Largest Income But Struggling To Keep Up In Tech - Why?
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In response to pjcrowe, that is artful dodging 
The question is whether the AI is programmed to research faster than us on normal or not - what you call that doesn't matter to me at all. I just want to have a sense of what I'm dealing with. Soooooo, what is the answer?
The question is whether the AI is programmed to research faster than us on normal or not - what you call that doesn't matter to me at all. I just want to have a sense of what I'm dealing with. Soooooo, what is the answer?
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actually I saw somewhere that the AI doesn't have to pay advisor costs, but this isn't much of a deal.
In response to pjcrowe, that is artful dodging
Thanks for the compliment!
The answer is, not that I've been able to notice. Be aware that investments are cumulative, but that the cost of a tech is only determined at the moment you complete it. As an example, let's say all provinces provide equal income and that the equation for tech cost is linear. You have ten provinces and are investing 10% of the tech cost each year. You will achieve that tech in ten years. Now, let's say you expand by one province a year, with rising tech costs you are constantly investing 10% of the new cost each year. Let's say each province generates 10 ducats per year. Year one you invest 100 ducats and the cost is 1000. Year two your investments total 210 and the cost is 1100. Year three add another 120 for 330 and the new cost is 1200. Each year, the prior years' investments shrink in size as a percentage of the cost of the tech, meaning it will take more than a decade to finish it, even though you're investing a constant 10% of the current cost.While the AI in its entirety will always have some of its parts expanding pretty much every year, any given AI country will have long down times in its expansion. Human players, however, tend to have the attitude that they must constantly expand or they will precieve themselves as losing the race. Thus, especially in the first century or two of the game, the human player falls behind in the tech race. Where the human triumphs, however, is when income-generating buildings become available. The human will build Workshops, Constables, Marketplaces, even Custom Houses, in all their provinces to wring every last haypenny they can. This makes the human player's country far more profitable per province than the AIs', allowing them to catch up and surpass the early leaders.
Oh, and based on the rising costs of techs, it's best to occasionally time tech advances so that you complete all five around the same time, and then go on an expansion spree before turtling again.
-Pat
Thank you pjcrowe, that is by far the clearest explanation of the relationship of expansion to tech that I have seen. I now get it.
However, that doesn't explain Spain in the current game. Spain (and France, by the way) has continually expanded throughout the game. For the last 80 years or so, it has expanded much faster than I have - 80 years ago I had slightly more provinces. Also, I have added workshops and marketplaces to all my provinces as rapidly as possible after they became available. I was surprised that there is no AI advantage. That leaves me at a loss to explain what is going on. I would really appreciate your response - you obviously have a deep understanding of the game. Thanks.
You seem to suggest that great expansion in spurts is more effective than continual expansion, with a catch up in research in between. Do I have that right?
P.S. I did just notice you're quotes. As a lifelong, rabid Red Sox fan, I suspect you are allied with the Evil Empire. If so, after the last 5 years, we can afford to be generous - until spring training.
However, that doesn't explain Spain in the current game. Spain (and France, by the way) has continually expanded throughout the game. For the last 80 years or so, it has expanded much faster than I have - 80 years ago I had slightly more provinces. Also, I have added workshops and marketplaces to all my provinces as rapidly as possible after they became available. I was surprised that there is no AI advantage. That leaves me at a loss to explain what is going on. I would really appreciate your response - you obviously have a deep understanding of the game. Thanks.
You seem to suggest that great expansion in spurts is more effective than continual expansion, with a catch up in research in between. Do I have that right?
P.S. I did just notice you're quotes. As a lifelong, rabid Red Sox fan, I suspect you are allied with the Evil Empire. If so, after the last 5 years, we can afford to be generous - until spring training.
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It seems implied in this thread that rapid expansion will always slow you down. This is not true. Any country can expand and keep even or ahead in tech from the start if played correctly. I have expanded to gargantuan proportions with many countries and have always managed to stay way ahead in tech.
I cannot really explain what I mean by correctly. You learn from experience. One big thing you learn is how each country differs and what works for one might be a miserable failure for another. England is a strange one. I have never had a truly successful English game compared to my Spanish, Burgundian, German, or Russian games. I think that their historical rulers did a hell of a job with that island. I really wish the wiki's country guides would be updated.
I do micromanage a bit and try to squeeze every last dime out of territory that I can. They key is to keep BB down early to trade, and then ween yourself off of it once you get rolling and when you feel your economy can keep your tech strong. One mistake I used to make was ignoring trade tech once I started annexing states.
You can throw BB out the window and use those stab free wars to conquer away once you reach this point and monopolizing conquered CoTs will make you far more money than trying to stay in foreign ones.
