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Grand Campaign, 1492-1516, As Bohemia.

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Originally posted by Johan:
Why?

Jylland is a great strategic position to keep for the French to.

1) Encircle Spanish Netherlands.
2) Put a scare on the Danish with a garrison there, which can take Köpenhamn easily.
3) No danish fleets can easily transport reinforcements to Picardy if they go to war.

Another French/Danish war is extremely likely, and by controlling Jylland they can focus the danes on defending their capital instead of reinforcing norway or picardy.
France can take back Picardy much easier in a second war.

/Johan
Click to expand...

Historically, Jylland (English: Jutland) was occupied by foreign powers a few times (Swedes and Prussians, I think). But each time, one or more regional powers stepped in forcing a peace which left Jylland in Danish hands.

The point of this political pressure was that the major powers (Russia & England specificially) were content with the Baltic Sea entrance being controlled by a minor nation. A more powerful nation controlling the Baltic would be a serious thorn in the eye of these major powers, and thus they prevented this happening. Historically, Denmark was kept alive to keep the Baltic open. If France occupies Jylland, this should provoke responses from the Hanseatic League, Russia, (possibly) Prussia and probably even Sweden. It would be (and I guess, this is also holds true in the game) extremely difficult to defend, as all reinforcements would have to arrive by sea, and with (presumed) English dominance in the North Sea, the French would be marooned in Jylland.

Could any beta testers please elaborate on how easy it is hold a province with which you have no land-link? Is this difficult? It should be, in my humble opinion...

BTW: I'm a Dane and hail from southern Jylland (Sønderjylland) - so maybe I'm biased, but I can't see Jylland falling into enemy hands... it just wouldn't happen. It is about as likely as the French occupying the English midlands...
 
Yes, it was the Swedes whom occopied the whole of Denmark except Copenhagen. It was so well defended that the Swedes lost thousands of men, while the Danish defence lost about 12 soldiers and 50 civilians. It's just a story without comparecy! It was here the Danish king said the famous words: 'I will die in my nest' nest which was Copenhagen, he refused to flee. The Prussians then in 1864 occopied a big part of Jutland, up to Limfjorden, and when the Danish capitulated they took the ground (provinces :)) up to Gudenåen, which cut Jutland in two halves.

I think you a mistaking about Denmark being a minor power. You forget the enourmous navy we had! We kept the mighty Swedes in bay! Then there was the time which I've mentioned before, they took all of Denmark, except Copenhagen, by walking over Øresund because it was frozen! Our navy could nothing do, cos it was frozen in in the ports! Also, later we had royal marriages all over Europe, which made it highly unlikely that we would be attacked, but we did get attacked in 1864 :( although the British were very close to support us in the war, because of the royal ties. But the British queens related husband was of Prussian origin, and she loved him very much. So it turned out bad for us......

C4

P.S There may be many misspellings, don't bother about them.

------------------
*says like a chicken*

[This message has been edited by King Christian IV (edited 13-09-2000).]
 
Could any beta testers please elaborate on how easy it is hold a province with which you have no land-link? Is this difficult? It should be, in my humble opinion...
Click to expand...
Of course it is harder, just for a matter of logistics. And you need an army just for oneprovince whereas in your home countries you do not need an army in each province.
Reinforcements will come slower than the enemy's, etc.

I can't see Jylland falling into enemy hands... it just wouldn't happen. It is about as likely as the French occupying the English midlands...
Click to expand...
Just that it didn't happen doesn't mean it couldn't happen, heh ? :D
 
Hmm, interresting move I must say, but I think it could have happend in real history (during the the era depicted in the game). The main interrest of the trading powers of the time in the area around the North Sea and the Baltic, was to ether control the entrance to the Baltic themself or have it divide between as many as possible, so Jutland for one country, Seeland another and Skåne a third, would have been something they would have love. What the danes would have done, proberbly fight even harder to get back Jutland, than we did with Skåne, which we dreamed of retaking atleast until after the Napolion War (some still dream those dreams:)). I see alot of Jutland wars coming up.
 
Originally posted by King Christian IV:
.. Then there was the time which I've mentioned before, they took all of Denmark, except Copenhagen, by walking over Øresund because it was frozen!
Click to expand...

Not the Sund, Charles X and the Swedes crossed the Belt (do not know if thats the right english name) both the big and the little.

The Sewdish army was of fighting in Poland and Denamrk toke the opportuninte to declare war. And the Swedes hit Denmark from the south and crossed from Jutland to Fyn and Sjaeland. The rest of the story is much the same from swedish view as the one you told. No big problem to occupy the rest of Denmark except Copenhagen but Copenhagen was impossible.


[This message has been edited by Janbalk (edited 14-09-2000).]
 
Originally posted by King Christian IV:
I think he means that either Denmark goes or nothing goes! I think we would rather risk all of Denmark, to save Jutland!
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Why? We lost Skåne in southern Sweden and that area was considered at least the equal in importance as Jutland by the danish kings at that time.

It might be unlikely that we would lose Jutland (due to the excellent reasons given by Peder P) but not impossible.

kdp
 
yeh, but still. They talked Danish over there, not with the Swedish accent, and Skåne was at times forgotten! I still thin kthat Jylland was more worth than Skåne, esspecially when you think of how many people lived there! I don't know, it's like so many wants to keep the krone just because we've had it for some time, and thats wthat they are used toooooooooooooo...........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz damn im tired, gotta go sleep, c ya!
 
Originally posted by Janbalk:
The Sewdish army was of fighting in Poland and Denamrk toke the opportuninte to declare war. And the Swedes hit Denmark from the south and crossed from Jutland to Fyn and Sjaeland. The rest of the story is much the same from swedish view as the one you told.
Click to expand...

The story is the same in Denmark. The reason for the declaration of war was that with the Swedish armies in Poland it was believed it would be easy taking back the lost land in southern Sweden.

Besides, it was never expected that the fighting would start almost immediately. It came as a rather large shock for the danish king that the swedish army arrived so early from the south (wasn't expected until after the winter).

kdp

[This message has been edited by kdp (edited 14-09-2000).]
 
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