OOB - how to organize my army?

[JiM_cz]

Thanks for your answers, really usefull. However, I ment my question a little differently. If I have 20 divs in a province and I'll order 3 of them the to attack and I'll leave the rest of them idle. Will I suffer any stacking penalties? I mean, will the 17 divs count as a reserve?

Or is it so that it depends on how many adjacent provinces there are?

 

[womble]

That means that frontage and stacking limit is calculated per battle and attack vector and not by province , right?

It's per battle. The number of attack vectors determines the number of divisions that can be participating without penalty, and the frontage of the battle. You do not get anything separate per attack vector.

It's important to note that on defense all the divisions in the attacked province count as participating, whereas when you're attacking, only the ones that have been told to attack or support the attack do.

Thanks for your answers, really usefull. However, I ment my question a little differently. If I have 20 divs in a province and I'll order 3 of them the to attack and I'll leave the rest of them idle. Will I suffer any stacking penalties? I mean, will the 17 divs count as a reserve?

That was explained, but english isn't your first language so I'll have a go.

When you are attacking, only the units which you commit to a given attack count for anything. So if you have 20 units and you attack any number of provinces (1, 2, 3, 4 or 5) with 4 each, you'll suffer no attack penalties at all because of stacking.

Or is it so that it depends on how many adjacent provinces there are?

Adjacent provinces are irrelevant if you're not attacking from them. If you attack a province from 2 provinces (which have to be adjacent to the target, of course, but don't need to be adjacent to each other; one could even be a paratroop drop) the number of allowed divisions goes up from 4 to 7.

You're thinking about it too hard. Play the game and have a look at the combat progress pane to see the sorts of penalties you're suffering.

 

[braveheartm]

so, there can be only 1 battle/province but multiple attack vectors(that will influence the frontage and stacking limit). So both attacker and defender will be able to put the same number of units/frontage and will get/not get the same stacking penalty (based on attack vectors and div number) if number of divisions is equal, but the defender will be penalized from being attacked from multiple attack vectors, right?

Please let me know if I'm right on the battle scenario below (i'm not sure if defender will be penalized for defending behind a river, or in mountains or any kind of unfaborable terrain for a regular infantry unit):

1. attacker uses 2 attack vectors:
- 1st att vector: 4x divisions
- 2nd att vector: 4 x divisions
- battle summary: 15 battle frontage , 6 divisions on frontage, 2 div in reserve, stacking penalty = 10% (stacking limit exceeded by 1 division), frontage divisions will get other penalties due to terrain(ex: river, mountains) , night, weather, dig-in of the defender
2. defender defends against 2 attack vectors
- 8x divisions in province, defending against 2 attack vectors
- battle summary: 15 battle frontage , 6 divisions on frontage, 2 div in reserve, stacking penalty = 10% (stacking limit exceeded by 1 division), frontage divisions will get other penalties due to terrain (ex: river , mountains), weather, penalty from being attacked from multiple attack vectors

Concerning all the stacking penalties, to which stats are they applied? hard/soft attack, defense, toughness?

 

[KipAllen]

Can you give me a link to Vowards Panzer mod? What's improved over DIG? Is it compatible with DIG 2.06 for FTM?

Do you guys know any graphical/sprite/interface improvement mods that are compatible with all mod's and vanilla FTM? Are there any tools that can help me with OOB and/or plan research (are they compatible with FTM 3.05, DIG 2.06 or other mods)?

The link for VWP is http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...for-Dies-Irae-quot-Vorw%E4rts-Panzers!/page44

It includes many more events. It includes a lot of Waffen SS units with accurate divisional insignia. VWP is no longer being developed, but most of it will be incorporated into the Realistic Unit Progression Mod, which is currently in progress. One down side is that VWP is not compatible with FTM. RPM is compatible with FTM.

As for some good graphical interfaces, check out anything by Francisco in the Other Mods and Projects section of HoI3-User Modifications.

 

[unmerged(405157)]

Good Question

I would love it if one of the moderators would set up a Sticky that contains a breakdown of the official DLC/Scenario/Expansions, charts out their features and compatibilities, and links to the downloads. I have been researching these, and have been looping through the forums. Everytime I find one that has what I would like (more units, events, and is compatible with Semper Fi), I see another link that has contradictory and confusing info.

 

[theokrat]

1. attacker uses 2 attack vectors:
- 1st att vector: 4x divisions
- 2nd att vector: 4 x divisions
- battle summary: 15 battle frontage , 6 divisions on frontage, 2 div in reserve, stacking penalty = 10% (stacking limit exceeded by 1 division), frontage divisions will get other penalties due to terrain(ex: river, mountains) , night, weather, dig-in of the defender
2. defender defends against 2 attack vectors
- 8x divisions in province, defending against 2 attack vectors
- battle summary: 15 battle frontage , 6 divisions on frontage, 2 div in reserve, stacking penalty = 10% (stacking limit exceeded by 1 division), frontage divisions will get other penalties due to terrain (ex: river , mountains), weather, penalty from being attacked from multiple attack vectors

Concerning all the stacking penalties, to which stats are they applied? hard/soft attack, defense, toughness?

Yes, although defenders will also be affected by night modifiers, while defender terrain penalties are rare.

Also both parties will also affected by leaders, in particular the stacking penalty might be affected by the theater commander's skill level.

