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Muelleri

First Lieutenant
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Apr 4, 2015
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Devs are giving attention to Korea and North east asia for 1.33, so i suggest to add very simple country name change event for Korea when it holds mandate like Dai Viet.


(Title & description is same with flavor_dai.4)
Event Title:
The Mandate of Heaven

Description:
The Mandate of Heaven is ours, taken from the unworthy and tyrannical Ming. We must name the new state that will rule over China for a thousand years.


Is trigger only by: completing the mission "Tame the Dragon"


Option:

1. Daehan(大韓)

2. Goguryeo(高句麗)

3. Remain as Korea(Joseon)


Effects after selecting any option
If Korea is the Emperor of China:
- then Korea gains 30 mandate.
Else, Korea gains 50 prestige.
(Same reward as Dai Viet one)



Reason for suggestion:
Dai Viet has name change event when they complete ‘Claim the mandate’ misssion, so Korea deserves same kind of event when it becomes Emperor. Actually it makes sense to choose new name when new country become chinese emperor because in history chinese empires used single word name (Ming明,Qing靑,Yuan元 etc…) because they think chinese empire is the greasteat nation so it has to use single word nation name. I want to add more description to this event but devs already said about translation time issue, so i suggest to use same title & description of Dai viet’s ‘The Mandate of Heaven’ event and makes different for only options. Then we don’t have to worry about transalation issue.

Suggestion description:
If name of Korea in eu4 changes into Joseon and it has fixed dynasty from confucian bureaucracy then it will makes more sense to choose new name because english name ‘Korea’ can be applied to Daehan and Joseon too. Korean empire & South Korea use Daehan as official name and North Korea use Joseon as official name but worlds call them as Korea anyway, although choosing name was important matter for Korean. But it’s game where kingdom of god can be formed. So why not? Let’s just give choices to new Korean empire for immersive play.

Option1: Daehan(大韓) - It means Great Han(韓). 韓 means people and nation lives in Korean peninsula and have Korean identity. Joseon kingdom chose Daehan as official name when it proclaimed empror(1897). Also current South Korean offical name is Daehan too. (AI choose this 100% because it was historical decision.)

Option 2: Goguryeo(高句麗 ) - Ancient korean kingdom name. Goguryeo ruled Manchuria and northern part of Korea. It was the one of the biggest kingdoms of korea in history, so many Korean loves Goguryeo and its name represents korean ambition for manchuria and china region. Because of this, there is ‘Restore Goguryeo’ mission for Korea too. I don’t think historical Joseon will choose this name in this situation because they overthrown Goryeo and so they will not use its name again but it’s game and Korean loves it. So why not?(It seems Goguryeo’s successor state Balhae was bigger than Goguryeo although its territory is not certain. Korean loves Goguryeo more so i choose Goguryeo as name)

Option 3: remain as Korea. In EU4 devs use Korea as name for Joseon kingdom. If devs use Joseon as name and give fixed dynasty to confucian bureaucracy it will be more perfect and makes sense. But I know devs will not make this decision so remain as Korea means just staying as Joseon as name.(Currently Korean translation mod translates Korea as Joseon.)

*Name ‘Korea’ was originated from Goguryeo. Korean medieval kingdom Goryeo chose its name because it proclaimed succession from Goguryeo.(Goguryeo used Goryeo as name too). Foreigners call Goryeo as Korea so ‘Korea’ became represtative name for Korean nation and people. Goryeo was collapsed by Joseon so Joseon doesn’t like to be called as Korea but European kept calling Joseon as Korea anyway. This situation has been solidified until now, so South and North Korea doesn’t have ‘Goryeo’ in official korean name but they are called as Korea now.
 
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I have to admit: I like this idea a lot. However, localization is the one thing which is the bottleneck for content, so it probably won't make the cut into 1.33 anymore.
However, I will bookmark this for a later patch.
No promises though.
 
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I have to admit: I like this idea a lot. However, localization is the one thing which is the bottleneck for content, so it probably won't make the cut into 1.33 anymore.
However, I will bookmark this for a later patch.
No promises though.
Thank you for answer!
I hoped just using same event of flavor_dai.4 but different options for Korea then it will not make big localization issue. But I don’t know about game developing so I understand your decision. I wish we can see Daehan empire in future ;)
 
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I have to admit: I like this idea a lot. However, localization is the one thing which is the bottleneck for content, so it probably won't make the cut into 1.33 anymore.
However, I will bookmark this for a later patch.
No promises though.
Sorry, my English is not very good.

