Immortal young women in CK2 - Endless Fertility? Can they die in Childbirth?

[eastcoastceojam]

I got lucky with my first 1066 Matilda of Tuscany run, and she became Immortal in her 20s, only a few years after game start. Matilda is now 44, and only 2 counties away from becoming Queen of Italy. She has 4 sons and 3 daughters.

However, Matilda just got her 2nd straight "Difficult Pregnancy" event chain (both have turned out fine, so far). Immortal characters are immune to disease and infirmity, but they can still die in battle or be assassinated. I assume that dying in childbirth is not a disease, therefore a real risk to her Immortal self. Or is this just another case where the event text for pregnant 40+ yr olds is written for mortals, and I really don't worry about difficult pregnancies at all? If anyone has experience with this, please share.

I also have a question regarding fertility. The wiki says:

"The age at which they became immortal is forever their effective age for portraits, attraction opinion, fertility, and marriage acceptance."

Does this mean that I can still have Matilda popping out kids at her 200th birthday party?

 

[jonjowett]

I also have a question regarding fertility. The wiki says:

"The age at which they became immortal is forever their effective age for portraits, attraction opinion, fertility, and marriage acceptance."

Does this mean that I can still have Matilda popping out kids at her 200th birthday party?

In principle, this is possible. However, you'll probably need to use the seduction focus and/or lovers: once you have a certain number of *living* children you probably won't have any more with your husband.

(I believe the number of living children is 10, via other forum posts, but I haven't investigated it myself. However, I believe that this effect is real - I have frequently seen elderly men with young fertile wives and/or concubines live for decades without fathering any more children.)

EDIT: No idea about the "difficult pregnancy" question - sorry.

 

[ThatGuyFromSeinfeld]

As far as I know, the difficult pregnancies begin after your 4th or 5th and gradually get worse over time with each child that you get (I think every pregnancy after your 7th child is guaranteed to be very difficult). However, I think that the difficult pregnancies really only give you -2 health or so, so as long as there aren't any events that just straight up kill you, you should be fine.

 

[DPS]

In principle, this is possible. However, you'll probably need to use the seduction focus and/or lovers: once you have a certain number of *living* children you probably won't have any more with your husband.
.

In principle, this is possible. However, you'll probably need to use the seduction focus and/or lovers: once you have a certain number of *living* children you probably won't have any more with your husband.

(I believe the number of living children is 10, via other forum posts, but I haven't investigated it myself. However, I believe that this effect is real - I have frequently seen elderly men with young fertile wives and/or concubines live for decades without fathering any more children.)

I believe that limit is per couple, so as long as her husband isn't also immortal, she can just marry a new one and continue to have more children with a new hubby. Of course, even if he is immortal, she can divorce him or have him assassinated. If you really want to have a lot of kids, even if the husband isn't immortal, you might want to divorce or off him once she has 10 kids by him.

 

[Brian Bóroimhe]

In principle, this is possible. However, you'll probably need to use the seduction focus and/or lovers: once you have a certain number of *living* children you probably won't have any more with your husband.

(I believe the number of living children is 10, via other forum posts, but I haven't investigated it myself. However, I believe that this effect is real - I have frequently seen elderly men with young fertile wives and/or concubines live for decades without fathering any more children.)

EDIT: No idea about the "difficult pregnancy" question - sorry.

No, I don't think there's any arbitrary limit on number of living children. Certainly not for the player character at any rate. And court size effects on fertility are now removed too. What you are probably actually seeing there is that male characters have a secret fertility score too, and also lose fertility in old age (think it's about 10-15 years older than for women).
Your old fellas are just shooting dust.

I recently had an immortal Ragnarr Lodbrok who had a ridiculous number of children over a span of over 100 years (became immortal around 24/25).

Sure, most of the older children are long dead, but there's still 15/44 alive. And that's not including all the unacknowledged bastards out there.
So definitely no 10 children cap there. But OP I don't know about the pregnancies. If it is just -2 health for difficult pregnancy, you'll be fine and probably popping them out still into your 100s.

 

[jonjowett]

No, I don't think there's any arbitrary limit on number of living children. Certainly not for the player character at any rate. And court size effects on fertility are now removed too. What you are probably actually seeing there is that male characters have a secret fertility score too, and also lose fertility in old age (think it's about 10-15 years older than for women).
Your old fellas are just shooting dust.

How many of those children were bastards? (Including legitimised bastards, and children of lovers - eg. if your wife is also your lover.)

If you are still producing legitimate children from non-lovers then I guess you have a point!

