How to lose Celibate?

[Tilarium]

Are you feudal? There is an event when you have with the groom an heir ambition, Your court physician offers you an aphrodisiac potion, if you take it, you then pass out and wake up in the middle of a bisexual orgy... That one usually nets you 3 or 4 bastards.

Seriously!? Oh I am so trying this when the patch drops... I've sworn off the game until then because I'm sick of some random courtier convincing the Pope to excommunicate every single king as soon as he takes over.

My ruler died without sons, the bloodlines were lost and a cousin inherited. It was the saddest of days. He lived until he was in his 80s though, so I enjoyed his bloodlines for longer than I expected. Now I've learned to avoid the celibate trait.

That's a bummer, but at least it wasn't gave over. But yeah, celibacy is bad. Just so no to saying no!

 

[metehan7]

FYI just tried it, it doesnt work as of March 2019

 

[junassa]

I didn't see this mentioned but if you don't have a lifestyle trait already take carousing; carouse for about 3 times and you should get the option to take hedonist and that will remove celibacy.

 

[jwalche]

Are you really unable to convert? If you can't because you are the religious head, you might want to try give that title to someone else and try again.

 

[Semigall]

But yeah, celibacy is bad

Nope, it's good, if you have tons of things that you need piety for. Kingdom level invasions (1000 piety), county conquests (50 piety), attacking someone of your faith while they fight infidels (100 piety), making kingdom titles (200 piety), making empire titles (400 piety), meliorism (150 piety, can be repeated as long as you can pay the cost), retinues for defensive pagans (25-75 piety) etc, etc.

 

[jwalche]

Nope, it's good, if you have tons of things that you need piety for. Kingdom level invasions (1000 piety), county conquests (50 piety), attacking someone of your faith while they fight infidels (100 piety), making kingdom titles (200 piety), making empire titles (400 piety), meliorism (150 piety, can be repeated as long as you can pay the cost), retinues for defensive pagans (25-75 piety) etc, etc.

That's why Muslim CBs suck. But then, Muslims can take temple titles with imprison and murders. Abdicate to your heir and let him give the titles back for 25 piety each. Defensive pagan retinue are inferior to basic LI+AR or LI+LH anyway.

 

[majdavlk]

, retinues for defensive pagans (25-75 piety) etc, etc.

the maintenance is actually the worse piety drain than upfrontu payment

Muslims can take temple titles with imprison and murders. Defensive pagan retinue are inferior to basic LI+AR or LI+LH anyway.

anyone can take temples with imprisonment and murders as long as the holders government and succesion laws allow it.

those retinues might be inferior, but also they cost different type of resource which leaves gold and prestige to be used on different things

 

[jwalche]

anyone can take temples with imprisonment and murders as long as the holders government and succesion laws allow it.

those retinues might be inferior, but also they cost different type of resource which leaves gold and prestige to be used on different things

What "anyone" are we talking about? I don't know any government type other than Iqta that can do it.

With Christian and Pagan, your temples are inherited by random generated new priests so you can't take a temple title without revoking the title and spend 25 prestige. Normally not a big deal, but could be a drain with your first ruler when you have other uses for your prestige.

With Muslim Iqta government, a ruler can hold both castle and temple. If you execute your direct vassal wali (holder of temple), you inherit the title. If a temple is held by an other type of priest, first execute him to have a newly generated wali to inherit it, and then execute the wali to take the title.

Let's say you have 1000 holdings, 400 castles, 300 cities, and 300 temples and you want to pillage them. You can't or don't want to revoke 300 temples at 7500 prestige. A tribal Muslim with little prestige can take both castle and temple titles and pillage 700 holdings instead of 400. That can make a difference between military organization tech level 3 and 4.

Among prestige, piety, and ducats, prestige is the easiest and cheapest resource because pagans can collect them from collecting concubines, and you can make dozens of single county independent realms and keep calling tributary wars and demand instant surrender for 200 prestige each.

Ducats can be easier if you have a large realm and many subjects to ransom their children or themselves, especially your vassal merchant republics.

Piety is the hardest get resource. You could collect by having one of your heirs to collect temple titles and another to raise new temple vassals. But it is the hardest and most time consuming trick that you don't want to abuse unless you have to. Beside, any of your character, especially your first ruler, enjoying imprisoning and executing your vassals can never recover from huge negative piety so he is doomed.

My first ruler has -42k piety. Thankfully he became a Christian and then a Tengri Pecheneg. It is much easier to abandon Islam and convert to another religion that doesn't require so much piety for all the CBs.