The name of China's dynasties is not decided casually.
Some dynasties are named after the founders' fiefs or title,some dynasties are named after complex religious theories, such as Yuan, Ming and Qing Dynasties.


But the Yuan and Qing Dynasties were more special,the dynasty name has the dual meaning of Manchu / Mongolian and Chinese.
Ming Dynasty, or Daming,the reason for its name is the same as that of the Yuan Dynasty, which is based on The Book of Changes(I Ching,Yi Jing,易经).


Therefore, since the Yuan Dynasty,single word is no longer used as the name of the dynasty.However,”Da”(大)is an auxiliary word that can be omitted.

The naming rules are so complicated that my poor English can't fully explain I won't explain restriction among five elements for the time being.

Muelleri's problem is naming does not conform to the rules.If you become Emperor of China,the naming of dynasty must consider historical factors.The Manchus changed the former Jin(金/后金Later Jin)into the Qing ,because there was a deep conflict between the Jin Dynasty and the Song Dynasty.

So,Goguryo is definitely not a good choice,this kingdom did not stop conflict from the Three Kingdoms period to the Tang Dynasty.
If you want to be the emperor of China, you must abandon the unwelcome burden of history.
 
Sorry, my English is not very good.

The name of China's dynasties is not decided casually.
Some dynasties are named after the founders' fiefs or title,some dynasties are named after complex religious theories, such as Yuan, Ming and Qing Dynasties.


But the Yuan and Qing Dynasties were more special,the dynasty name has the dual meaning of Manchu / Mongolian and Chinese.
Ming Dynasty, or Daming,the reason for its name is the same as that of the Yuan Dynasty, which is based on The Book of Changes(I Ching,Yi Jing,易经).


Therefore, since the Yuan Dynasty,single word is no longer used as the name of the dynasty.However,”Da”(大)is an auxiliary word that can be omitted.

The naming rules are so complicated that my poor English can't fully explain I won't explain restriction among five elements for the time being.

Muelleri's problem is naming does not conform to the rules.If you become Emperor of China,the naming of dynasty must consider historical factors.The Manchus changed the former Jin(金/后金Later Jin)into the Qing ,because there was a deep conflict between the Jin Dynasty and the Song Dynasty.

So,Goguryo is definitely not a good choice,this kingdom did not stop conflict from the Three Kingdoms period to the Tang Dynasty.
If you want to be the emperor of China, you must abandon the unwelcome burden of history.
Thank you for answer! I know Goguryeo is not a suitable choice for new emperor if Joseon become Emperor.

Because 1st: New emperor doesn't choose already existed name of previous empires. 2nd: Because Joseon overthrown Goryeo, they will not want to accept the name of Goguryeo.(Joseon doesn’t like to be called as Korea!)

But reason of my choice(Goguryeo) is just for fun. Many Korean likes it so I just added it as choice. (There is many meme or just fun name and titles in EU4 already. Look at Brewingmaster!) So I suggested AI to choose Daehan as 100% choice. Because it was historical. Goguryeo is just an option for players.

Actually there is record about choosing new empire's title in <Veritable Records of Gojong Volume 36, 11 October>!
King(Gojong) and other ministers discussed about what to choose as new empire's name. They chose 'Daehan' as national title of new empire.
If Devs gonna put this event in far future patch, using this record as descriptive will be more immersive.

King(Gojong,고종,高宗) said,

"There is something I want to decide after discussing with the ministers. Now that affairs of state have been renewed and all the rituals have been renewed, so from now on, when the first ancestral rites at Wongudan(원구단,圜丘壇) is held, the national title should be decided and used appropriately. What are the opinions of the ministers?"

Minister Shim Soon-taek(심순택,沈舜澤) said,

"Our country used the name Joseon(조선,朝鮮), which was a title of Giza(기자,箕子) in the past when he was appointed*, as it was, it was not reasonable in the first place. The country is old now, but the mandate of heaven have been renewed, so we have to set a national title, but complying with the rules."
(*During the Goryeo and Joseon Dynasty, the existance of Giza Joseon was recognized, but recently, most modern Korean historians denied its existance.)

