[MOD] Anno 1836 /Just Another Map Mod

[crownsteler]

Just Another Map Mod
-or-
My crusader against colonial borders​

I already posted some screenshots to Reddit, but I thought I start a thread here as well to show my progress and collect feedback. So there is that

What is this mod?
This mod is an overhaul of the game's map. Best to look at screen shots to see what it entails. Overall I'd slowly reworking the world to better fit my own peculiar vision of what the map should look like. Generally speaking this means I feel that borders should follow lines of actual control, and not some nebulous line drawn on a map. Overal that means a large number of borders have been redrawn better (though by no means perfectly) correspond to the reality on the ground. Another peculiarity is that I don't like to see the straight colonial era borders, so I worked hard to hide them until the colonial border.

Features

• A fully redrawn map of Africa north of the Congo river, the Middle East, Central Asia, Indonesia and North America
• An improved map of (Western) Europe
• An improved river and terrain map
• A reworked resource setup
• A handful of new cultures

Release
Soon.
The first release will be just the map. The goal is to get it out there, let people play with it, but mostly I hope people will use it in their own mods or add their own content for it.
I still need to quite a bit work, so don't expect it in the next few weeks.

Preview

The current state of the map rework. I could use some feedback on:
- What to do with Mandinka. It is currently a placeholder for decentralised Mande people, but I also want to incorporate the Wassalou Empire.
- What to do with what the Mossi/Wala/Kong/Adagh area.
- What I should do with Anyi and the region between the Ashanti and the European Gold Coast colonies (should I add the Fante (unrecognised) and other (decentralised) states?


Reworked the states in Western Europe.


From left to right: Dutch Delta/North Sea Coast, the Sudd, the Inner Niger Delta, the Coast of Guinea, Senegambia, Lake Chad and the Chari-Logone river

 

[za3tarani]

nice mod, really beatiful,

i remember somewhere that pdx devs said they want to stir away from eurocentric thinking (i might be wrong), yet most of africa has states based on colonial borders even before them being colonized. besides being eurocentric, game-wise it creates weird borders (like one state shared by up to 3 colonial powers, creating many split states).

i personally support merging useless desert states, but that is just me. if it was up to me, i'd want uncolonized (decentralized) areas being dynamic, ie a state is created after it being colonized (for instance efter colonizing some 10-15 provinces). this each run there would be new state borders based on how great powers colonize, plus it would create less split states (and in total less states in the game).

 

[Warillo]

Looks absolutely stunning, so far I've been getting my Africa fix from the Vic Flavour mod but this blows any of the existing flavour mods, (In regards to Africa and Arabia) completely out of the water, really hope you look at making some kingdoms in today's Congo centralised entities that can properly attempt to resist colonisation.

 

[crownsteler]

nice mod, really beatiful,

i remember somewhere that pdx devs said they want to stir away from eurocentric thinking (i might be wrong), yet most of africa has states based on colonial borders even before them being colonized. besides being eurocentric, game-wise it creates weird borders (like one state shared by up to 3 colonial powers, creating many split states).

i personally support merging useless desert states, but that is just me. if it was up to me, i'd want uncolonized (decentralized) areas being dynamic, ie a state is created after it being colonized (for instance efter colonizing some 10-15 provinces). this each run there would be new state borders based on how great powers colonize, plus it would create less split states (and in total less states in the game).

Thanks

While I wont absolve myself of Eurocentrism completely (nor do I think it is bad perse), but I do try my best to create a fair representation within the limits of the engine.

It would be amazing if states were more dynamic! I do remember Wiz talking about wanting to implement something like it, so we can only hope. I do hope they will also add dynamic strategic regions at some point, as that would allow so many interesting diplomatic actions (like delineating spheres of influence)

Looks absolutely stunning, so far I've been getting my Africa fix from the Vic Flavour mod but this blows any of the existing flavour mods, (In regards to Africa and Arabia) completely out of the water, really hope you look at making some kingdoms in today's Congo centralised entities that can properly attempt to resist colonisation.

Thanks

I did toy around with the idea of working on the Congo, but I decided against it for now as. I need to fix up what I have right now so I can get a release out of the door. I've come to the conclusion that this project might be a bit ambitious for 1 person... Still, it is fun and educational

Here is a little something which I am unsure will make it into the first release (still WIP of course)

I am sure this pisses of a lot of people (due to inaccuracies), but I like it!

p.s. if somebody wants to help me set up some events for these native states, I would be much obliged, and who knows, it might make it into the first release after all

 

[shadowofneptune]

What is the

View attachment 956334

What is the purpose of the 'snakes' of US, Mexican, British land between the various decentralized states?