 

[majdavlk]

What "anyone" are we talking about? I don't know any government type other than Iqta that can do it.

With Christian and Pagan, your temples are inherited by random generated new priests so you can't take a temple title without revoking the title and spend 25 prestige. Normally not a big deal, but could be a drain with your first ruler when you have other uses for your prestige.

With Muslim Iqta government, a ruler can hold both castle and temple. If you execute your direct vassal wali (holder of temple), you inherit the title. If a temple is held by an other type of priest, first execute him to have a newly generated wali to inherit it, and then execute the wali to take the title.

Let's say you have 1000 holdings, 400 castles, 300 cities, and 300 temples and you want to pillage them. You can't or don't want to revoke 300 temples at 7500 prestige. A tribal Muslim with little prestige can take both castle and temple titles and pillage 700 holdings.

1.) i am talking about everyone that is able to inherit normally. (feudal, imperial, iqta, republic, theocracy,...) the only way it is bound by government is when char is theocratic and his rrligior disallows inheritance in that case

2.) that happens only with religious heads if they are open elective or if there are no courtiers in open elective court (including sucdesucc types that have reverted into open elective by no other eligile heirs) or catholic theocracies that get their ruler "appointed by pope"
also confucian bureaucracy gets randomly generated chars i think


all of those who recieve inheritance do so under the same rules (exeption for chars that disalow inheritance if they are theocratic), there is no special rule that iqtas and muslims inherit temples and others do not.

i think you are messing up the type of holding (temple, church) with the government type (theocracy) and the dying guy with his inheritor

3.) i agree with the statement that gold and prestige is easyer to get, was that an argument for something or just fun fact?

 

[jwalche]

1.) i am talking about everyone that is able to inherit normally. (feudal, imperial, iqta, republic, theocracy,...)

2.) that happens only with religious heads if they are open elective or if there are no courtiers in open elective court (including sucdesucc types that have reverted into open elective by no other eligile heirs) or catholic theocracies that get their ruler "appointed by pope"
also confucian bureaucracy gets randomly generated chars i think


all of those who recieve inheritance do so under the same rules (exeption for chars that disalow inheritance if they are theocratic), there is no special rule that muslims inherit temples and others do not.

i think you are messing up the type of holding (temple, church) with the government type (theocracy) and the dying guy with his inheritor

Muslim Iqta theocracy works differently than all others you mentioned and describe.

A temple (or church, etc) under a Muslim Iqta government uses the same open elective only if the current holder is not a wali. And when a random generated char inherit the temple because there is no eligible char, the random generated char becomes a "wali" instead of a priest or whatever type the previous ruler had.

Now, a temple under a Muslim Iqta government ruled by a "wali" DOES NOT use OPEN ELECTIVE. It uses Iqta OPEN succession law same as castle holdings. So when you imprison and execute the new wali without a son, his liege inherits the title. And you inherit them all when you execute the liege who should already be imprisoned.

And that's how you can collect hundreds of temple titles without using prestige under Muslim Iqta government.

Sadly, cities are still allowed to maintain Republic government even under Muslim rule. Unlike churches that are forced to change to Iqta government on the first succession. So you still need to spend prestige to revoke cities to pillage. Probably because Muslim rulers can hold both castle and temple holdings without penalty, but not city holdings.

 

[jwalche]

Here is wiki description;

Iqta government is similar to feudal; it rules according to the Arabic Iqta system rather than the feudal system. This government type is only available to rulers in the Muslim religious group. The only succession law available is the open succession law, where the son with the most land inherits. Realm laws are changed by expending piety. Requires Sword of Islam DLC to be playable.

 

[majdavlk]

Muslim Iqta theocracy works differently than all others you mentioned and describe.

A temple under a Muslim Iqta government uses the same open elective only if the current holder is not a wali. And when a random generated char inherit the temple because there is no eligible char, the random generated char becomes a "wali" instead of a priest or whatever type the previous ruler had.

Now, a temple under a Muslim Iqta government ruled by a "wali" DOES NOT use OPEN ELECTIVE. It uses Iqta OPEN succession law same as castle holdings. So when you imprison and execute a wali, his liege inherits the title.

And that's how you can collect hundreds of temple titles without using prestige under Muslim Iqta government.

1.) recieving inheritance works differntly only in theocracies that disallow inheritance, confucian burrucrbure and religious heads with open elective
i might even post some screenshots if you are interested in me providing proof

2.) by under you mean that the holder has that government or that hos liege has that government? sorry i do not understand this this paragraph at all

 

[Dadoverde]

i love this game...