Minister Jo Byeong-sae(조병세,趙秉世) said,

"Since mandate of heaven have been renewed and all kinds of systems have been renewed, the national title will also have to be newly decided. From now on, endless home for millions of years depends on this decision."

King said,

"Our country is the land of Three Han(삼한,三韓), which was united into one country after receiving mandate at the begining of the country. There is nothing impossible about deciding the national title as 'Daehan(대한,大韓)' now. In addition, every time I looked at the letter of each country, it was not called Joseon, but Han(韓). This is probably a sign in advance and waiting for today, so even if it is not announced to the world, everyone in the world knows the title of "Daehan.""

Shim Soon-taek said,

"Since the Three Dynasties*, national title has not yet followed the old ones. However, Joseon was the title of the Giza when he was appointed in the past, so it is not right to use this title for the proud emperor country. Also, the title "Daehan" was not a title of countries that succeeded the emperor's lineage so it doesen't follow the old titles. The order of Your Majesty is very reasonable, so I don't dare to add anything."
(*Three Dynasties of Xia(夏), Yin(殷), Zhou(周))

Jo Byeong-sae said,

"What people in each country call Joseon as Han is that the auspicious signs sprouted from a long time ago and waited for today when mandate of heaven is renewed. Also, it is not a coincidence because the radical(Chinese characters) of the letter 'Han(韓)' strangely fits the radical of the letter 'Jo(朝)'. This is a sign that it will open the peaceful era for 10,000 years. I can't help but worship and praise."

King said,

"Since the national title has already been decided, write it as 'Daehan' in both the Banjomun(頒詔文) and the funeral oration of the ancestral rites(告由祭) which will be held in the Wongudan(원구단,圜丘壇)."

上曰: "欲與卿等有所議定者矣。 今於一初之政, 百禮俱新, 自今肇禋圜丘之時, 宜用定有天下之號也。 大臣之意何如?" 舜澤曰: "國家, 因箕子舊封朝鮮之名, 仍以爲號, 未始爲切當。 今於邦舊命新之日, 定有天下之號, 應合典則矣。" 秉世曰: "天命維新, 百度皆新, 有天下之號, 亦宜新定。 自今伊始, 萬億年卜世祈永之本, 實在於此矣。" 上曰: "我邦乃三韓之地, 而國初受命, 統合爲一。 今定有天下之號曰‘大韓’, 未爲不可。 且每嘗見各國文字, 不曰‘朝鮮’, 而曰韓者, 抑有符驗於前, 而有竢於今日, 無待聲明於天下, 而天下皆知大韓之號矣。" 舜澤曰: "自三代以來, 有天下之號, 未有承襲于前者矣。 而朝鮮乃箕子舊封之號也, 堂堂帝國, 不宜因仍其號矣。 且大韓之號, 稽之帝統之國, 無襲舊者矣。 聖旨切當, 無敢贊辭矣。" 秉世曰: "各國人之以朝鮮稱韓者, 其祥已兆於平昔, 而政待天命維新之日矣。 且韓字扁旁, 因朝字扁旁, 亦奇合而不偶矣。 此萬世開太平之應也。 臣不勝欽仰攢頌矣。" 上曰: "有天下之號旣定, 圜丘壇告由祭文及頒詔文。 竝以大韓, 書之可也。"
 
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Thank you for answer! I know Goguryeo is not a suitable choice for new emperor if Joseon become Emperor.

Because 1st: New emperor doesn't choose already existed name of previous empires. 2nd: Because Joseon overthrown Goryeo, they will not want to accept the name of Goguryeo.(Joseon doesn’t like to be called as Korea!)

But reason of my choice(Goguryeo) is just for fun. Many Korean likes it so I just added it as choice. (There is many meme or just fun name and and titles in EU4 already. Look at Brewingmaster!) So I suggested AI to choose Daehan as 100% choice. Because it was historical. Goguryeo is just a option for players.

Actually there is record about choosing new empire's title in <Veritable Records of Gojong Volume 36, 11 October>!
King(Gojong) and other ministers discussed about what to choose as new empire's name. They chose 'Daehan' as national title of new empire.
If Devs gonna put this event in far future patch, using this record as descriptive will be more immersive.