 

[crownsteler]

What is the

What is the purpose of the 'snakes' of US, Mexican, British land between the various decentralized states?

Those are the Oregon Trail, Santa Fe Trail and Old Spanish Trail. The Mormon Trail also exists (but it hidden), and I still need to set up the California Trail. The first purpose is to create connections to otherwise isolated area's (though with the way trade works, it might not be a bad idea to have those states be isolated).

The other purpose is to show development over time. Just to show that my plans might be a bit to ambitions for one person, I had hoped to create a sort of Oregon Trail minigame one had to complete to colonise Oregon in lieu of the Map the Western Frontier decision. The succes on the Oregon Trail could then be represented on the map with more of the Oregon Trail being made part of the US. And when the Oregon Trail was completed, it would flood Oregon with US settlers. Britian would have something similar with the York Express. And thus there could be a race between the two for Oregon.

But like I said, I might perhaps be a bit too ambitious at this moment. Lets first finish the map.

So, about the map: I have taken a butchers knife to Canada....

 

[Warillo]

How's the map of North America look like by the time everything's colonised?

 

[ToonSiuuu]

There are a few area's on the map I identified where I could merge states, but that would remove the colonial area borders from the map. So I am unsure what to do here. Suggestions?​

View attachment 955702
Merge:
Inner Mauritania and El Djouf
Libyan desert and Egyptian desert
Add a desert state between Jordan, Syria and Iraq
Merge the 3 desert states (currently split states) of Sudan into one?

The map looks amazing!!

I would suggest not merging those states to make colonial areas still possible (after colonization). That way, you give the player the choice of either colonizing the whole region, or specific states for role-playing reasons.

Thank you for your work. I will follow this project.

 

[MansaYusef789]

Just Another Map Mod
-or-
My crusader against colonial borders​

I already posted some screenshots to Reddit, but I thought I start a thread here as well to show my progress and collect feedback. So there is that

What is this mod?
This mod is an overhaul of the game's map. Best to look at screen shots to see what it entails. Overall I'd slowly reworking the world to better fit my own peculiar vision of what the map should look like. Generally speaking this means I feel that borders should follow lines of actual control, and not some nebulous line drawn on a map. Overal that means a large number of borders have been redrawn better (though by no means perfectly) correspond to the reality on the ground. Another peculiarity is that I don't like to see the straight colonial era borders, so I worked hard to hide them until the colonial border.

Features

• A fully redrawn map of Africa north of the Congo river, the Middle East, Central Asia, Indonesia and North America
• An improved map of (Western) Europe
• An improved river and terrain map
• A reworked resource setup
• A handful of new cultures

Release
Soon.
The first release will be just the map. The goal is to get it out there, let people play with it, but mostly I hope people will use it in their own mods or add their own content for it.
I still need to quite a bit work, so don't expect it in the next few weeks.

Preview
View attachment 955700View attachment 955692View attachment 958791
The current state of the map rework. I could use some feedback on:
- What to do with Mandinka. It is currently a placeholder for decentralised Mande people, but I also want to incorporate the Wassalou Empire.
- What to do with what the Mossi/Wala/Kong/Adagh area.
- What I should do with Anyi and the region between the Ashanti and the European Gold Coast colonies (should I add the Fante (unrecognised) and other (decentralised) states?

View attachment 955694
Reworked the states in Western Europe.

View attachment 955693View attachment 955699View attachment 955696View attachment 955695View attachment 955697View attachment 955698
From left to right: Dutch Delta/North Sea Coast, the Sudd, the Inner Niger Delta, the Coast of Guinea, Senegambia, Lake Chad and the Chari-Logone river

There are a few area's on the map I identified where I could merge states, but that would remove the colonial area borders from the map. So I am unsure what to do here. Suggestions?
View attachment 955702
Merge:
Inner Mauritania and El Djouf
Libyan desert and Egyptian desert
Add a desert state between Jordan, Syria and Iraq
Merge the 3 desert states (currently split states) of Sudan into one?

