As someone who rarely plays a tag more than once, I despise them. Pretty much everything about them are opposite to what I enjoy about EU4.
Judging by Johan's posts over the past year or so a Imperator style system seems more likely.
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In what way? EU3 gave you a single random mission to follow from a pool of missions. If you played tags with flavour, you likely got missions telling you to go to war with specific countries.
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Still feels less rigid than a tree. The latter one resembles a plan you have to accomplish, while that one is just some stuff you can do or not do in meanwhile. Presentation is important in that stuff.
Same reason i'm not a fan of focus trees in hoe and prefer event chains in darkest hour. Trees make it feel like the world will simply stop if you don't click the next button, while the events make it seem like you observe the development of history and country and make some desisions along the way.
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They were good at times, and terrible at other times. The problem I had (and still have, since I still play it fairly often) was that there was only one mission available at a time, so if it made NO sense, you were stuck with it. Refusing a mission cost you 5 Prestige, and then you couldn't refuse another mission for 5 years. Too often, the "Make Bohemia vote for us" mission (impossible without cutting Bohemia down to 4 or less provinces in one or two wars and then vassalizing them in the next - even less practical when they're allied to France or England) would be replaced by "Naval Race with England" (when you have a Naval Force Limit of 2 ships) or something similar that your country wasn't capable of doing for at least another century. Too many of the missions were either suicidal, pointless, or just stupid under the present circumstances.
I got a "Build an army for our nation" mission last night, where my poor provinces can barely support an army that's just over half of my force limit. It will be half a century before I get the tech upgrades to boost my income to the level necessary to support an army of that size, and it would STILL be a poor use of funds for a trivial Land Tradition reward that will decay to negligible size in just a few years.
Combine the limitations of a single mission with the system of prioritizing certain missions, and that mission you refused might keep coming back (I refused "Make Bohemia vote for us" twice already, and if I refuse the current mission, I KNOW what will replace it), because the developers gave it a high priority. Priorities were mostly given in orders of magnitude, so a low priority mission would be 1/10th as likely to show up as a medium-priority mission, and 1/1000th as likely to appear as a high-priority mission. If you didn't WANT to do that high-priority mission, your options were to either keep refusing it every 5 years for a loss in Prestige, or else quit and reload an average of 1000 times before some particular more desirable mission appeared. Weighting some missions higher than others makes sense, weighting them to the point where it's highly improbable that anything else will happen, no matter how improbable or undesirable the mission may be, is blatant railroading. Giving you only one bad choice that keeps coming back over and over is annoying.
There need to be several missions to choose from, not a single mission as in EU3., and completing it should force a revision of the other choices, so picking one might or might not result in another interesting mission vanishing.
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I agree event chains can be better, but I also worry that they simply become a mission/focus tree in their own right, just dressed up as multiple-choice event.
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Absolutely. It's a question of game design, and it goes far further than a "simple" mechanic. Will Paradox lean towards simulation, or still more story telling? One could say mission trees represent "railroading" and historicity, while societal values and government reforms represent history and simulation. I hope we get the least possible of the former and the most possible of the latter.
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Please never bring those back. Rolling missions as England until you got the Vassalise Scotland mission was a particular low point in EU3 and early EU4.
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In eu4 had 3 missions, more choice, but in eu4 5 prestige are very few!
Rather than having an England-centric mission to vassalize Scotland, have a generic mission which gives you a discount on infamy for vassalizing a problematic neighbor who has been raiding your territory. Ideally, such a mission would become available after a border war with them, as a way of preventing further border incidents. The mission parameters could be written, and other events/choices (including AI choices by Scotland or whoever the other party happens to be) designed to make such a mission highly likely for England, but not restricted to them. Set up the conditions in a historical manner so that historical events are likely to happen, rather than forcing them whether they fit the circumstances or not.
Events leading up to major wars could be triggered between the two top powers in an economic region, regardless of who those powers are. That should lead to a likely (but not inevitable) confrontation between England and France at some point, and various other historical wars for dominance in different regions. The diplomatic options, depending on relative influence and military power, could include one side backing down and acknowledging their place as the secondary power, a compromise or division of spheres of interest, a drawn-out and ruinous economic war, or a deadly military confrontation. This could be an event chain with multiple branches, so your choices alter the odds and nature of further incidents, events, and responses.
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A good thing can be rival nations (exemple french are in a war angainst X, the english help X in various way)
You have listed several mechanics that are unlikely to be in the game (Spheres of influence, secondary powers, raiding, border wars, ect.).
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But because 1) is fantasy, 2) is totally a new world, 3) the MT are more deep and well done than pdx vanilla.
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I think you are misrepresenting the part where the other posters say that they don’t want any mission or event to be specifically about a given country, but rather that organic criterias could bring a similar result than railroading mission/events.
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"Flavor" means "thing that I like", so saying that some people don't like things that you consider flavor just means that different people have different tastes. I don't think that is nearly as revolutionary an argument as you think it is.
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Depends on what you mean by "flavor." As I have repeated many, many times, generic and dynamic events should, and must, have their place in this game - flavor text may be restricted to magical and mystical things like TAGs, if you so wish. And no one is arguing that region-, religion-, and geography-based flavor should not exist. We are merely saying that flavor should not be tied extensively to made-up things like the name a particular polity has in-game (my preferred definition of a TAG, to be clear).
With regards to this, beyond what Arizal has mentioned, you are also forgetting that (a) a TAG may only have one mission tree, where it may have plenty of event chains, (b) event chains are based on the responses of more than one polity, and thus are inherently more random, (c) the "mission tree" system as it exists in EUIV follows (as more DLC are released) increasingly fantastical manifestations of that country's historical performance, a pitfall events will simply not fall into, since they are REACTIVE, and not proactive, (d) mission trees as they stand also serve only to provide a tag with buffs and further modifiers, which event chains will not necessarily have, (e) there are very few mission trees with "branching choices," and they certainly do not provide any relevant narrative - where choices are made they are either extremely pedestrian ("which religion will you choose?", etc.) and no doubt most players merely use the path that provides them the quickest/most "meta" benefit (because there can be by definition no negatives when following a mission tree).
I mean, by all means, if you are suggesting all mission trees in EUV will have branching choices that react to the choices you and the AI make over the course of the game, while also not necessarily acting as an everlasting font for more and more positive modifiers, while also not serving purely as a means to shove out and sell further DLC, then I will have 50% less of a problem with the system. I will also no doubt witness pigs flying outside my window immediately after.
In a sentence (which is not as long as the one above) - event chains drive the narrative forward; mission trees give the player a (undeserved) dopamine boost.
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I think we all have a basic understanding of flavour as 'unique experience when playing as a nation'. And if you think you can get that from generic events and generic mechanics, then you are wrong. Take lessons from vic 3.
There will, of course, be generic events. It would be silly to think otherwise, so fear not on that front. Those 'magical' and 'mystical' things called TAGs have another name, countries. And I wouldn't call counties some kind of magical, mystical concept from the realms of fantasy like you are framing them here. England should have unique events because they are England. France should have unique French events, Prussia, Prussian events.
It would be stupid to have it any other way, what do you want to do? Have some kind of generic system for nations that simulates the English civil war? How would that even look? It would be ridiculous to have Oliver Cromwell pop up in Spain. Would be easier to just not have the English civil war, and everything else for that matter, then, BAM, no flavour.
People will complain, and we get DLC that sells us the flavour that should be in at launch.
I would bet good money that EU5 will have mission trees similar to imperator, which had branching missions and more than one mission tree for every nation.
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