Aside: How are you guys getting the immortality event chain to fire at age 20ish? Via the console? I don't think I've ever seen it before age 50...

 

[Karlington]

There is no maximum number of living children, and to my knowledge, never has been.

I think people are confusing this with the base number of children. I don't know if this changed with the introduction of the court size mechanic, but it used to be 2 per couple, then an additional 2 for players (so 4 for players).

After this you could still have children, and frequently did. There was just a reduced chance once you hit this threshold.

 

[Karlington]

Aside: How are you guys getting the immortality event chain to fire at age 20ish? Via the console? I don't think I've ever seen it before age 50...

The chance of it firing increases if

a) you are old (increases at ages 50, 60, 70, 80, 90),
b) have a disease,
c) or have very low health (under 2) AND a disease at the same time,

...all stacking. However, it can theoretically fire at any time starting at age 16. It's just down to luck.

 

[jonjowett]

The odds of it firing increases if

a) you are old (increases at ages 50, 60, 70, 80, 90),
b) have a disease,
c) or have very low health (under 2) AND a disease at the same time,

...all stacking. However, it can theoretically fire at any time starting at age 16. It's just down to luck.

Yeah, that would explain it. I normally make sure to treat/remove diseases asap (with a skilled physician), so I wouldn't spend very long in b) and almost no time at all in c).

It's a pity that there's no way to look at your health stat in ironman. If I knew that my overall health was 1.9, I'd gladly avoid treatment in exchange for a chance at immortality.

 

[Karlington]

Yeah, that would explain it. I normally make sure to treat/remove diseases asap (with a skilled physician), so I wouldn't spend very long in b) and almost no time at all in c).

It's a pity that there's no way to look at your health stat in ironman. If I knew that my overall health was 1.9, I'd gladly avoid treatment in exchange for a chance at immortality.

You can always treat it with the regular treatment option - that one can't cure the disease, but can mitigate the penalties. Only up to 2, though, so it's not a good choice for a more serious disease. The problem is that if you hit the older ages, having a low health is almost certain death. Even if the event triggers you're likely to be dead before you have a chance to conclude it.

The ideal would be to get something like the flu, treat it regularly so all its penalties (except sex appeal and combat skill) are nullified, and then just keep it on you for as long as possible.

Still a long shot, though, The MTTH is 3,000 months, or 250 years. If you hit ALL the increasing factors it reduces the MTTH to about 708 1/2 months, or almost 60 years. And at age 90 with health under 2 you'll be dead in a minute.

Having a disease alone is the best modifier, though. It cuts the MTTH down by half by itself, so younger than 50 with health over 2 but a disease has an MTTH of 1,500 months or 125 years.

 

[jonjowett]

You can always treat it with the regular treatment option - that one can't cure the disease, but can mitigate the penalties. Only up to 2, though, so it's not a good choice for a more serious disease. The problem is that if you hit the older ages, having a low health is almost certain death. Even if the event triggers you're likely to be dead before you have a chance to conclude it.

The ideal would be to get something like the flu, treat it regularly so all its penalties (except sex appeal and combat skill) are nullified, and then just keep it on you for as long as possible.

Still a long shot, though, The MTTH is 3,000 months, or 250 years. If you hit ALL the increasing factors it reduces the MTTH to about 708 1/2 months, or almost 60 years. And at age 90 with health under 2 you'll be dead in a minute.

Having a disease alone is the best modifier, though. It cuts the MTTH down by half by itself, so younger than 50 with health over 2 but a disease has an MTTH of 1,500 months or 125 years.

Maybe Great Pox with successful treatment would be a more reliable choice - you can deliberately catch it while you're young and I don't think it can self-heal. But even then you'd need a lot of luck.

 

[Brian Bóroimhe]

How many of those children were bastards? (Including legitimised bastards, and children of lovers - eg. if your wife is also your lover.)

If you are still producing legitimate children from non-lovers then I guess you have a point!

Aside: How are you guys getting the immortality event chain to fire at age 20ish? Via the console? I don't think I've ever seen it before age 50...

None. My unfaithful wife had an unpleasant end. But all those children are spread out over 3-4 wives and a few dozen concubines.

And no console, Ironman! Although full disclosure I did save scum to get it. Only because I'd never had immortal before, and had read a bit about it, really wanted to come across it, then when the event triggered for my early 20s Ragnarr Lodbrok... Well, I thought if ever there was a time to save-scum an ironman game, this is it.

Maybe Great Pox with successful treatment would be a more reliable choice - you can deliberately catch it while you're young and I don't think it can self-heal. But even then you'd need a lot of luck.

