How many mana points do you expect to be getting by the mid-to-late game?

[jez9999]

I'm starting to feel like money isn't an issue with my country after a while, but what does still feel like a very limiting cap is the mana point I'm getting - particularly admin. At the moment I'm getting 13/9/4. How many do people expect to be getting in the mid-to-late game and are there really any ways to increase it or is it a hard cap?

Do you guys keep your national focus on admin, which seems to be the ones that you need more of for coring stuff?

Also, I usually seem to have only one top-level advisor in the pool (+3 at the moment). Do you always go for the top-level advisor to get the most mana points?

 

[necro84]

It's hard cap.
The most you can get is 3 (base) + 6 (ruler) + 5 (advisor) + 1 (power projection) + 1 (estates) and since 1.35 some government reforms can give you 1 extra but usually it just improves monarch skills. You can focus on one power and you gain 2 more points there but lose 1 in the other two.

Mid/late game your admin efficiency improves so you need less points to core provinces or integrate vassals. Many players like to focus on making actions cheaper by stacking modifiers e.g. core creation cost from ideas, policies, bonuses from missions or multiple modifiers reducing development cost


With advisors it depends, if you are very rich you can afford all level 5, if you aren't you need to decide if you want better advisor, more army or some buildings

 

[Maxxie42]

You're right that Admin is by far the most valuable type of mana (at least in single play), so keeping your focus on admin is a sound choice.

All in all I'd say that an average of 11 mana per month is a good thing to aim for : 3 base, 3 from ruler, 3 from advisor, 1 from power projection, 1 from estate privilege. But you should expect a lot of fluctuation there, because a large part of your mana generation depends on your ruler, which you have very limited control over unless you're a republic. On that subject, you should be willing to make liberal use of the disinherit button (if you have the Rights of Man DLC).

Being able to afford high level advisors is one of the main reasons why the early game should be focused on building up your economy rather than mindless conquest. Even having advisors of level 2 instead of level 1 makes a massive difference in the long run.

 

[jez9999]

The thing is, there only ever seems to be one top-level advisor available, so if I want to get the max mana bonus from an advisor I have to go with him no matter what his speciality (and therefore side benefits). I'm guessing the higher mana bonus is far more important.

 

[Korsjan Rīkis]

The thing is, there only ever seems to be one top-level advisor available, so if I want to get the max mana bonus from an advisor I have to go with him no matter what his speciality (and therefore side benefits). I'm guessing the higher mana bonus is far more important.

Are you playing Vanilla?

 

[Maxxie42]

The thing is, there only ever seems to be one top-level advisor available, so if I want to get the max mana bonus from an advisor I have to go with him no matter what his speciality (and therefore side benefits). I'm guessing the higher mana bonus is far more important.

This is another thing that I didn't realize came from DLC, but apparently it's Cradle of Civilization that allows you to promote advisors...

 

[EarlKonrad]

The thing is, there only ever seems to be one top-level advisor available, so if I want to get the max mana bonus from an advisor I have to go with him no matter what his speciality (and therefore side benefits). I'm guessing the higher mana bonus is far more important.

After a certain point there should always be +3 advisors available for you to hire. Generally speaking, Monarch Power is morw valuable then whatever modifier the advisor will give you.

 

[Republic of Mercury]

It's hard cap.
The most you can get is 3 (base) + 6 (ruler) + 5 (advisor) + 1 (power projection) + 1 (estates) and since 1.35 some government reforms can give you 1 extra but usually it just improves monarch skills. You can focus on one power and you gain 2 more points there but lose 1 in the other two.

Strictly speaking, it's not guaranteed to be a hard cap; if you can acquire tributaries, you get can monarch points from them.

 

[Banedon Runestar]

You're right that Admin is by far the most valuable type of mana (at least in single play), so keeping your focus on admin is a sound choice.

All in all I'd say that an average of 11 mana per month is a good thing to aim for : 3 base, 3 from ruler, 3 from advisor, 1 from power projection, 1 from estate privilege. But you should expect a lot of fluctuation there, because a large part of your mana generation depends on your ruler, which you have very limited control over unless you're a republic. On that subject, you should be willing to make liberal use of the disinherit button (if you have the Rights of Man DLC).

Being able to afford high level advisors is one of the main reasons why the early game should be focused on building up your economy rather than mindless conquest. Even having advisors of level 2 instead of level 1 makes a massive difference in the long run.

I agree that 11 is a decent baseline to aspire to.

I will usually have a full cabinet of +3’s, rarely do I have the finances or need to upgrade the ministers to +5.

I have a tendency to swap which pool I’m focusing on. Usually I’m boosting the pool that buys the ideas of the idea group I’m filling in. Sometimes if I’m annexing large vassals, or multiple vassals, I’m boosting Diplo, or if I know I’m going to be starting a series of wars in the HRE I may boost Military.

 

[Manwe_Sulimo]

The thing is, there only ever seems to be one top-level advisor available, so if I want to get the max mana bonus from an advisor I have to go with him no matter what his speciality (and therefore side benefits). I'm guessing the higher mana bonus is far more important.

You should get more Lvl 3 advisors as you grow larger / wealthier (not sure if it is based on your income or size). You can also remove one of the advisor from the list and hope you get a better one (pure luck though) -> requires Common Sense DLC (you might have it as you can set the national focus). If you have a bad heir you can disinherit him (Rights of Men DLC) for 50 prestige. There are also some ideas / events / ... that increase the numbers of advisors available.

Generally, in Vanilla there were relatively few options to get more monarch points, several DLCs later added these options so it is a bit less luck based.
To a certain extend it will be necessary to manage you being low on mana though once in a while. It is not always a big problem being behind a bit in tech, especially since the institution changes it is easier to catch up later. Especially Admin and Diplo usually don't matter too much, military is more dangerous especially in early and when you face enemies that are stronger or of similar strength then you.

Besides: With Republics you have more control, your rulers normally start with 4 1 1 stats (you can choose in what category), but with every re-election they get +1 in all 3 categories so if you are a bit lucky and they live long enough you can get 6 6 6 rulers relatively reliably - it costs a lot of Republican Tradition though, so you can't do that all the time.

 

[jez9999]

I did disinherit my heir and it got me into a game-ending PU with england (positive war score, eternal war where they don't grant independence because war score isn't 23%) :-(

 

[Wertilq]

I did disinherit my heir and it got me into a game-ending PU with england (positive war score, eternal war where they don't grant independence because war score isn't 23%) :-(

You messed up that war big time then. You get +25% for controlling your own capital. You must have lost a lot of battles.

 

[Maxxie42]

You messed up that war big time then. You get +25% for controlling your own capital. You must have lost a lot of battles.

Not necessarily, it could just be the result of the British blockades.

 

[Wertilq]

Not necessarily, it could just be the result of the British blockades.

Sure, but you should be able to beat their blockades as Italy with Galleys. England usually have lots of heavies.

Getting like 40% warscore is not that hard even vs England, by basically just fighting them on your own land and by building up a galley navy before you declare independence.

 

[The Macedonian]

I'd agree with the consensus that 10-11 is each category is a nice rule of thumb. You won't always be able to do this all the time, as you will occasionally be focusing on Admin or something or decide you are OK with a 6/1/4 ruler.