I cannot really explain what I mean by correctly. You learn from experience. One big thing you learn is how each country differs and what works for one might be a miserable failure for another. England is a strange one. I have never had a truly successful English game compared to my Spanish, Burgundian, German, or Russian games. I think that their historical rulers did a hell of a job with that island. I really wish the wiki's country guides would be updated.
I do micromanage a bit and try to squeeze every last dime out of territory that I can. They key is to keep BB down early to trade, and then ween yourself off of it once you get rolling and when you feel your economy can keep your tech strong. One mistake I used to make was ignoring trade tech once I started annexing states.
You can throw BB out the window and use those stab free wars to conquer away once you reach this point and monopolizing conquered CoTs will make you far more money than trying to stay in foreign ones.
Do you have enough ships to support all your colonies? You need one ship for each overseas province to keep efficiency at 100 %. Personally I don´t see any reason why anyone would want to colonize in EU3 IN. Colonies have low manpower and will slow your research down. Tobacco, sugar, coffee will make your colonies rich and you COTs even richer, but it only starts to payoff late in the game. If you spend your early game conquering lots of lands in Europe, you will have no problem conquering all the colonies you want in the late game. So why go for colonies and not Europe when you can have both?
France is rich. And it is surrounded by even richer provinces (north Italy and Holland/Flandern/Netherlands). France also gets a lot of missions that gives it cores when annexing vassals and conquering provinces. It makes France unique because it is one of very few countries in Europe that can actually speed up research in the short term by conquering lots of new land. France also has all the resources/goods (wine, wool, cloth, iron, naval supplies) that are useful when building manufactories.
Spain usually falls back in tech. Without seeing the saved game it is hard to tell why they are doing well in your game. Maybe they are trading in COTs that no other European nation has access to yet. Maybe they own many COTs themselves. What colonies do they have and what provinces in Europe? Do they own part of Italy or the Netherlands?
Edit: If you start the game in 1399 France will get the provinces around Antwerpen and north Italy. If you start the game in 1492 Austria will own the same region and will easily defeat France. If you start the game in 15xx Spain will own the region and will therefore be the superpower in the game. Well, it should be obvious to anyone what provinces to conquer if you want to be the tech leader and major power in Europe (and the world).
France is rich. And it is surrounded by even richer provinces (north Italy and Holland/Flandern/Netherlands). France also gets a lot of missions that gives it cores when annexing vassals and conquering provinces. It makes France unique because it is one of very few countries in Europe that can actually speed up research in the short term by conquering lots of new land. France also has all the resources/goods (wine, wool, cloth, iron, naval supplies) that are useful when building manufactories.
Spain usually falls back in tech. Without seeing the saved game it is hard to tell why they are doing well in your game. Maybe they are trading in COTs that no other European nation has access to yet. Maybe they own many COTs themselves. What colonies do they have and what provinces in Europe? Do they own part of Italy or the Netherlands?
Edit: If you start the game in 1399 France will get the provinces around Antwerpen and north Italy. If you start the game in 1492 Austria will own the same region and will easily defeat France. If you start the game in 15xx Spain will own the region and will therefore be the superpower in the game. Well, it should be obvious to anyone what provinces to conquer if you want to be the tech leader and major power in Europe (and the world).
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Don´t take anything you can. Prefer:
-CoT
-Clothes/Steel/gold/wine and other good trade goods.
-High value provinces.
-High manpower provinces.
-Manufacturies/Universities.
-You can always create nations/sell provinces. Remember that. 700gold for a province that gives you nothing can be put where? Maybe buildings. Maybe fund a huge colonial expansion.
-Non-cores are crap. So thats a 50year wait before the expansion pays off.
Since tech cost increases per province, make sure the provinces you take are worth at least that increase.
Some countries need to take whatever they can get their hands on, others can be more picky.
-CoT
-Clothes/Steel/gold/wine and other good trade goods.
-High value provinces.
-High manpower provinces.
-Manufacturies/Universities.
-You can always create nations/sell provinces. Remember that. 700gold for a province that gives you nothing can be put where? Maybe buildings. Maybe fund a huge colonial expansion.
-Non-cores are crap. So thats a 50year wait before the expansion pays off.
Since tech cost increases per province, make sure the provinces you take are worth at least that increase.
Some countries need to take whatever they can get their hands on, others can be more picky.
Because it's fun?
I have a lot more fun building a huge colonial empire than blobbing out in Europe, frankly.
The Age of Exploration has always fascinated me. I have always been attracted to games based on that period. The changes in IN make playing a colonial power even more interesting and challenging. I played my first IN game as Portugal. Since many of my provinces are coastal, I always try to have the strongest navy. So tariff efficiency is not a problem. I am more interested in developing an economic superpower than a military one. However, I did find in my current game the great advantage in conquering the N. American tribes in pieces, exacting large sums for each peace and then using that money to fund expansion and development.
