Paradox Grand Strategy becoming stale

[Strossi]

Greetings,

I have a history going back more than a decade spanning through all HoI, Vicky, and Europa titles plus Stellaris.




However, with Imperator I have finally decided against pre-purchasing and trusting Paradox. Seeing the reviews and gameplay, I feel justified.

This is the main argument I am bringing forth. Paradox Interactive has failed to keep up with their excellent record of unique and interesting games. The releases are becoming boring, repetetive, uninspired, and worst of all; simplistic.

Has the company sought to find the unicorn called the wider audience? Is this what happened?
Has going public put quality, and consequently customers, in second place? The bottom line counts for sure.
Has the development team become uninspired after years of success? No real competition in grand strategy games.

Perhaps none of these, perhaps all of them. All I know is that I am dissapointed; I am not turning my back, Imperator is the sacrificial lamb. I look forwards to the next grand release Paradox makes.


I hope for something new and exciting, something which engages the player while also working with the AI and game thematic.

My vision of something as such is the absolutely amazing work done by the modding comunity for EU4: MEIOU and Taxes mod. https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/MEIOU_and_Taxes
They implemented a dynamic population (and other) system into EU4. With their mod EU4 might aswell be considered EU5. But due to the nature of it being jury rigged ontop of the engine, it is not hardware friendly.

Paradox has to come out with something with at least as much depth as the MEIOU and Taxes mod.
http://www.nasdaqomxnordic.com/aktier/microsite?Instrument=SSE123234&name=Paradox Interactive

300 professionals at Paradox cannot keep up with a MOD? Its sad.

Best of luck to US ALL, as fans and customers...

 

[AndrewT]

Appears to be about PDS games only, so moved appropriately.

 

[Ragatokk]

I agree with you, except I think I will be turning my back to the company as I have just been getting more and more disappointed for the last three grand strategy releases.

 

[Siegfriedfr]

They'll keep on doing what they are doing as long as the sells numbers ar eon the up. I'm afraid there is nothing you can do but wait for competition.

 

[Duuk]

#FakeNews

 

[Ixal]

Yeah, PDX has fallen into the trap of dumbing down games for mass market appeal and completely forgot that the only reason people bought PDX games in the past were that they were not dumb.
Someone at Paradox is really out of touch with the customer base.

And while PDX games get more "streamlined" other companies improve the quality of their games to (soon? already?) rival the newer games of PDX in their own game. Just look at the new Total War Three Kingdoms which has vastly improved diplomacy, character handling and economy system compared to its previous games. What kind of edge does Imperator still have compared to it?

 

[Duuk]

Yeah, PDX has fallen into the trap of dumbing down games for mass market appeal and completely forgot that the only reason people bought PDX games in the past were that they were not dumb.
Someone at Paradox is really out of touch with the customer base.

And while PDX games get more "streamlined" other companies improve the quality of their games to (soon? already?) rival the newer games of PDX in their own game. Just look at the new Total War Three Kingdoms which has vastly improved diplomacy, character handling and economy system compared to its previous games. What kind of edge does Imperator still have compared to it?

...except that "out of touch with the customer base" has led to them increasing their sales exponentially over the last few years. So their base is growing by leaps and bounds and more and more people are being exposed to their Grand Strategy Games. CK2, HOI4, and Stellaris are all Top 30 games on Steam.

People on this forum thinking that their own personal dislike somehow represents the mainstream of gamer thought when that is CLEARLY not the case is stunning as it flies in the face of actual, provable fact.

 

[Ixal]

...except that "out of touch with the customer base" has led to them increasing their sales exponentially over the last few years. So their base is growing by leaps and bounds and more and more people are being exposed to their Grand Strategy Games. CK2, HOI4, and Stellaris are all Top 30 games on Steam.

People on this forum thinking that their own personal dislike somehow represents the mainstream of gamer thought when that is CLEARLY not the case is stunning as it flies in the face of actual, provable fact.

So how are the Imperator player numbers these days?

 

[Duuk]

So how are the Imperator player numbers these days?

https://www.pcgamesn.com/imperator-rome/sales
"Imperator:Rome beats sales targets"

https://steamcharts.com/app/859580

Peak players 29k, average players 8300.

CK2 avg 7337
HOI4 avg 13400
EUIV avg 10000
Stellaris 10166


The first Rome game bombed. Everybody SAYS they want Rome games. Nobody actually does. Rome: Total War was only a decent seller because of the Total War name (AFTER Shogun: Total War).

When the 1.1 patch hits, it'll pick up again, and people will howl about how broken it is, and they'll whine and complain. Then they'll gnash their teeth and rend their garments. In suitable Roman fashion. Then Johan will drop a Dev Diary with the first expansion "Delenda Est" and the sales numbers will jump through the roof, ad infinitum.

This prediction courtesy of your Uncle Duukie.

 

[Ixal]

CK2 avg 7337
HOI4 avg 13400
EUIV avg 10000
Stellaris 10166

24 hour peak players:
CK2 9,107
HOI4 16,285
EUIV 13,202
Stellaris 18,487
Imperator 3,997

Imperator has less than a 3rd of the players than EU4 even though it is very new when player numbers are the highest.
And the latest EU4 DLC is the first time I have seen a "very negative" review rating in steam.

The latest few releases from PDX across all game lines, with the exception of Holy Fury which seems to have been the very last DLC for CK2, were received badly by the community, even outside the PDX forum and, where it can be tracked, have low player numbers. Especially in EU4 the complains don't come out of the blue, but have been going on for a while now.

 

[Duuk]

were received badly by the community

The sales numbers disagree with you.

 

[Ixal]

The sales numbers disagree with you.