I like what you've done so far, we definitely needed this. Do you plan on adding more flavor African countries as well? So far the political situation is mostly inaccurate and we have nations with international trade like Sokoto listed as Isolationist, or Sokoto's ahistorical low population? Sudan should stay split, it covers a large amount of land and should be hard to incorporate and conquer. It also better reflects the ethnic composition. As for Mandinka, that area was largley decentralized during that time, but unless it is possible to add an event where it centralizes like historically with Wassulu it is hard to say what to do. You could make a Wassulu state in the heartland and leave the rest decentralized. It also depends on if African centralized states can expand into their decentralized neighbors as happened historically. I don't know if that is in the scope of the mod you're trying to do. Regardless the borders you have set are already refreshing from a game that almost completely neglected the main object of European imperial desires during the 19th century and it's people.

 

[crownsteler]

How's the map of North America look like by the time everything's colonised?

It should look like the regular map. The state borders are all left intact, and since you colonise by state, it should give an OTL result.
Natural, if others start colonising these states, that would change the borders. But right now Canada, Mexico and the US have claims on their respective territories, so nobody else should be able to colonise them.
I still need to set up some content to the Mexican-American war so that it removes the Mexican claims to the territories the US captures in the war.

The map looks amazing!!

I would suggest not merging those states to make colonial areas still possible (after colonization). That way, you give the player the choice of either colonizing the whole region, or specific states for role-playing reasons.

Thank you for your work. I will follow this project.

Thanks!

The solution I am toying with now is to release two versions: one with the OTL borders, and a patch for more "immersive" borders.

I like what you've done so far, we definitely needed this. Do you plan on adding more flavor African countries as well? So far the political situation is mostly inaccurate and we have nations with international trade like Sokoto listed as Isolationist, or Sokoto's ahistorical low population? Sudan should stay split, it covers a large amount of land and should be hard to incorporate and conquer. It also better reflects the ethnic composition. As for Mandinka, that area was largley decentralized during that time, but unless it is possible to add an event where it centralizes like historically with Wassulu it is hard to say what to do. You could make a Wassulu state in the heartland and leave the rest decentralized. It also depends on if African centralized states can expand into their decentralized neighbors as happened historically. I don't know if that is in the scope of the mod you're trying to do. Regardless the borders you have set are already refreshing from a game that almost completely neglected the main object of European imperial desires during the 19th century and it's people.

Thanks!

I do hope to add more flavour around the map, but right now finishing the map is my priority. I'm noticing I am getting a bit burned out on doing it, so finishing up what I have already is my priority. But anything which is approximately historically and easy to implement (and fits the engine) I am willing to consider.

Changing (and researching!) such things takes a bit of time. It would save me quite some effort if you could sent your suggestions to me (by PM, or post them here). What would you feel would be a good law setup for Sokoto? And what would you feel would be a good population setup for Sokoto? And how would you setup the Sudanese states?

For Madinka/Wassoulou I could either split the Mandinka tag into a Mandinka/Wassoulou tag and a Mande tag, or script an emerging Wassoulou tag which gets a boost to colonisation points. I am unsure what the best option would be.

Just a 'small' update since I've been a bit quite:

North America is pretty much finished for now. Just need to fix up the positioning of some hubs.

And inspired by the Victorian Flavour Mod I also finished up Algeria:

(I copied the TAGs to ensure consistency and allow for easier compatibilty between mods, but everything else is my own work)

And something I am experimenting with to make North America a bit more interesting to play around with, and deal with the silk issue:

It requires quite a bit more work, but still. I choose to make them produce silk as silk and furs fulfill the same role in game, and this saves on adding a good (and thus saves on calculation overhead).

 

[Warillo]

For the law setup of Sokoto, maybe they can be moderately reformed (for game start) reflecting the ideology of Fodio. A Theocratic government, religious schools, charity hospitals, legacy slavery, and appointed bureaucrats, potentially even agrarian economy?

 

[Warillo]

While I can't comment on Sokoto's pops, would you be able to give a scripted Wassoulou Empire claims over those northern states in Mandinka? So it doesn't get absorbed into a European colony before it spawns.

 

[MansaYusef789]

It should look like the regular map. The state borders are all left intact, and since you colonise by state, it should give an OTL result.
Natural, if others start colonising these states, that would change the borders. But right now Canada, Mexico and the US have claims on their respective territories, so nobody else should be able to colonise them.
I still need to set up some content to the Mexican-American war so that it removes the Mexican claims to the territories the US captures in the war.



Thanks!

The solution I am toying with now is to release two versions: one with the OTL borders, and a patch for more "immersive" borders.



Thanks!

I do hope to add more flavour around the map, but right now finishing the map is my priority. I'm noticing I am getting a bit burned out on doing it, so finishing up what I have already is my priority. But anything which is approximately historically and easy to implement (and fits the engine) I am willing to consider.

