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Message From The Devs: "Of Bots And Men"

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unmerged(314357)

unmerged(314357)

Critical Studio Developer
May 11, 2011
132
0
Hello boys and girls,

We've been collecting a lot of feedback from you in all corners of the internet. We thank you very much for supporting our game and helping to shape its future. Keep posting: we are listening!

One thing that has popped up in Beta and is popping up now again is the AI Bots.

Our stance on AI Bots has been the following:

Dungeonland was designed as a multiplayer game. The AI Bots exist as practice/learning tools and to fill temporary gaps when a player is late or drops mid-game.​

You must keep in mind that we are a very small team. We can only work in so many things at any time, so any time we spend making the AI bots better means less time we are spending making the Multiplayer portion better. We are currently developing an updated roadmap of Dungeonland, to plan ahead and figure out which aspects of the game we will improve in future updates.

Since YOU are the costumers, we want to hear what YOU think. How important are the AI Bots to you right now?

Do you play with Bots most of the time? Do you use them to fill up empty slots often, or do you actually play Dungeonland as if it were a single-player game?

Would you be willing to wait on other improvements to DM Mode, or new Adventure areas, while we improve the behaviour of the AI Bots? If we were to improve them, what would you most like to see improved?

This is not intended as a poll, only a discussion. We want to hear what you have to say about it, but ultimately the responsibility of making a decision is ours.

Opinions, away!
 
Not important IMHO. I definately wouldn't want to wait on other improvements just to have AI improvements. For me they are only something temporary until real people join, nothing more. The only thing I'd do is allow them to use potions, which hopefully wouldn't take that much development time (as far as I know, I could be completely wrong).
 
I think bot improvements are necessary. If somebody drops from the game it essentially ruins the match because you can't count on the bot to help you through. It ruins the game for the DM (if there is one) and definitely ruins the match for the other 2 heroes. Also if you happen to have 2 or 3 friends and wish to make a private match, well the handicap of having bots involved is pretty huge. Having them be at least somewhat capable (including potion usage) would go a long way to making the game less painful when you don't have exactly 4 players at all times.
 
Hmm this is definitely a difficult one. Aqualisk brings up a good point about reliability of them mid game, i can really see the annoyance and can really bring the game down. However AI is going to be extremely hard as we are all aware. To make them react to all situations, work well with human players and survive a game that prides itself on its difficulty would be nothing short of miraculous. Not to say I don't believe it can be done, but if it holds back everything else, why continue playing the game with or without bots? Games need to evolve to keep interest and although i can see myself and others playing it in it's current state for a long time, I can also see many more craving for more features and freshness. As stated the aim is a multiplayer game, so I think we all have to just grit our teeth and deal with a few AI stupidities and try ourselves to be more reliable in games. If a few games go wrong from bots? no sweat, play another. After all, the game is just for fun :)
 
Like the others said, it would be nice to see improvements on the bots, but you should focus on the Multiplayer. I particularly play a lot with bots (because my friends are not online most of the time), but most of people play online. New Adventure areas, monsters, skin items, etc. Ah, and Bots using potions ASAP. ;D
 
I'd prefer your guys focusing on the other stuff such as being able to have new areas in the DM mode (or at least being able to swap the textures around, so even if the map is the same, it would be cool to have the models and textures from for example the jungle level in DM mode).

As for AI bots... I mean, there are a few things that I'd prefer if it would get fixed, namely that they use potions AND that they actually ress people (there's nothing quite as annoying as when the bot runs to res someone, then half way through it just stops and runs away, then runs back, resurrects you half way and then stops again, resulting in a loss of life). So it should preferably prioritize resurrecting players a bit higher so it doesn't just run off to grab coins or life.
 
Add more content and improve the current multiplayer experience, then work on improving the AI if capable.

Perhaps you should add a poll so we can vote on it as well? Make it easier to figure out what everyone prefers you focus on :)
 
Most people are forced to play to play with bots and no actualy players currently because of the connecting issues the game has.
If this doesnt change the game will bore A LOT of players pretty fast.

I guess the most entertaining and fun part about the game is the DM Mode. If the connecting issues wont be fixed alot of players can only play it with bots.
 
Honestly I'd rather see game stability first, and fixes to perks that don't quite work right all the time.

As nice as having competent bots would be, the game is a bit too intricate for an easy "fixed bot ai" patch that will solve all problems. Maybe, yes, program in it so they use potions if people are below x life, and have the warrior shield bash once in a while if there's x amount of enemies in front of him. Even those are probably deceptively large programming issues to adjust, and where bots are passable, I say focus on stability and bugs.

