Looking for someone knowledgeable in Spanish politics/history

[Viden]

I don't know if the Spanish Totalists could be more 'rural' (more 'Maoist'), using populism about land reform and the peasants as their power base, as opposed to the anarchists and reformists, that will have their power base in the industrial workers (although the anarchists still can have much support between the peasants of specific areas). In this sense the Totalists could propose more 'friendly' politics with the peasants, even if they want a totalitarian state at the end.

Or maybe the other extreme, the Statists could start as members of the reformist faction (almost all of both will have a Marxist background as opposed to the Bakunist anarchists after all) and later secede outraged saying that the reformists "don't want to end with the capitalism in the countryside". 'Statists' will be the name used by their opposers and the general political discourse, I doubt that they would call themselves by that name.

It is only brainstorming about giving more 'personality' and flavour to the factions, maybe this can be decided in an event.

I'm not sure about that, if I'm not wrong, the peasants were more Anarchist-winged. On the other hand, I think that a "Maoist" faction could be nice and adds a touch of difference to Spanish Syndicalists.

 

[Barón Rojo]

Yes, the anarchists could have much rural support in some areas, Aragon, Andalusia, etc. but I think that at the end more peasants will want a private plot for them to work instead of the collectivization, the reformists will look like slow and inefficient in their agricultural reform, then the Statits could make some opportunistic use of them. I think that the Statists could use the populism to gain a powerhouse, between the peasants talking about the new 'petit-burgeoise' farmers, and between the urban workers of small industries, part-time jobs, people living in the slums, etc. denouncing the 'worker aristocracy' of the big factory councils, and criticizing the power of the Catalan anarchists, you know... playing with those things to advance their agenda. At the end they could be very popular between the poorest and less illustrated population, and between the people that don't think that the current situation is a real improvement and that more revolutionary measures should be taken.

Well, I only throwing ideas away.

 

[Viden]

Yes, the anarchists could have much rural support in some areas, Aragon, Andalusia, etc. but I think that at the end more peasants will want a private plot for them to work instead of the collectivization, the reformists will look like slow and inefficient in their agricultural reform, then the Statits could make some opportunistic use of them. I think that the Statists could use the populism to gain a powerhouse, between the peasants talking about the new 'petit-burgeoise' farmers, and between the urban workers of small industries, part-time jobs, people living in the slums, etc. denouncing the 'worker aristocracy' of the big factory councils, and criticizing the power of the Catalan anarchists, you know... playing with those things to advance their agenda. At the end they could be very popular between the poorest and less illustrated population, and between the people that don't think that the current situation is a real improvement and that more revolutionary measures should be taken.

Well, I only throwing ideas away.

I like tha idea, but "anarchists" instead of "Catalan anarchists".

 

[Barón Rojo]

yeah, I was talking that they would use that the majority of the leadership of the CNT was from Catalonia and that their base of operations was there to "play that card".

 

[Viden]

yeah, I was talking that they would use that the majority of the leadership of the CNT was from Catalonia and that their base of operations was there to "play that card".

The problem of that idea is the inciting a "counterrevolutionary" nationalistic hate. The response to that by the Anarchists would be "¿Do you have any problems with the Catalans?", and a positive answer isn't an option.

 

[Barón Rojo]

They wouldn't say it openly due fear of appearing as reactionaries or alienating the people in Catalonia, but they can talk about "the powers that move from Barcelona" that "don't represent the Catalan people", "the forces that are breaking the unity of the country" and similar stuff.

Now that I thinking, the internal organization of the country should be a subject of debate too. About recognizing autonomy to Catalonia, Basque Country and maybe Galicia, with the possibility of expanding it to other places or not, about creating a federation, that could be the option of the anarchists, or about keep the country more or less centralized or "we have topics more important to discuss", that could be the statists.

 

[Viden]

They wouldn't say it openly due fear of appearing as reactionaries or alienating the people in Catalonia, but they can talk about "the powers that move from Barcelona" that "don't represent the Catalan people", "the forces that are breaking the unity of the country" and similar stuff.

Now that I thinking, the internal organization of the country should be a subject of debate too. About recognizing autonomy to Catalonia, Basque Country and maybe Galicia, with the possibility of expanding it to other places or not, about creating a federation, that could be the option of the anarchists, or about keep the country more or less centralized or "we have topics more important to discuss", that could be the statists.

This was one of our firsts thought in the Spanish forum and because that we proposed and autonomist faction, but we've been unable to find a more than a few members for it. So, depending of which faction harbors that autonomists, that faction will support a federation. I think the best option are the Social-Revolutionaries, whilst the Statists would go to a centralized state just like British Maximists. I'm not sure about the Anarcho-Syndicalists because they would go for a decentralized commune system, but in game mechanics I think that too similar to the S-R proposal of a decentralized federation. Perhaps we can use a similar approach to the British one, with a federalist faction (The A-S), an autonomist one (The S-R) and a centralistic one (The Statists).