Changing (and researching!) such things takes a bit of time. It would save me quite some effort if you could sent your suggestions to me (by PM, or post them here). What would you feel would be a good law setup for Sokoto? And what would you feel would be a good population setup for Sokoto? And how would you setup the Sudanese states?

For Madinka/Wassoulou I could either split the Mandinka tag into a Mandinka/Wassoulou tag and a Mande tag, or script an emerging Wassoulou tag which gets a boost to colonisation points. I am unsure what the best option would be.

Just a 'small' update since I've been a bit quite:
View attachment 966022View attachment 966023
North America is pretty much finished for now. Just need to fix up the positioning of some hubs.

And inspired by the Victorian Flavour Mod I also finished up Algeria:
View attachment 966021
(I copied the TAGs to ensure consistency and allow for easier compatibilty between mods, but everything else is my own work)

And something I am experimenting with to make North America a bit more interesting to play around with, and deal with the silk issue:
View attachment 966042
It requires quite a bit more work, but still. I choose to make them produce silk as silk and furs fulfill the same role in game, and this saves on adding a good (and thus saves on calculation overhead).

Well as an Afro-descended person I appreciate the work you're putting in. I can send you some suggestions for Sokoto, I think that what Warillo said is a good start for Sokoto laws. It's not possible to historically simulate the African system of slavery in this game without some kind of modding, but essentially slaves could earn wages and own small properties and had some legal rights, usually based on Islamic law and Hausa customs. Slaves could be officials so it would be hard simulate it, maybe Slave trade or Debt slavery. Also Sokoto was not an Isolationist country, they traded internationally, with the Europeans, through the Sahara and had diplomatic ties with Mecca, with Morocco, with every other Fulani Jihad state and with the non-muslim states and polities to the south They should have mercantilism or some other kind of restrictive trade law, that allowed for foreign trade, Sokoto's trade policy should not be in the same category as Edo period Japan. I wouldn't know how to best simulate the elected Sultan/Caliph policies, I don't know if VIc3 has something that could allow the monarch to be elected, but it should some day in the future. If you would like historical sources on the Caliphate I have some suggestions as well, in case you want to know where I get my info or want to fact check.

As for population the average estimates show that at it's height in 1837 there was estimated to be anywhere form 10 million to 20million people living as subjects of the Caliph or their emirs. I don't know where paradox got their information on the population of Sokoto from or just made up a number, but I have never seen it listed so low by any sources, even wikipedia.

I also agree with Warillo on Wassoulu, I think that's the best option.

I had another question about the map, Africa's size is considerably smaller proportionate to real life, are you planning on making it bigger? I understand the reasons why not, just wondering if that's in you radar for this map mod. Thanks again!

 

[crownsteler]

Thanks for the feedback.

This is the law setup for Sokoto right now, thoughts?

I found that current law system doesn't really reflect the suggestions you gave. But reworking the laws is very much beyond the scope of the this mod, so it will have to do unfortunately.

As for the population of Sokoto. I don't feel the population number of 10-20 million. That would make it one of the most populous states in the game, about as populous as Korea, the US or Indonesia. While Wikipedia also mentions a population of ~20 million for the whole of Nigeria in 1900.
The current population of Sokoto is about 4 million in game. I could push it up to 5-6 million, which would give the whole of Nigeria a population of around 12 million. I feel that is more reasonable than giving Sokoto alone a population of 12 million. Thoughts?

Expanding the size of Africa is beyond the scope of this mod. It would be great to do (as the heightmap is shifted vis-a-vis the province and river map, and I would love to see that be fixed), but it is too much work to attempted: It would basicly mean rebuilding not just Africa, but the whole world. And I am not even sure the engine could handel it. Besides, I find Africa to be too empty right now as it as (having to few features to give a sense of place), enlarging Africa on the map would only make it worse.

Something I spend way too much time on to make it look good, but still... I think it looks good:

The strategic regions of North Africa

 

[MansaYusef789]

Thanks for the feedback.

This is the law setup for Sokoto right now, thoughts?
View attachment 967733
I found that current law system doesn't really reflect the suggestions you gave. But reworking the laws is very much beyond the scope of the this mod, so it will have to do unfortunately.

As for the population of Sokoto. I don't feel the population number of 10-20 million. That would make it one of the most populous states in the game, about as populous as Korea, the US or Indonesia. While Wikipedia also mentions a population of ~20 million for the whole of Nigeria in 1900.
The current population of Sokoto is about 4 million in game. I could push it up to 5-6 million, which would give the whole of Nigeria a population of around 12 million. I feel that is more reasonable than giving Sokoto alone a population of 12 million. Thoughts?