King(Gojong,고종,高宗) said,

"There is something I want to decide after discussing with the ministers. Now that affairs of state have been renewed and all the rituals have been renewed, so from now on, when the first ancestral rites at Wongudan(원구단,圜丘壇) is held, the national title should be decided and used appropriately. What are the opinions of the ministers?"

Minister Shim Soon-taek(심순택,沈舜澤) said,

"Our country used the name Joseon(조선,朝鮮), which was a title of Giza(기자,箕子) in the past when he was appointed*, as it was, it was not reasonable in the first place. The country is old now, but the mandate of heaven have been renewed, so we have to set a national title, but complying with the rules."
(*During the Goryeo and Joseon Dynasty, the existance of Giza Joseon was recognized, but recently, most modern Korean historians denied its existance.)

Minister Jo Byeong-sae(조병세,趙秉世) said,

"Since mandate of heaven have been renewed and all kinds of systems have been renewed, the national title will also have to be newly decided. From now on, endless home for millions of years depends on this decision."

King said,

"Our country is the land of Three han(삼한,三韓), which was united into one country after receiving mandate at the begining of the country. There is nothing impossible about deciding the national title as 'Daehan(대한,大韓)' now. In addition, every time I looked at the letter of each country, it was not called Joseon, but Han(韓). This is probably a sign in advance and waiting for today, so even if it is not announced to the world, everyone in the world knows the title of "Daehan.""

Shim Soon-taek said,

"Since the Three Dynasties*, national title has not yet followed the old ones. However, Joseon was the title of the Giza when he was appointed in the past, so it is not right to use this title for the proud emperor country. Also, the title "Daehan" was not a title of countries that succeeded the emperor's lineage so it doesen't follow the old titles. The order of Your Majesty is very reasonable, so I don't dare to add anything."
(*Three Dynasties of Xia(夏), Yin(殷), Zhou(周))

Jo Byeong-sae said,

"What people in each country call Joseon as Han is that the auspicious signs sprouted from a long time ago and waited for today when mandate of heaven is renewed. Also, it is not a coincidence because the radical(Chinese characters) of the letter 'Han(韓)' strangely fits the radical of the letter 'Jo(朝)'. This is a sign that it will open the peaceful era for 10,000 years. I can't help but worship and praise."

King said,

"Since the national title has already been decided, write it as 'Daehan' in both the Banjomun(頒詔文) and the funeral oration of the ancestral rites(告由祭) which will be held in the Wongudan(원구단,圜丘壇)."

上曰: "欲與卿等有所議定者矣。 今於一初之政, 百禮俱新, 自今肇禋圜丘之時, 宜用定有天下之號也。 大臣之意何如?" 舜澤曰: "國家, 因箕子舊封朝鮮之名, 仍以爲號, 未始爲切當。 今於邦舊命新之日, 定有天下之號, 應合典則矣。" 秉世曰: "天命維新, 百度皆新, 有天下之號, 亦宜新定。 自今伊始, 萬億年卜世祈永之本, 實在於此矣。" 上曰: "我邦乃三韓之地, 而國初受命, 統合爲一。 今定有天下之號曰‘大韓’, 未爲不可。 且每嘗見各國文字, 不曰‘朝鮮’, 而曰韓者, 抑有符驗於前, 而有竢於今日, 無待聲明於天下, 而天下皆知大韓之號矣。" 舜澤曰: "自三代以來, 有天下之號, 未有承襲于前者矣。 而朝鮮乃箕子舊封之號也, 堂堂帝國, 不宜因仍其號矣。 且大韓之號, 稽之帝統之國, 無襲舊者矣。 聖旨切當, 無敢贊辭矣。" 秉世曰: "各國人之以朝鮮稱韓者, 其祥已兆於平昔, 而政待天命維新之日矣。 且韓字扁旁, 因朝字扁旁, 亦奇合而不偶矣。 此萬世開太平之應也。 臣不勝欽仰攢頌矣。" 上曰: "有天下之號旣定, 圜丘壇告由祭文及頒詔文。 竝以大韓, 書之可也。"

I think another better than Goguryeo's choose is Jin state 진국/Chen(辰國),a historical country with more complete inheritance context.
When Kim Il Sung established the country's name, someone once proposed "동진/Dongjin/东辰(震)/Dong Chen" as an option, but he finally chose "Chosŏn".
 
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