 

[Barón Rojo]

Yeah, I was thinking that. The point is that the anarchists will want a federation of towns and communes whit strong "local power", more like cantonalism, the SR would want the system that was tried in the Second Republic and that we have now, choosing if extend the autonomies to all the territory or keep it in Catalonia/Basque Country/Galicia, and the statists could say that it is inefficient, bring inequalities, etc. and that the decisions should be taken in the central council.

 

[Viden]

Yeah, I was thinking that. The point is that the anarchists will want a federation of towns and communes whit strong "local power", more like cantonalism, the SR would want the system that was tried in the Second Republic and that we have now, choosing if extend the autonomies to all the territory or keep it in Catalonia/Basque Country/Galicia, and the statists could say that it is inefficient, bring inequalities, etc. and that the decisions should be taken in the central council.

It sounds good, but... In what Congress? The one after the war?

BTW, I'm starting to get tired about civil wars that are in full swing when France attacks Germany. Is there any chance to delay WW2 or accelerate the civil wars (Spain, USA, Russia...)?

 

[Barón Rojo]

I don't know, maybe the first or second congress after the war. I guess that the third congress could be around 1945 and for then the average player will stop playing the game.

For the civil wars, maybe direct intervention of the powers if the war broke? Although I don't know if this will balance the game, given that France will have to send troops to the south.
Anyway, if the Commune is beaten and the FAI still exists Germany should intervene without any problem.

 

[Viden]

I don't know, maybe the first or second congress after the war. I guess that the third congress could be around 1945 and for then the average player will stop playing the game.

For the civil wars, maybe direct intervention of the powers if the war broke? Although I don't know if this will balance the game, given that France will have to send troops to the south.
Anyway, if the Commune is beaten and the FAI still exists Germany should intervene without any problem.

France is defeated in any single game without reaching the Rhine, so better no direct involvement.

 

[Barón Rojo]

I guess that it should be in the first congress after the war, where the tensions could rise and the lines could be draw.
And yes, the French AI is kinda bad. xD

We make the ministers or what? Giving that these guys are 'on vacation'.

 

[Viden]

I guess that it should be in the first congress after the war, where the tensions could rise and the lines could be draw.
And yes, the French AI is kinda bad. xD

We make the ministers or what? Giving that these guys are 'on vacation'.

Ok. I will search for the unfinished lists that some forumites started in the Spanish forum. But first of all, I want to inform that the actual Anarchist ministers need to be fixed, some of them have different names and images for different positions despite being he same person.

 

[Barón Rojo]

Ok, for the anarchists I found Manuel Escorza del Val, as chief of intelligence. http://www.suite101.net/content/manuel-escorza-luces-y-sombras-de-la-barcelona-revolucionaria-a37644

I guess that Nin and POUM will be with the anarchists, right?

 

[Viden]

I think the POUM should be with the S-R since they're Anti-Stalinist Marxists.

Now, some people (I used the native names, if you need the Spanish ones, just tell me). This list lacks a lot of Anarchists and Statists.

Anarcho-Syndicalists:

- Federica Montseny Mañé > ¿Security? ¿Armaments?.
- Juan Peiró i Belis > Armaments.
- Juan García Oliver > Security.
- Juan López Sánchez > Armaments.
- Gregorio Jover Cortés > Land Army, ¿Chief of Staff? ¿Armaments?
- José Buenaventura Durruti Dumange > Land Army, Chief of Staff ¿Security? ¿Armaments?
- Francisco Ascaso Abadía > Land Army
- Joaquín Ascaso Budría > HoS, HoG, ¿Armaments?
- Ángel Pestaña Núñez > Security, Foreign Affairs.
- Martí Barrera i Maresma > Armaments.
- Ramón José Sender Garcés > Foreign Affairs.
- Miguel Hernández Gilabert > Foreign Affairs.
- Josep Viadiu i Valls > Foreign Affairs.
- Joaquín Maurín Juliá > Foreign Affairs ¿HoS? ¿HoG?

