As Designed Netherlands tier 3 reform "seven provinces" does not give the intened 15% manpower in same culture provinces

[bergensern]

Integrity​

I have verified my game files (on Steam)​

Yes

I have disabled all mods​

Yes

Required​

Summary​

Netherlands tier 3 reform "seven provinces" does not give the intened 15% manpower in same culture provinces

Description​

pretty strait forward. The reform says it will grant you 15% manpower in same culture group provinces, but it does not give you any manpower

Steps to reproduce​

Take the reform > look at amsterdam manpower modifiers

Game Version​

1.37

OS​

Windows

Additional​

Bug Type​

Attachments​

Screenshot​

 

[grotaclas]

Does Amsterdam have a culture which is in your culture group, but which is neither an accepted culture nor your primary culture? The modifier "Manpower in same Culture Group provinces" does not give manpower in provinces which are accepted or which are your primary culture. There are other modifiers for that.
The manpower in unaccepted same culture group provinces is working correctly:

Though one could argue that the reform could also give "Manpower in Accepted Culture provinces"(manpower_in_accepted_culture_provinces) and "Manpower in Primary Culture provinces"(manpower_in_own_culture_provinces).

 

[bergensern]

Does Amsterdam have a culture which is in your culture group, but which is neither an accepted culture nor your primary culture? The modifier "Manpower in same Culture Group provinces" does not give manpower in provinces which are accepted or which are your primary culture. There are other modifiers for that.
The manpower in unaccepted same culture group provinces is working correctly:
View attachment 1131720

Though one could argue that the reform could also give "Manpower in Accepted Culture provinces"(manpower_in_accepted_culture_provinces) and "Manpower in Primary Culture provinces"(manpower_in_own_culture_provinces).

Does Amsterdam have a culture which is in your culture group, but which is neither an accepted culture nor your primary culture? The modifier "Manpower in same Culture Group provinces" does not give manpower in provinces which are accepted or which are your primary culture. There are other modifiers for that.
The manpower in unaccepted same culture group provinces is working correctly:
View attachment 1131720

Though one could argue that the reform could also give "Manpower in Accepted Culture provinces"(manpower_in_accepted_culture_provinces) and "Manpower in Primary Culture provinces"(manpower_in_own_culture_provinces).

Seems like it's only giving the manpower in provinces with same culture groups where you haven't accepeted the culture, making it a very usless modifier seeing as you will want to accept all your other cultures in the dutch region.
I looked at it, and when you become empire there is no way to get the 15% manpower at all becasue all your cultures in the german region becomes accpeted

 

[grotaclas]

Seems like it's only giving the manpower in provinces with same culture groups where you haven't accepeted the culture

Yes, that's what I have been trying to say.

making it a very usless modifier seeing as you will want to accept all your other cultures in the dutch region.

Yes. Maybe it is meant as a small compensation for other german cultured provinces which you might own. There is less reason to accept them, because it offsets the -15% manpower in unaccepted culture provinces which are in your culture group.

I looked at it, and when you become empire there is no way to get the 15% manpower at all becasue all your cultures in the german region becomes accpeted

I don't think that the reform is meant for empires, because it encourages you to play tall

 

[bergensern]

Yes, that's what I have been trying to say.

Yes. Maybe it is meant as a small compensation for other german cultured provinces which you might own. There is less reason to accept them, because it offsets the -15% manpower in unaccepted culture provinces which are in your culture group.

I don't think that the reform is meant for empires, because it encourages you to play tall

maybe, but if you play tall you're also gonna be accepting all your dutch cultures. Meaning the bonus is useless

 

[grand_strategies51]

Hello there! The present is a design choice and not a bug. If you have any questions about it, don't hesitate to ask about it on the main forum for the game.

 

[TooEnpou]

Does Amsterdam have a culture which is in your culture group, but which is neither an accepted culture nor your primary culture? The modifier "Manpower in same Culture Group provinces" does not give manpower in provinces which are accepted or which are your primary culture. There are other modifiers for that.
The manpower in unaccepted same culture group provinces is working correctly:
View attachment 1131720

Though one could argue that the reform could also give "Manpower in Accepted Culture provinces"(manpower_in_accepted_culture_provinces) and "Manpower in Primary Culture provinces"(manpower_in_own_culture_provinces).

This modifier is meaningless for netherland. If the player want to play small with just the provinces in netherland, he will definitely accept dutch and frisian and flemish culture, which means this modifier won't work. And if the player become emperor all the german culture will be auto accepted, this 15% manpower will also cause no effect.

 

[orania]

Could you please delete this useless reform or rework it. There will never be a scenario that a dutch player has an unaccepted same culture province in the lowlands. It goes against the whole idea of playing tall. Wasnt the mission set based on that idea?

 

[bergensern]

Hello there! The present is a design choice and not a bug. If you have any questions about it, don't hesitate to ask about it on the main forum for the game.

Yeah thats fine. I just think the modifier is very useless in almost every scenario, and it will confuse most players who see it. I have 4k hours in this game and it wasnt obvious to me what it did. I'd recomed swapping it to something else to be honest.

 

[grotaclas]

Could you please delete this useless reform or rework it. There will never be a scenario that a dutch player has an unaccepted same culture province in the lowlands. It goes against the whole idea of playing tall. Wasnt the mission set based on that idea?

Just because one modifier of the reform is useless doesn't make the whole reform useless

This modifier is meaningless for netherland. If the player want to play small with just the provinces in netherland, he will definitely accept dutch and frisian and flemish culture, which means this modifier won't work. And if the player become emperor all the german culture will be auto accepted, this 15% manpower will also cause no effect.

It would have an effect if the Netherlands own a few more german cultured provinces while not being an empire. But the effect is very small.

 

[bergensern]

Just because one modifier of the reform is useless doesn't make the whole reform useless


It would have an effect if the Netherlands own a few more german cultured provinces while not being an empire. But the effect is very small.

If you start taking proinvces outside lowlands the reforms quilcky becomes bad because of the +33% autonomy, manpower does little to help that