How to stop Abbasid blob?

[Gonzo100100]

I play as Byzantine Empire; I try to roleplay. Anyway, I play from 769 and I want to create a scenario, what if the empire didn’t fall. I try my best not to blob because I want to have things to do in EU4 when I convert saves. Now there is 873 and Shia Caliph has spawned in Syria some time ago, on my borders. They have almost 40k troops and at the beginning I was happy they will shred the huge green Abbasid blob that consumed Ethiopia on one side and just began moving into India on another side. Unfortunately, they prefer to attack me instead, what can I do not to blob myself but help Abbasid shred to pieces? Will it help if I improve relations with Shia Caliph? Will they consider attacking Abbasid?
Army wise Shia is almost 40k, I also have almost 40k and Abbasid recently dropped in power and got only 20k troops.

 

[Andrew0Red]

Opinion doesn't matter; someone can have 100 opinion of you and still help murder you. :/

For some types of wars (most of the normal ones), being more powerfull is a deterrent, so increasing your army and/or getting alliances can do some things.

As for their 40k - is it event troops? If so, consider "helping" him to "ascend to a higher plane of existance", since most event troops disband on death.


But at the end of the day, this, like so many other Paradox titles, is a game of blobs. :/ They'll probably collapse on their own eventually, but there is little limit to the chaos they can cause before then.

 

[jonjowett]

Does the Shia Caliph have a daughter? If so, buy a favor from him and marry/betroth her to one of your close relatives. This gives you a NAP, and might be enough for him to accept an alliance. (If he doesn't have a daughter, you can marry/betroth your own daughter/sister to the Caliph, or to one of his sons.)

Of course, you'll probably need to save up about 1000 gold for the favor, but the Byzantines are usually quite rich, so you can probably manage this in a few years.

Also, in order for him to allow you to buy a favor, you'll need to get him to +26 opinion of you: hire the best possible chancellor, buff your own diplo as much as possible, and send a gift. If that's not enough, you can try using the "sway" feature (little green icon between his portrait and stats), but this is very RNG-dependent. Ditto for the Chancellor's improve relations mission.

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Once you have the NAP, he won't attack you. And your heir may be able to renew the NAP after your death, depending if everyone involved is still a close relative.

If you upgrade to alliance, he will call you into his wars, including the wars against the Abbasids.

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A riskier way to help him take apart the Abbasids would be to declare war on the Abbasids at the same time as he does. They probably won't be able to handle a war on two fronts, especially when one of those fronts is a player. The main risk is that the Shia Caliph wins very quickly and leaves you facing the full might of the Abbasid armies...

This strategy is best paired with a NAP (see above) because it depletes your armies. If the Shia Caliph doesn't have a NAP with you then he's more likely to attack you if you weaken yourself.

 

[Gonzo100100]

@Andrew0Red
Thanks for your reply. Yes, they were event troops. I won the war and hoped that once we have truce, he will use that time to war Abbasid but he didn’t and started another war as the truce expired (his event troops replenished, I thought they are not replenishable, I was wrong) Anyway, in a second war I was in luck, I captured the guy during a battle, and that way I won the war. Following your advice, executed him and 80% of his army disappeared! Awesome on one hand but I am not happy as my vassal began to pick on the Shia state (I purposefully didn’t outlaw internal wars because assumed it will be easier (in worst case scenario) to deal with one vassal becoming too strong than all of them reach and strong constantly threatening me.

@jonjowett
Some of your ideas I would really like to try unfortunately it’s too late now



The year now is 892.
Anyway, I think I may have an opportunity soon. I had a conquest war Causus Beli on Abbasid and I couldn’t use it as my emperor is basically new on his position and doesn’t have enough prestige to start this war. However, when he will be able, the best picks would be to war for Persia or for Egypt and then grant independence to them because they are not in De Jure area of Byzantine empire. Just if someone could confirm for me so I could be 100% sure, will I be able to grant independence just like that to a kingdom outside the dejure lands?
Also, which will cripple Abbasid more, if they lose Egypt or Persia in your opinion?

 

[jonjowett]

Just if someone could confirm for me so I could be 100% sure, will I be able to grant independence just like that to a kingdom outside the dejure lands?

After double-checking the relevant wiki entry, yes, you should be able to grant independence.

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Also, which will cripple Abbasid more, if they lose Egypt or Persia in your opinion?

They are both very rich kingdoms, so it'll depend on the internal structure of the Abbasids. For example, if they have a mega-king in Egypt (+others) and only dukes in Persia then taking Persia will increase their internal instability.

However, I would also be concerned with defending the kingdom after you grant it independence. For that reason, I'd go with Egypt, as you can easily get over there by boat.

Also, Egypt has one of the pentarchy seats - you might want to find a way to keep that for yourself. (Eg. Grant the bishopric to the Ecumenical Patriarch before giving out Alexandria and before granting independence to Egypt.) But I guess it depends if you can find an in-universe justification.

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Top tip: Make the king you release into a permanent tributary. (Either by waiting for the truce to expire or by murdering him asap.) This ensures you will always be called into his defensive wars, and gives you a bit of income/manpower too.

 

[Gonzo100100]

WOW! I was almost ready to start the great conquest and 23rd December 894 an event happened that shredded the Abbasid to pieces. Most rulers are on duke level! There are 3 or maybe more kingdoms but there is only 1 big and powerful the rest are meaningless, small and with no more than 4k troops. The one large one is Egypt.
I don’t even know what this event was because I obviously accidentally clicked ‘close’, silly me, and I wanted to read it... ;p
Well, I guess the Abbasid issue solved itself and the level how broken the empire is exceeded all my expectations. On the map it basically looks like the pagan states of eastern Europe.
I imagine that now my vassals will start chewing through the small Muslim states and I’ll have to think of something either to prevent them or just grant independence from time to time as I really don’t want to conquer too much land, that would make EU4 super boring.
I also need to think how to roleplay a weak ruler in the way to not lose the game but make the OP Byzantine Empire struggle for a bit.

 

[Adeolu102]

WOW! I was almost ready to start the great conquest and 23rd December 894 an event happened that shredded the Abbasid to pieces. Most rulers are on duke level! There are 3 or maybe more kingdoms but there is only 1 big and powerful the rest are meaningless, small and with no more than 4k troops. The one large one is Egypt.
I don’t even know what this event was because I obviously accidentally clicked ‘close’, silly me, and I wanted to read it... ;p
Well, I guess the Abbasid issue solved itself and the level how broken the empire is exceeded all my expectations. On the map it basically looks like the pagan states of eastern Europe.
I imagine that now my vassals will start chewing through the small Muslim states and I’ll have to think of something either to prevent them or just grant independence from time to time as I really don’t want to conquer too much land, that would make EU4 super boring.
I also need to think how to roleplay a weak ruler in the way to not lose the game but make the OP Byzantine Empire struggle for a bit.

It was the decadence event that is the bane of all Muslim rulers it is very painful as a player