The "best" part of that event is when "random female character" includes your character's mother...

 

[jwalche]

1.) recieving inheritance works differntly only in theocracies that disallow inheritance, confucian burrucrbure and religious heads with open elective
i might even post some screenshots if you are interested in me providing proof

2.) by under you mean that the holder has that government or that hos liege has that government? sorry i do not understand this this paragraph at all

I will give you screenshots later.

Let me explain it again, in a simpler way.

1. Muslim rulers can hold temples as if they are castles.
2. To allow that, when a temple title is revoked by a Muslim ruler, or is inherited to a random generated Muslim ruler under Open Elective system, the new Muslim ruler changes government type of that temple to a special Muslim theocracy-feudal combined government and gains a special title "wali"
3. This special government works almost same as Castle government under Muslim rule, and uses the same "Open" succession law which is the only allowed one for Iqta government.
4. If a wali dies without heir under Open succession (Not Open Elective), his liege becomes the heir and not a random generated new wali. A new random wali is only generated if the previous title holder was not a wali already.

I hope this makes sense.

In practical example,
1. I just holy warred a Christian duchy, it has a church with a Christian bishop.
2. I imprison and execute the bishop, now the temple becomes a mosque and is inherited by a random generated Muslim wali, because when the bishop died, it was still a church under "Open Elective" law.
3. I imprison and execute the wali, now the mosque is under "Open" law, it is inherited by the dead wali's liege instead of a random generated new wali, just like a barony castle titles are inherited.
4. I gained the temple (or mosque) title without spending any prestige to revoke, or even without title revocation law is enabled. Now as a Tribal Muslim ruler, I raise its levy and send it to raiding, and pillage the former church.
5. Or, if the step 1~3 were done by my father, and I am a pious man, then I raise a new wali on the mosque to collect 25 piety.

 

[majdavlk]

I will give you screenshots later.

Let me explain it again, in a simpler way.

1. Muslim rulers can hold temples as if they are castles.
2. To allow that, when a temple title is revoked by a Muslim ruler, or is inherited to a random generated Muslim ruler under Open Elective system, the new Muslim ruler changes government type of that temple to a special Muslim theocracy-feudal combined government and gains a special title "wali"
3. This special government works almost same as Castle government under Muslim rule, and uses the same "Open" succession law which is the only allowed one for Iqta government.
4. If a wali dies without heir under Open succession (Not Open Elective), his liege becomes the heir and not a random generated new wali. A new random wali is only generated if the previous title holder was not a wali already.

I hope this makes sense.

In practical example,
1. I just holy warred a Christian duchy, it has a church with a Christian bishop.
2. I imprison and execute the bishop, now the temple becomes a mosque and is inherited by a random generated Muslim wali, because when the bishop died, it was still a church under "Open Elective" law.
3. I imprison and execute the wali, now the mosque is under "Open" law, it is inherited by the dead wali's liege instead of a random generated new wali, just like a barony castle titles are inherited.
4. I gained the temple (or mosque) title without spending any prestige to revoke, or even without title revocation law is enabled. Now as a Tribal Muslim ruler, I raise its levy and send it to raiding, and pillage the former church.
5. Or, if the step 1~3 were done by my father, and I am a pious man, then I raise a new wali on the mosque to collect 25 piety.

1.) not all of them, only those of the iqta government
2.) uh... to allow what exactly? sorry there seems to be language barrier between us and google is not helping me
i will try to say in my words what i think you were you trying to say : when a muslim ruler gets a temple by revocation or by being elected in open elective succesion the temple holder changes government to iqta and the title others call him by becomes wali

that is not true in the first case, in the seconds one it would be only if it became his new primary title and he would have become a government type that is not allowed for him or the previous holder was iqta
3.) if were talking about iqta, i think elective monarchy is availible to them if the council authority gets to max, but that is nitpicking. But yes, without all laws in favor of council "open" is the only succesion law availible (not counting gender laws)
4.)i agree with your part but let me add if the wali is independent and has no vassals someone from his court gets chosen to inherit instead, if no one is there a new courtier gets generated, this is called a fallback and in this case it behaves like open elective
these are all of the fallbacks for rulers with feudal type (feudal, monastic feudal, iqta, imperial...)
a) fallback to primogeniture if no heir can be chosen by set succesion law
b) if no heirs can be found under primogeniture then the liege inherits
c) if no liege than feudal type vassal inherits
d) open elective

with the practical example, everything seems in order and i fully understand what is happening and why.