Social-Revolutionaries:

- Carles Pi i Sunyer > Armaments, ¿HoG?
- Pere Bosch i Gimpera > Security, Foreign Affairs.
- Lluís Companys i Jover > Armaments, Navy ¿HoS? ¿HoG?
- Amadeu Aragay i Davi > Armaments.
- Manuel Azaña Díaz > HoS, HoG, Foreign Affairs, Security.
- Frederic Escofet i Alsina > Land Army ¿Chief of Staff?
- Marcelino Pascua Martínez> Foreign Affairs, ¿Armaments? ¿Security?
- Segismundo Casado López > Land Army, Chief of Staff.
- Juan Hernández Saravia > Land Army, Chieff of Staff, Armaments.
- Santiago Casares Quiroga > HoS, HoG, Security, Armaments, Navy.
- Gregorio Marañón y Posadillo > Foreign Affairs, ¿Armaments? ¿Security?
- Diego Martínez Barrio > Security, Armaments.
- Carlos Esplá Rizo > Foreign Affairs.
- Pere Pagès i Elies > Security.
- José Luis Arenillas Ojinaga > ¿Security? ¿Armaments?
- Jordi Arquer i Saltor > Security.
- Ignacio Iglesias Suárez > Armaments.
- Julián Gómez García > Chief of Intelligence, Security.
- José Miaja Menant > Land Army, Chief of Staff, Armaments.
- Carlos Masquelet Lacaci > Land Army, Chief of Staff, Armaments.
- Augusto Barcia Trelles > Security, ¿Foreign Affairs?
- Sebastián Pozas Perea > Land Army, Chif of Staff, Armaments.
- José del Castillo Sáenz de Tejada > Land Army, Security.
- Fernando Condés Romero > Land Army, Security.
- Juan Simeón Vidarte y Franco Romero > Security, Armaments.
- Julián Zugazagoitia Mendieta > Security.
- Victoria Kent Siano > Security.
- Clara Campoamor Rodríguez > Security.
- Álvaro de Albornoz Liminiana > Foreign Affairs.
- Enric Pérez i Farràs > Land Army.
- Pablo de Azcárate y Flórez > Foreign Affairs.
- Julián Besteiro Fernández > Foreign Affairs ¿HoG? ¿HoS?
- José Giral Pereira > HoG, Security, Navy ¿HoS?
- Fernando de los Ríos Urruti > Security, Foreign Affairs.
- Indalecio Prieto Tuero > Armaments, Navy, Chief of Air Force ¿HoS? ¿HoG?
- Mariano Ruiz-Funes > Security, Armaments.
- Julio Just Gimeno > Armaments.
- Marcelino Domingo Sanjuán > Armaments, Security.
- Federico García Lorca > Foreign Affairs.
- Rosa Chacel Arimón > Foreign Affairs.
- Juan Negrín López > HoS, HoG, Armaments, Security.
- Josep Tarradellas i Joan > Armaments ¿HoG? ¿HoS?
- Andreu Nin i Pérez > Security, Armaments ¿HoS? ¿HoG?
- Fernando Martínez-Monje Restoy > Land Army, Chief of Staff.
- Alejandro Lerroux García > HoG, Armaments, Foreign Affairs.
- Luis Jiménez de Asúa > Foreign Affairs, Security.
- María Zambrano Alarcón > Security.
- José Bullejos Sánchez > Security.
- Américo Castro Quesada > Foreign Affairs.
- Claudio Sánchez-Albornoz y Menduiña > Foreign Affairs.
- Matilde Cantos Fernández > Security, ¿Foreign Affairs?
- Wilebaldo Solano > Security ¿HoS? ¿HoG?

Statists:

- Dolores Ibárruri Gómez > HoS, HoG, Foreign Affairs, Security.
- José Díaz Ramos > HoS, HoG, Foreign Affairs, Security.
- María Eustaquia Caridad del Río > Chief of Intelligence.
- Ramón Mercader del Río Hernández > Chief of Intelligence, Security.
- Enrique Castro Delgado > Armaments.
- Jesús Hernández Tomás > Security, Foreign Affairs.
- Jesús Larrañaga Churruca > Armaments, Land Army, Chief of Staff.
- Ángel Galarza Gago > Security.
- Francisco Largo Caballero > HoS, HoG, Armaments.
- Jaume Girabau Estévez > Land Army.
- José Asensio Torrado > Land Army, Chief of Staff.
- Carlos Baraibar Ezpondaburu > Security.
- Luis Araquistáin Quevedo > Foreign Affairs.
- Miguel Núñez de Prado y Susbielas > Chief of Air Force, Chief of Navy, Chief of Intelligence.
- Margarita Nelken Mansberger > Security, Foreign Affairs
- Alberto Bayo Giroud > Land Army, Chief of Air Force.
- Juan Guilloto León > Land Army, Chief of Staff.
- Francisco Barreiro Barciela > Land Army.
- Juan Astigarrabía Andonegui > Armaments, ¿Foreign Affairs? ¿Chief of Intelligence?
- Manuel Azcárate Diz > Security.
- Enrique Líster Forján > Land Army, Chief of Staff.
- Oscar Pérez Solís > Land Army, Armaments.
- Valentín González González > Land Army.
- Santiago Carrillo Solares > Security, Land Army.
- Rafael Alberti Merello > Foreign Affairs.
- Vicente Uribe Galdeano > Armaments.
- Pedro Checa > Armaments.
- Julián Gómez García > Foreign Affairs, Security.
- José Bergamín Gutiérrez > Foreign Affairs, Security.
- Pedro Garfias > Security.
- Guillermo Ascanio Moreno > Land Army, Armaments.
- Luis Barceló Jover > Land Army.
- Jesús Monzón Reparaz > Chief of Intelligence.

