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Growing pains - don't expect more of the same

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Victoria 2 17560 After Action Reports (AAR)
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likk9922

likk9922

Perpetually Confused
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Nov 12, 2006
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Take your time, Paradox!!

Paradox, we adore you and we adore Vicky and Ricky. And this means, of course, that we are all chomping at the bit.

Thing is, you do us no favors releasing a game which is missing something, or needs extensive patching.

I would be willing to wait another six months, another YEAR, even, if this game was released in a stable, relatively unbugged state. I really don't want to do what I've had to do with HOI3 and what I should have done with EUIII- wait a while after the game has been released to buy it.

Not complaining, it just has to be said so it might as well be said nicely. ;)
 
azid said:
No release no get pay!
Click to expand...

They just released HOI3, probably have an EUII standalone made by the community they'll profit off of and are making a killing of EUIII and expansions.
 
It's true. Better a better foundation than a quickly-released product.

Paradox games keep me entertained for years. Except Rome that is.
 
likk9922 said:
They just released HOI3, probably have an EUII standalone made by the community they'll profit off of and are making a killing of EUIII and expansions.
Click to expand...

Im just saying it's a small company who knows maybe they have tight finances. Obviously we all want a perfect game :)
 
Guys - what have you been smoking? V2

HOI3 - still loads of issues.

Rome - can't even stop a crash on exit.

And you blow Victoria to the "older games" section replaced by Victoria2 and another new game.

Either you've been smoking something or you've drunk the marketing department Kool Aid.

Are you really trying to out run Battlefront in the "How to annoy your customers" race?
 
Usually it's secondhand smoke from my roommate or my old man, but anyway I can't really see much room for disappointment in today's news at all. I think Victoria 2's been eagerly anticipated for about 5 years now.
 
Absolutely they should take their time! Vicky I took YEARS to get to the very enjoyable state that it is in today (and still has a few issues at that although it's a fantastic game). I'd like Vicky II to be a stable and playable product on release date...Vicky I if I remember correctly took quite a few fixes to get to that state.
 
Altipueri said:
Are you really trying to out run Battlefront in the "How to annoy your customers" race?
Click to expand...
These announcements have not annoyed me whatsoever. You must also take into account that the patch team is not the same as the development team (according to Johan) and so the 1.2 patch for HoI3 will be released on schedule (in a couple of weeks), the final 3.2 patch for EU3 in September, the "For the Glory" expansion is being developed by people licensing the source code, and so on...

In short, they have the manpower to get things done soon enough! :)
 
HoI will be fixed, eventually. Paradox has invested too much in it to let it stay in its current state. Just make it historical! There are probably different teams working anyway. One for the bug fixing and improvement of HoI 3, a small one for HTTT and the big one for Vicky 2.

The real shame is Rome :( Still buggy, laggy, incomplete and boring :( I just hope it won't be abandoned.
 
I've bought EU2, EU3, CK, and Vicky all pretty close to their respective release dates and almost every single one of them started out as a total trainwreck (EU3 was a decent release, in hindsight.) That being said, all of those games after a few patches became truly enjoyable experiences for me. Am I essentially paying to be a Paradox beta tester? Yeah, kinda...but since they end up turning into games I really like I don't mind.

I might feel differently had I bought Rome or Diplomacy, but I've never been very interested in Roman history and Diplomacy is a truly overrated board game so no worries for me there. :D
 
We already know that there is a big part of the ressources of Paradox drawn into HOI3 1.2. If they announce these titles, it doesn't mean that they are eschewing HOI3 out the back door. I guess that the 1.2 patch is even as important as Vicky2 right now in Paradox's to-do list.

I've been a Paradox fan since 2001, which means EU1 ! I've never seen a company as dedicated to making their games the best they can - even if that means patching their games 4-5 times sans expansions...

Key sentence : do not worry.
 
Sometimes it's easier to write a new game than fix a previous game. Rome with 3D map put on top of old EU3 engine isn't probably tons of fun to work on.

I hoped for CK2 but I guess a game with the whole world in it will sell better. Vicky would be my third choice after CK2 and EU4.
 
Just remember, people, that nothing aside from an open beta with tens of thousands of testers will ever be able to detect all the bugs that come out when people play. Players bend the game in all sorts of weird ways.

For example, one bug that keeps coming up over in HoI3 is that if Germany conquers Greece, then their ally Italy will start a war within the Axis. To test that, think about what percent of test games are played as Germany (probably a lot, but not all). Then think about how many of them involved conquering Greece...I wouldn't be surprised to find that that hadn't happened at all, you know? Players do weird things that the devs can't predict.
 
I just love it when little dickweeds come on this board and bitch about a games they don't even own or play.... Fack me!!
 
Well I haven't bought HOI3 because I need a new computer first as the demo will only load up, it won't crawl let alone run. If I had a new computer, I'd gladly be an unpaid beta tester, in fact I'd even pay extra to be a beta tester and get the game three months before it was ready for proper release.

However I do worry that new people might be put off HOI3 and Paradox games in general by this sort of practice. Some people may write off the game and Paradox and never patch it up at all, let alone go to the forum. Lets face it Paradox games are challenging enough to the newbie without bugs.

Now Paradox needs money and they produce games that are amazing in their depth, scope, originality and quality when they finally patched to standard. So I think Paradox should seriously consider charging to Beta and holding back their releases till they are really working well. Think what Microsoft do with their operating systems now, they include millions of people in their Beta development process. Microsoft don't charge but then Paradox provide a service to their niche market customers, while Microsoft are operating an extortion racket on their captive market.
 
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