. With about 300 vassals and 900 prestige loss each time, that means I must have had about 900,000 prestige. Enough to not be a problem. My recent king has around 600,000.

The problem is the number of vassals. Given a *healthy* mix of good and bad traits, with now 400 vassals, a MTTH of 50 years means that statistically I'll be getting the event every... 1.5 months! And I am. For once, the RNG is working as expected.

My conclussion is, change to popular law, erradicate the mongol "threat" (they haven't been much of a threat, in fact they've been standing peacefully in their province for almost half century, but that's stuff for another thread), then hang on for the required years and revert to traditional law ASAP. My court now has many military geniuses, 3 guys have a martial skill of 21, 2 of which are brilliant strategists. Another 5 guys have a martial skill of 16 and above, one of which is the king, who is also a brilliant strategist. So now is the time to strike! I'll tell you how it worked.

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

First, regarding your comments:


.......

Acording to it, under traditional law:
All classes give heavy infantry.
Peasant power gives pikemen.
Burgher power gives archers.
Noble power gives light infantry.
Clergy power gives light cavalry and light infantry.

Under popular law:
Peasant and burgher power gives archers and pikemen.
Noble and clergy power gives light cavalry and heavy infantry.

Now that you say it , it could well be changing by Realm Laws. Probably forgot that part.

Ecclesiastic power and church supremacy make no difference.

Well i still think to recall it does, but haven't played for too long to know.
I only recall that replenishing after changing class power took ages and i'm not sure if a few months is enough.

It doesn't at all look like what the description says, unless I'm missing something. My assuption is that the description is wrong.

Tooltips were misleading, because lack of updates, in Paradox games since...ever.
CK1 is (sadly) no exemption.

I'd rather recommend the info in the threads in the FAQ subforum here.

Now, about vassals complainig...

.. with now 400 vassals, ...

400 ? Have you conquered the world already ?
Too many vassals.
As far as i recall you can hand out king titles just like in CK2 to reduce the problem....or is that all kings ?

My conclussion is, change to popular law, erradicate the mongol "threat" (they haven't been much of a threat, in fact they've been standing peacefully in their province for almost half century, but that's stuff for another thread), then hang on for the required years and revert to traditional law ASAP. My court now has many military geniuses, 3 guys have a martial skill of 21, 2 of which are brilliant strategists. Another 5 guys have a martial skill of 16 and above, one of which is the king, who is also a brilliant strategist. So now is the time to strike! I'll tell you how it worked.

Yup, that sounds like a plan, (frontal) Attack !

Some info, i played vanilla modless about until Saddam Hussein died, so all my experience is clouded
not only by time ( i actually had a huge break before replaying CK1 shortly before CK2 release and had forgotten that i owned the game before),
but by the overhaul mods DVIP and TASS.

I seriously recommed both, as they also fixed a lot of issues that were still around after the last beta patch for Deus Vult.
Cheers