 

[Barón Rojo]

I think that Nin and Cia. should be with the anarchists, they were in the CNT until the Russian Revolution after all, and sided with the anarchists, the communes, etc. all the time. I don't see Miaja siding with the revolution in this timeline. About Besteiro and Azaña and the republican left I think that they can stay with the KoS and be the leftist faction in their elections if they win. Victoria Kent also can be a foreign minister, being traveled and fluent in various languages, etc. I would put Largo Caballero in the social-reformist, could be the HoS with Prieto as the HoG, and Negrin with the Statists. Garcia Oliver can be the HoS/HoG of the anarchists.

And also, Rojo Lluch is missing, for the social-reformists maybe.
Blas Infante, security S-R.
Other, social-revolutionary?, Cipriano Mera.

BTW, other intelligence/security for the anarchists, Manuel Salgado Moreiras.

 

[Viden]

I think that Nin and Cia. should be with the anarchists, they were in the CNT until the Russian Revolution after all, and sided with the anarchists, the communes, etc. all the time.

They were Marxists, because that I put them in the S-R.

I don't see Miaja siding with the revolution in this timeline.

Ok.

About Besteiro and Azaña and the republican left I think that they can stay with the KoS and be the leftist faction in their elections if they win.

I dislike that idea. The Republican Left defended positions like overthrowing the Monarchy, redistributing the land among the peasants and destroying any influence the Church had in Spain. With KR Canon in mind, they must be outlawed in the KoS.

Victoria Kent also can be a foreign minister, being traveled and fluent in various languages, etc.

Ok.

I would put Largo Caballero in the social-reformist, could be the HoS with Prieto as the HoG, and Negrin with the Statists.

Why Caballero, the Spanish Lenin, should be why the S-R? For him they are a bunch of sissies. In fact, he has quotes like "democracy is incompatible with socialism", "if the right win the elections, we must go to a declared Civil War" or "we will overthrown the regime of private property". And during the Republic, he defended the "Sovietization" of Spain.

About Negrin, why he should go with the Statists? He was far more moderate. In fact, his "13 Points" included:

- Democratic Republic.
- Peasant Democracy.
- Non-political army.
- Renounce to war.
- Guarantee of private property.
- Amnesty to every Spaniard.

And his politics included an alliance with the bourgeoisie and the middle classes and the restriction of the Revolutionary movement.

Garcia Oliver can be the HoS/HoG of the anarchists.

Ok.

And also, Rojo Lluch is missing, for the social-reformists maybe.
Blas Infante, security S-R.
Other, social-revolutionary?, Cipriano Mera.

The list is incomplete.

BTW, other intelligence/security for the anarchists, Manuel Salgado Moreiras.

Ok, add them to the list.

 

[Barón Rojo]

Because Largo Caballero defended a broad front between all the left, including anarchists, and was more willing to compromise, while Negrin favored the communists above the anarchists.
And the alliance with the bourgeoisie was also a politic of the communist party during the war (and the post-war).

And about the POUM, even if they are marxists in practice they will side with the anarchists proposals, they were libertarian communists. BTW, you put Maurin (POUM) with the anarchists.
And from a gameplay point, it add more ministers to the anarchs, balancing their number between all the faction.

 

[Viden]

Because Largo Caballero defended a broad front between all the left, including anarchists, and was more willing to compromise, while Negrin favored the communists above the anarchists.
And the alliance with the bourgeoisie was also a politic of the communist party during the war (and the post-war).

The broad front is the main policy of all three factions in KR Civil War. That's not a point. Moreover, Largo Caballero favors collectivization, centralization, the bolition of the private propierty, etc.

And about Negrin, he favored the commies after the anarchists suicide themselves during the events of May in Barcelona. And he himself was never a commie.

And about the POUM, even if they are marxists in practice they will side with the anarchists proposals, they were libertarian communists. BTW, you put Maurin (POUM) with the anarchists.
And from a gameplay point, it add more ministers to the anarchs, balancing their number between all the faction.

Should remember you that the Anarchist faction is unfinished? BTW, the Anarchists faction is done only based in KR FAI. Sorry for the mistake.

But, ok. If you want the POUM with the Anarchists, get it.

 

[Barón Rojo]

Juan Modesto, Statist chief of staff / land army.

You have some portraits made? I say to start making them myself.