Expanding the size of Africa is beyond the scope of this mod. It would be great to do (as the heightmap is shifted vis-a-vis the province and river map, and I would love to see that be fixed), but it is too much work to attempted: It would basicly mean rebuilding not just Africa, but the whole world. And I am not even sure the engine could handel it. Besides, I find Africa to be too empty right now as it as (having to few features to give a sense of place), enlarging Africa on the map would only make it worse.

Something I spend way too much time on to make it look good, but still... I think it looks good:
View attachment 967751
The strategic regions of North Africa

You're welcome. The law setup looks good, that's the best we can expect with this game. It may not be feasable for gameplay, but most historians do suggest it was more towards 10 million while some on the other extreme suggest 20 (wikipeda cites a German News network-20mil article and an encyclopedia-10mil). One of my sources "Intellectual Discourse in the Sokoto Caliphate: The Triumvirate's Opinions on the Issue of Ransoming, ca. 1810" by Jennifer Lofkrantz a scholarly article in The International Journal of African Historical Studies, Vol. 45, No. 3 (2012), pp. 385-401 (17 pages) indicates that the population was 8-10 million, so maybe if we should err on the side of caution and use the lower estimate it should be 8 million? here is the quote "Initially, the reformers shaped their society and government based on the system established by the Prophet Muhammad at Medina and the four Companions that succeeded him, yet this became impractical as the state expanded. At its height in the mid-nineteenth century, the state encompassed 150,000 square miles, was composed of thirty emirates, had a population of between 8 and 10 million which encompassed numerous ethnicities and religious beliefs, and was the largest state in sub-Sahara." Scholars tend to see it as a very populous empire. Maybe the population of Nigeria was only 20 million because population stagnated or because Nigeria didn't have some of the same territories Sokoto did at its height? Of course it's your mod and I understand you have to do what you can to make it feasible, just wanted to provide some context for why I was suggesting those numbers. Thanks for your consideration, and I like the new strategic regions!

 

[rawislon03]

(Alt account for Warillo.)

Laws look great and the new strategic regions will make playing in the region interesting, I like the separation of Arabia and the Coasts, pursuing policies in the interior or even settling or conquering either regions as an Arab power being a dedicated effort just sounds right.

Can't wait to make Otaibah Arabia.

 

[rawislon03]

On Sudan, I don't know if Egyptian Sudan existed beyond Khartoum at game start. From what I've found a lot of Egyptian expansion into the south came about through the middle to late 1800s.

 

[rawislon03]

I've been trying to find more stuff about the borders of Darfur, though I think it was fairly fluid, Kordofan had been under the de jure control of Darfur, however an Egyptian governor operating out of Khartoum subjugated much of the country to Cairo.

 

[sameenshark]

Will this mod be released soon? If not, then when? I'm really looking forward to it.

 

[rawislon03]

You're welcome. The law setup looks good, that's the best we can expect with this game. It may not be feasable for gameplay, but most historians do suggest it was more towards 10 million while some on the other extreme suggest 20 (wikipeda cites a German News network-20mil article and an encyclopedia-10mil). One of my sources "Intellectual Discourse in the Sokoto Caliphate: The Triumvirate's Opinions on the Issue of Ransoming, ca. 1810" by Jennifer Lofkrantz a scholarly article in The International Journal of African Historical Studies, Vol. 45, No. 3 (2012), pp. 385-401 (17 pages) indicates that the population was 8-10 million, so maybe if we should err on the side of caution and use the lower estimate it should be 8 million? here is the quote "Initially, the reformers shaped their society and government based on the system established by the Prophet Muhammad at Medina and the four Companions that succeeded him, yet this became impractical as the state expanded. At its height in the mid-nineteenth century, the state encompassed 150,000 square miles, was composed of thirty emirates, had a population of between 8 and 10 million which encompassed numerous ethnicities and religious beliefs, and was the largest state in sub-Sahara." Scholars tend to see it as a very populous empire. Maybe the population of Nigeria was only 20 million because population stagnated or because Nigeria didn't have some of the same territories Sokoto did at its height? Of course it's your mod and I understand you have to do what you can to make it feasible, just wanted to provide some context for why I was suggesting those numbers. Thanks for your consideration, and I like the new strategic regions!

Charity Hospitals off the bat could certainly help bolster the population. We'll probably see a much quicker growth of Sokoto's population