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What are the differences in the 1st 50 years in economic/tech impact between conquered provinces and colonial provinces? Something tells me that rapid expansion by conquest is easier than rapid expansion by colonizing.
You need to keep a ship in every overseas province? I'm fairly sure I see my "tariffs" part of the income screen show 100%, yet I don't have a ship for every province (I just have galleys patrolling 3 or so spaces to stop pirates.
If you have to keep a galley in every coastal province, the second you go to war with England you'll be struggling to protect those tariffs and from pirates (though England is annoying anyway; takes time and money to build up a fleet as strong, and one that's in the right places for defence).
If you have to keep a galley in every coastal province, the second you go to war with England you'll be struggling to protect those tariffs and from pirates (though England is annoying anyway; takes time and money to build up a fleet as strong, and one that's in the right places for defence).
If anyone's still wondering about AI, it's programmed to be a goddamn bloody cheater because a machine can never be as complex and in depth as the human mind, if it didn't cheat the game would be far too easy and no one would enjoy it, a machine cannot beat a human without assistance from somewhere, a good example of a good AI engine is that of civ4.
I admit to not having much knowledge of Civ4, but having played Civ1, Civ2 and Civ3 extensively, I can say with confidence that the Civ series is not a good example of good AI. For example, in Civ1 and Civ2 the AI would literally be given free units on your border. Nothing like that is present in EU3, where the AI basically plays by the same rules.
You need to have at least as many ships, not counting transports (I think galleys count), as you have overseas provinces. It doesn't matter where they are. If you have 100 overseas provinces and 90 such ships, then only 90% of your total tariffs become income.
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Ah, I see, thanks. It doesn't matter where they are then? I guess that explains the 100% tariffs I get, as I definately have more ships than overseas provinces (35 or so caravels atm).
The annoying thing is the pirate blockade on the west coast of Mexico... won't be able to get a ship there till I get cores on that side, which won't be for awhile. I'm assuming blockaded provinces don't show up in the calculation of tariffs, hence me still getting 100%.
The annoying thing is the pirate blockade on the west coast of Mexico... won't be able to get a ship there till I get cores on that side, which won't be for awhile. I'm assuming blockaded provinces don't show up in the calculation of tariffs, hence me still getting 100%.
It is also worth noting that while each province increases tech cost it does so at diminsihing returns. Once you reach a certain size, almost every province will be "worth it" to take to increase income and therefore relative technological gain from that value. Larger countries are thus able to take poor land and not suffer. So England, while not having a grossly large amount of provinces, can suffer heavily from colonizing poor land in America. Therefore before blitzing North America with colonists it might be more worthwhile to take some of Morocco, Mexico, or even India before going for North America. And building workshops in colonies helps as well. As they give a boost regardless of income. Workshops are maximized in a country with a lot of provinces.
Ah, thanks for that advice. When the time for a showdown between the Turks and Spain comes, I'll be ready to continue the Reconquista
I do need more colonists, though. Either that, or more manufactories and possibly more universities as well (I generally never have the time to save up for those, since I'm always putting up marketplaces, workshops, constables, forts and the like).
1. Do most people mint in order to get enough money for manufactories or simply save up for a few years?
2. What are the exact monetary benefits of having a core on a province? I think when Mexico finally cores I'll be a lot richer, but I'd like to at least know why...
3. I've got +4 towards Narrowminded (I'm nervous of going further, and plan to turn to Innovative eventually), so why do I have so few colonists? Do I need to move another slider?
I do need more colonists, though. Either that, or more manufactories and possibly more universities as well (I generally never have the time to save up for those, since I'm always putting up marketplaces, workshops, constables, forts and the like).
1. Do most people mint in order to get enough money for manufactories or simply save up for a few years?
2. What are the exact monetary benefits of having a core on a province? I think when Mexico finally cores I'll be a lot richer, but I'd like to at least know why...
3. I've got +4 towards Narrowminded (I'm nervous of going further, and plan to turn to Innovative eventually), so why do I have so few colonists? Do I need to move another slider?
Its interesting that you say "I have no experience with your example, but here are some irrelevant bad examples." CIVIV is very different from its predecessors.
Yes, you are correct, I did a very poor job of explaining my statement in my original post.
What I was getting at is that due to my past experiences with AI in Civ, I find it doubtful that Civ IV is much better.
Lacking the interest to do any research on the matter or to play the game (it's my least favorite Civ game in the series), I'll have to take your word that Civ IV is better in this regard.
edit: Of course, I stand by my original statement that the Civ Series is not a good example of good AI. One game with good AI out of four isn't saying much.