Note that in your example the attacker would be better of by attacking with one or even two units less. The same number of divisions could attack the enemy, but no stacking penalty would apply. No units would be indicated as "reserve" for the battle - but if one of the actually fighting units would have to break of the attack it could easily be replaced by one of the initially omitted divisions joining the fight at that point in time.

I really wished the stacking penalty would only be based to the units actually engaged in combat and not on reserve units. That would fix such nonsensical encouragement of micromanagement, while still penalizing extreme schemes such as 1INF+4ART divisions.

EDIT: IIRC stacking applies to both attack and defense/toughness stats, but you can check by hovering the mouse over the divisions in the battle screen.

 

[braveheartm]

Great, I understand the battle mechanics now, therefore I can continue my analysis on penalty values, modifiers and unit stats, make experiments on unit vs unit battle, but I will do this in the game as I think it's the best way to learn it .

What about some tools? For example, a usefull tool for me, would be one that would allow me to compare battle scenarios (2xLA +1Mot +1 SA against 3 x Marines + 1 AT in a river crossing, night conditions) ... so the tool should let me setup my divisions, alter their stats, modifers and penalties against an enemy with a different division composition and stats+modifiers+penalties so I can check the how efficient is a unit against the other, in different conditions. Do you know such a tool? What about an OOB organizer?

 

[braveheartm]

I found 2 tools that sound interesting:
1. Army Restructuring Tool (OOB designer)
http://art.abross.de/FAQ.php
Notes: compatible with Vanilla, Semper FI and FTM. Don't know if does work with DIG or other mods
2. Division Designer
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...ion-Design&p=12056907&viewfull=1#post12056907
Notes: probably outdated. Download link doesn't work. Maybe someone will want to continue this project and bring it up to date with FTM 3.05 and maybe DIG. I also posted some improvement ideea that could ease the effort when new patch is released.

Did you use them? What's your opinion on these tools?

 

[ar73]

I found 2 tools that sound interesting:
1. Army Restructuring Tool (OOB designer)
http://art.abross.de/FAQ.php
Notes: compatible with Vanilla, Semper FI and FTM. Don't know if does work with DIG or other mods

Short answer: It does.

Slightly longer answer: It did always for mods that overwrite core files. The beta versions from the 1.1 branch are also able to handle mods that go into the mod folder (e.g. DIG).

 

[Pugmak]

ART (Army Restructuring Tool) is an amazing piece of work. It does a lot more than simply assist in OOB construction/management.

As to division construction, there's lots and many threads debating this. Try searching the site. Also, keep in mind that one of the peculiarities of this particular forum is that threads tend to wander a bit onto side or associated topics. You can learn a lot from the occasional diversion from the OP. For starters, as you're in learning mode, I suggest keeping it real simple and not get too bogged down in division structures. For the AI, it's not necessary to min/max your divisions. That's something you'll want to get a good grip on for multiplayer though. But that can wait while you learn everything else.

Also, check out youtube. There's a lot of "Lets Play" type vids on HOI3 and its expansions. sometimes, seeing it done is better than reading it.

 

[Pugmak]

Can you give me a link to Vowards Panzer mod? What's improved over DIG? Is it compatible with DIG 2.06 for FTM?

Do you guys know any graphical/sprite/interface improvement mods that are compatible with all mod's and vanilla FTM? Are there any tools that can help me with OOB and/or plan research (are they compatible with FTM 3.05, DIG 2.06 or other mods)?

For graphical enhancements, I suggest:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?549028-MOD-Francesco-s-Counters-Mod and his Models Mod that's linked at the top of that page.

Sprites are created by former modders turned pro and sold as DLC. If you like using sprites, the DLC are nice haves.

 

[Pro_Consul]

You already have the best instructional and diagnostic tool there is: this forum. So don't hesitate to use it when you run into questions or problems that stump you.

On a little side note from an earlier remark: Jim_cz asked about using only 3 divs in an attack from a province that had 20 divs in it. It was a good question and the answer was correct, but two considerations that often get overlooked can cause problems. This comes up frequently for newer folks playing Germany when invading the Low Countries and France, and even some veterans. Knowing that the game only calculates stacking penalties per vector when on attack, they pile 20 divs per province into the AO. And then they wonder why their advance suddenly bogs down, and why they even get forced to retreat from time to time despite having what appears to be superior force. Here are the reasons:

1. They are forgetting that having 20 divs in a single prov can result in a HUGE stacking penalty if the enemy attacks that province from only one or two vectors. Just because you are on the "attack" along the front does not mean all your troops are attacking 100% of the time, nor does it prohibit the enemy from attacking you right back.

2. They are neglecting the effect on supply of packing that many divisions into recently captured provinces that are still suffering from damaged infrastructure. This one usually isn't anywhere near as big a deal as #1 and often never crops up, but it can definitely cause issues from time to time, especially if the supply situation was already strained prior to the offensive. So you should try to keep it in mind. The most likely first symptom that you are messing up in this area is when units suddenly start intermittently showing themselves out of supplies and/or fuel, i.e. their out of supply or out of fuel warning icon keeps popping on at some point during the day and then back off every night at midnight.

For these two reasons it is a generally good practice to only allow active combatants on the front line. Exploitation forces and reserves should be kept at least one province behind the front, just to be sure they don't cause either of these problems.