The patch yesterday helped out with some people's performance issues, so that's a big win. Also viewing ping while lobby browsing would be a bit help too, I'm glad you guys are working on that. And I feel Mr-Lancelot's pain with not being able to DM, one of my friends that I split a 4 pack with just can't host despite forwarding the ports. So a way to pass DM off to someone else would be pretty cool.
 
I agree that while it makes sense for multiplayer to be the main focus, the poorness of the bots does basically ruin games if someone happens to drop, or a party only wants to go with 1-2 people. I would suggest that bots simply get a respectable health and maybe damage buff if it would take too long to code in their alt-abilities/potion use. That way, at least they aren't The Load anymore.
 
Bug fixing should defiantly be a priority right now, there's so many that I don't even really want to list them. The computer AI is a decent replacement for the bots the warrior works the best currently. The Rouge and Mage could really use a touch up. In fact if you add the ability for them to use potions and for the mage to actually use his shield(right click) then they should be fine. Dungeonland is a co-op game friends cannot replace bots.

I think the AI could use a small upgrade but anything major I feel should be pushed back. Perhaps even past the development of the "Infinite Dungeon" and other DLC you guys might be crackin up.
 
i'd love to see improvements on bot ai. most of the time i play at night. i have little kids who tend to wake up exactly the moment a danger event occurs in dungeonland :) so i have to pause the game which is pretty much impossible in multiplayer mode ^^ so i'm forced to stick with bots for the most time.
 
I'd rather the focus be put on making the most solid multiplayer experience first. Dealing with the connectivity and fps problems should be top priority, followed by further development in DM/multiplayer content. A single DM map, although tile-like generated, gets old after a while when you start recognizing every single tile. I'd imagine there won't be a ton of people playing with just A.I. if hosting/joining/playing a multiplayer game was 100% solid.
 
venturelli said:
Hello boys and girls,

We've been collecting a lot of feedback from you in all corners of the internet. We thank you very much for supporting our game and helping to shape its future. Keep posting: we are listening!

One thing that has popped up in Beta and is popping up now again is the AI Bots.

Our stance on AI Bots has been the following:

Dungeonland was designed as a multiplayer game. The AI Bots exist as practice/learning tools and to fill temporary gaps when a player is late or drops mid-game.​

You must keep in mind that we are a very small team. We can only work in so many things at any time, so any time we spend making the AI bots better means less time we are spending making the Multiplayer portion better. We are currently developing an updated roadmap of Dungeonland, to plan ahead and figure out which aspects of the game we will improve in future updates.

Since YOU are the costumers, we want to hear what YOU think. How important are the AI Bots to you right now?

Do you play with Bots most of the time? Do you use them to fill up empty slots often, or do you actually play Dungeonland as if it were a single-player game?

Would you be willing to wait on other improvements to DM Mode, or new Adventure areas, while we improve the behaviour of the AI Bots? If we were to improve them, what would you most like to see improved?

This is not intended as a poll, only a discussion. We want to hear what you have to say about it, but ultimately the responsibility of making a decision is ours.

Opinions, away!
Click to expand...

No offense, but how can the bots serve as practice/learning tools? They behave nothing like human partners, they don't even use all their abilities or gear and you can't configure them at all. I know you guys spent the bare minimum time on the AI because you're targeting the multiplayer demographic (fair enough), but please do me a favor and do the following:

a) Stop Steam from adding the 'Singleplayer' tag to this game, because there is no such thing in this game. You just admitted that the only function bots serve is as a bare bones tutorial. Atm that 'Singleplayer' tag is highly, highly misleading.
b) Stop bots from using up lives when they die. You haven't given them the AI to cope with your levels, so stop penalizing the player for the fact that you don't consider functional AI a priority. Your 'learning tools' get themselves killed the moment you leave them alone for 10 seconds.

Thank you for reading this, and congratulations on creating a very interesting game.
 
Lanrutcon said:
b) Stop bots from using up lives when they die. You haven't given them the AI to cope with your levels, so stop penalizing the player for the fact that you don't consider functional AI a priority. Your 'learning tools' get themselves killed the moment you leave them alone for 10 seconds.
Click to expand...

I kinda like that idea, not sure how hard it would be to implement, or what it would to do balance. But it could be a workaround to totally re-hauling bot programming. Maybe it only triggers for DM mode?
 
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