I thought he'd been diseased and wounded, but after looking back through some screenshots it looks like he was only stressed when the event fired. (And only had one child)

and the same when the chain concluded 4 years later

Just absolutely unreal luck having it fire on a legendary character at such a young age. That's why I backed up the save! Not something I normally do, but I was also watching the TV show Vikings at the time and just couldn't pass on the opportunity. I think Odin meant for it to happen.

 

[Foefaller]

I think 10 is the soft cap. I mean, the code for "tumble" events does have lines for reducing the chance of pregnancy depending on how many kids there are, but it's never a zero for that and I don't doubt it's not a 0 for normal marriage-based pregnancies either, at least for the player, especially if you have multiple wives or concubines.

 

[eastcoastceojam]

Thanks for all the great responses to this thread.

Maybe Great Pox with successful treatment would be a more reliable choice - you can deliberately catch it while you're young and I don't think it can self-heal. But even then you'd need a lot of luck.

Funny you mention that- that was my exact situation. I chose the Seduction focus at start to get a sin for Matilda to join the Satanists. She got the Pox after the 3rd successful seduction. The Immortal event chain started soon after that, which was the first time that has ever fired for me. Ironman game, no console cheats used.


I haven't seen any answers yet about the possibility of dying in childbirth as an Immortal woman. Not sure if there is just a disease-style -2.0 health malus for the difficult pregnancy, which should be no sweat for an Immortal with +10 health bonus, or if it can result in instant death if RNGesus goes against you. Is anyone familiar with the post-Holy Fury code for pregnancy events as a female ruler?

I've certainly seen plenty of wives and concubines die in childbirth- I just don't want my precious Immortal Matilda to be one of them.

 

[nightgerbil]

Thanks for all the great responses to this thread.



Funny you mention that- that was my exact situation. I chose the Seduction focus at start to get a sin for Matilda to join the Satanists. She got the Pox after the 3rd successful seduction. The Immortal event chain started soon after that, which was the first time that has ever fired for me. Ironman game, no console cheats used.


I haven't seen any answers yet about the possibility of dying in childbirth as an Immortal woman. Not sure if there is just a disease-style -2.0 health malus for the difficult pregnancy, which should be no sweat for an Immortal with +10 health bonus, or if it can result in instant death if RNGesus goes against you. Is anyone familiar with the post-Holy Fury code for pregnancy events as a female ruler?

I've certainly seen plenty of wives and concubines die in childbirth- I just don't want my precious Immortal Matilda to be one of them.

Reply I can comfirm: my immortal empress died twice in childbirth. Also there wasnt a limit on how many kids she spat out that I could see. was about 14 with same dad, but then she died. Only lived 30 years as an immortal too which kinda sucked. After the 2nd time I didnt bother reloading the save again. Theres a fair few events written into the game that just flat out kill you and theres nothing you can do about it and being immortal wont save you. Battlefield (dont lead armies: seriously just dont), duels (theres a flat 3.6% chance your gonna die. Even fighting a guy in a coma with a per skill of 9000 you still get auto killed 3.6% of the time) going after bandits in their camp, deaths chess event, lunatic ai courtiers killing you for shits and giggles, etc. If I recall correctly my empress died to a specfic event that fires to pregnant women NOT a -2 health thing. Really annoying.

 

[Rags17]

Epidurals ? We don’t need no steenkin’ Epidurals !

 

[r3xm0rt1s]

Reply I can comfirm: my immortal empress died twice in childbirth. Also there wasnt a limit on how many kids she spat out that I could see. was about 14 with same dad, but then she died. Only lived 30 years as an immortal too which kinda sucked. After the 2nd time I didnt bother reloading the save again. Theres a fair few events written into the game that just flat out kill you and theres nothing you can do about it and being immortal wont save you. Battlefield (dont lead armies: seriously just dont), duels (theres a flat 3.6% chance your gonna die. Even fighting a guy in a coma with a per skill of 9000 you still get auto killed 3.6% of the time) going after bandits in their camp, deaths chess event, lunatic ai courtiers killing you for shits and giggles, etc. If I recall correctly my empress died to a specfic event that fires to pregnant women NOT a -2 health thing. Really annoying.

If I read the code for troubled/difficult pregnancies correctly, going into seclusion should save you. Still, there's a reason why I've been playing men lately.

 

[eastcoastceojam]

If I read the code for troubled/difficult pregnancies correctly, going into seclusion should save you. Still, there's a reason why I've been playing men lately.

Thanks for sharing this info. I always go into hiding when given the option during the difficult pregnancy, so it is good to know that this should save my ruler from death.