Please show me the sale numbers of the last few DLCs and Imperator.

 

[Jamey]

My vision of something as such is the absolutely amazing work done by the modding comunity for EU4: MEIOU and Taxes mod.

This is my vision of an overly complicated nightmare.

I think it’s awesome for people that mods like M&T (or Black Ice in HOI) for people who want that extra complexity, but it’s not my cup of tea and I suspect it would greatly limit the market for Paradox games.

 

[Nyrael]

Yeah, PDX has fallen into the trap of dumbing down games for mass market appeal and completely forgot that the only reason people bought PDX games in the past were that they were not dumb.
Someone at Paradox is really out of touch with the customer base.

And while PDX games get more "streamlined" other companies improve the quality of their games to (soon? already?) rival the newer games of PDX in their own game. Just look at the new Total War Three Kingdoms which has vastly improved diplomacy, character handling and economy system compared to its previous games. What kind of edge does Imperator still have compared to it?

Yeah, dumbing down... Besides the fact there is nothing dumbed down anywhere. The newest Imperator de-dumbed down the first game, Stellaris' last expansion caused an outrage because it made Planetary Management and economy too complex, etc.

The main issue with Imperator is that it's too simple, which is 1) because it did nit have the DLC necessary to bring it to level of older games and 2) because pre-DLC games were simpler and I:R is direct sequel to that.

I feel people here are making up issues rather than focusing on actual issues. And that makes solving the actual unlikelier.

 

[Ixal]

there is nothing dumbed down anywhere
...
The main issue with Imperator is that it's too simple,

Makes totally sense.
And I:R not having DLCs is no excuse. Development does not always start from 0. You cant develop a new line of cars and start with a hand crank in the first models because thats how the first cars worked.

And were are the complex mechanics in EU4? It all just 3 button buffs with no mechanic behind it. The Megacorps system also wasn't "too complex and difficult' like you pretend, but another big deviation to how the game worked before which is not everyones taste.

 

[Ivashanko]

This is my vision of an overly complicated nightmare.

I think it’s awesome for people that mods like M&T (or Black Ice in HOI) for people who want that extra complexity, but it’s not my cup of tea and I suspect it would greatly limit the market for Paradox games.

I really like MEIOU. I loved Magna Mundi. I'll take the biggest, most complicated mod and crush it. But even I don't think that is the direction Paradox should take. Most people aren't like that, and if they cater to people who are like me Paradox would suffer.

 

[Ujin]

Yeah, dumbing down... Besides the fact there is nothing dumbed down anywhere. The newest Imperator de-dumbed down the first game, Stellaris' last expansion caused an outrage because it made Planetary Management and economy too complex, etc.

The main issue with Imperator is that it's too simple, which is 1) because it did nit have the DLC necessary to bring it to level of older games and 2) because pre-DLC games were simpler and I:R is direct sequel to that.

I feel people here are making up issues rather than focusing on actual issues. And that makes solving the actual unlikelier.

The matter is not primarily in the missing content, there are still a lot of bugs, performance problems and a bad interface.

 

[zorkman]

https://www.pcgamesn.com/imperator-rome/sales
"Imperator:Rome beats sales targets"

https://steamcharts.com/app/859580

Peak players 29k, average players 8300.

CK2 avg 7337
HOI4 avg 13400
EUIV avg 10000
Stellaris 10166


The first Rome game bombed. Everybody SAYS they want Rome games. Nobody actually does. Rome: Total War was only a decent seller because of the Total War name (AFTER Shogun: Total War).

When the 1.1 patch hits, it'll pick up again, and people will howl about how broken it is, and they'll whine and complain. Then they'll gnash their teeth and rend their garments. In suitable Roman fashion. Then Johan will drop a Dev Diary with the first expansion "Delenda Est" and the sales numbers will jump through the roof, ad infinitum.

This prediction courtesy of your Uncle Duukie.

What are you on about. Imperator is no longer in the top 100 played games on Steam, & hasn't been for a few days now. The other four Paradox games certainly are. Great going for a newly released 'A' game from Paradox.

 

[Juboboman]

What are you on about. Imperator is no longer in the top 100 played games on Steam, & hasn't been for a few days now. The other four Paradox games certainly are. Great going for a newly released 'A' game from Paradox.

Yeah IR has averaged under 4k players for the past week and it's still falling. He was using monthly averages that included the initial launch. As the new month numbers continue to roll over and the average crashes from 8k to 3.5k he'll be no where to be found with the "everything is absolutely alright" Baghdad Bob routine.

 

[fr-rein]

The main issue with Imperator is that it's too simple, which is 1) because it did nit have the DLC necessary to bring it to level of older games and 2) because pre-DLC games were simpler and I:R is direct sequel to that.

I disagree.
I tried Imperator briefly and I don't feel like it is simple. Compared to predecessor, EU: Rome, it is much better, and even compared to EU4 it is a better foundation from which game could hugely improve.

But what lacked there was content. I had not seen that much difference between different tribes, republics or monarchies.
In fact, not even Rome was that fleshed out like EU4 had for majors or CK2 had for recommended nations (living up to Crusader and feudalism and only later expanding to other features).
I mean, imagine that Germany in HoI plays like Czechoslovakia or Hungary. HoI4 had balance issues where latter could do weird results (dunno if today it can be done in SP), but at least the flavour differentiated these nations along with different strategic positions.

I:R would look much better if it restricted playable nations to Italia region and maybe Greece + Carthage. Right now, it feels bland, as if I would try to play as tribal or Muslim in base CK2, and rightfully gets criticized for that.
Negative reception is overblown in my opinion, but it is not an enthusiastic start either. I do have hopes for the game, mainly because the team does put effort there... and because I like the game's map.