Seems like you edited that post. I'd be interested to see what sfluggaenkdechioebolsenwagner has to say. Were you Napoleon Bonaparte or Stanley Poniatowski?
France over nerfed?
- Thread starter Paladin395
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You have to understand that as poland you piss of russia simply by existing. If Poland lives Russia has to focus on expanding eastwards as soon as possible in order to avoid anyone else getting to china. If there is no Poland Russia can reasonably expect to expand as far west as Lithuania and the Baltics without getting too much opposition from neighbours (except Prussia maybe). So from the get go you have one enemy as Poland.
And that is the point. You could not kill hansa due to my diplomacy. Austria would have prevented it and even if you somehow bought austria off I made sure to have very favourable relations with France, who would probably have protected it against polish aggression in exchange for a few concessions.
You took wallachia during your first war against Hungary, so it was even before you pissed off lama.
Here is what i would have done in your situation: NAP out austria in exchange for bohemia without silesia and Breslau, who go to you. Make some deals with Hansa which allow them to form prussia. NAP out the OE in exchange for the Crimea and one Moldavian Province. Now you kill off Russia while they are at war with the AI'ed Russian Princedom. After that you establish yourselvf in the Lands you now freed rom player control and join the empire. Westernize and with the strong eastern cav and good tech fight either the OE or austria. Not that hard and you would still have been a strong power.
You did loose the war because the OE had no interest in fighting a very decent Austria without hoping to get anything, since you probably did not even have the decency to offer him wallachia and croatia or sth. like that.
So what? You had better landtech, but that lead would not last long. As soon as Austria gets its trade up he will soar somewhere around 1.8k Income, something Poland will never be able to reach. PERIOD.
Bohemia WONT beat poland if: Poland manages to expand and survive the initial horde-attack and keep the PU with lith and Bohemia loses the HRE (i no way a given). Any other way they will lose due to worse tech and worse provinces.
So you just see what you want to see, not what actualy happens.
allready posted my suggestions above, but you have to go away from your singleplayer mentality, Bohemia is rightful part of Austria in MP and thats it. France killing off Austria will eventually come back to bite him, since either he will get gangbanged for having to much power or enabled a super-OE or super-Russia. The balance of power matters.
This event allready exists, and yes, I agree, it should be more common for a france in a bad position, but sadly it still wont solve their problem since they will just end up getting gangbanged anyway.
France is too easily "Balkanized", in my experience. All it takes to neutralize France is one war, complete victory required. Now, beating France in a war isn't exactly easy. But it isn't too difficult to wait for an opportune moment. Once you've occupied all of their land, force them to release nations. It's possible for France to recover from this in about a century, but just as likely the minor parts of France become their own nations ruling several provinces a piece. Or another power expands into the area.
AI France doesn't seem to make use of Promote Cultural Unity. Maybe their diplo-annex missions could remove non-French cores, making it much more difficult to implode France like this. It's simply too effective.
AI France doesn't seem to make use of Promote Cultural Unity. Maybe their diplo-annex missions could remove non-French cores, making it much more difficult to implode France like this. It's simply too effective.
Well i know that. But remember that at that game i was VERY friendly to russia. Even let him live when he took smolensk. Also, actualy he did lost war against golden horde, which actualy he did not get killed only because i allowed(if i would say i am against, i think mod would have to agree on that) mod to edit him.
France? Yeah, i am sure it could have great time, trying to take down some polish armies, in HRE, gaining LOT of atrition. Question, who were you in the game?
Well, which only gave me card to trade it with ottomans. I even offered wallachia AND croatia to him, but he only sad he want budjak for HELPING me, which i agreed on. But he betrayed me for unknown reason(he sad reason was some of my talk, in he thought i threaten him, which was NOT my point, but i just think he just was seeking for excuse)
So actualy he could gain BOTH budjak AND croatia, and possibly even wallachia. But he decided to screw me, despite it... suppose he just felt i would be too strong.
Or maybe i am a bad diplomat, and he realy would help me otherwise, but this would just prove my plan WAS good.
Well, which was my plan. Totaly. I did made a nap with Austria. I only attacked austria when he took bohemia, but i white peaced him anyway(was my revenge for doing the same when i wanted to take silesia). But if i would made to LT 10, at the same time or, earlier than austria, i could just attack him, when i would gather strong enough army without westernizing. Anyway, i did made all you said. Except the russia part, but he was never threat to me, actualy if not OE and mod, he would be dead. He only managed to defeat me with great help of OE.
Also, i am still noob at MP, and doing such thing like attacking OE, i may do sometimes. Just didn't saw his land tech. And that he is actualy not being at any war that would prevent him from fighting well.
Oh, yeah i did? But no, i didn't only because you say so?
Well, only thing i needed to get to LT 10. Then i would just dow him, before he would start getting such big income, and just dissovle his ass.
Well i see what happens. But i said you why this happens. Never saw this happen in IN, unless poland was beaten by me.
Actualy NOT. I did offered austria white peace for him leaving me bohemia. And bohemia is not rightfull part of Austria in MP. Rightfull part of austria is aquilea etc. I anyway made all i could to keep him in check. Cause my plan was to PU bohemia from the beggining. And i just allowed him to take croatia for this, but i think it was BAD idea(should have not do it - i should kill all of hungarian rebels, to get better relations with them, and then claim what is mine). My enemy cause my plans was allways austria. Actualy wanted him to be at peace with me, for exchange for lausitz. And his austria was particulary weak (only 60k troops - and I could built 60 k army plus my allies troops - and my problem was that actualy i was to hasty, i should have waited some time, and then strike him with full force.)
If i wouldn't be so hasty, i WOULD kill austria. EVEN WITHOUT THE LT10, or other player help, even with novgorod on my back.
It does? Well then, i suppose they are getting not enough troops... could you link me to that event?
EDIT: But about our personal disscussion.
My vassals before silesian subjugation war were :
Pommeriana
Brandenburg
Teutonic order
Moldavia
Wallachia
Riga
Ragusa
+ Pu's
Lithuania
Hungary(OPM)
Transylvania(over hungary)
While Austria got Bavaria, and bunch of OPM's as vassals and croatia.
If i would make my forces to the limit, and not get them dead so quickly, i would certainly kill him off. Just because of pure force. And actualy i think i could build up 100k army, if i would not care about economy so much.
So, yes, it was my failure, but plan was certainly good. Just i did not made it well.
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Am I the only one raising an eyebrow when I heard a Poland player boasting about being able to wipe out a Hansa player? To me, it sounds just like France bragging about having eaten Alsace. :/
So what ultimately happened in the game? Was Poland defeated by OE and Austria and the player rq?
So what ultimately happened in the game? Was Poland defeated by OE and Austria and the player rq?
No ragequiting. Unless Lama ragequited.
And, actualy only two of my neighbours could defeat me, austria(but i mention you it was because he destroyed my armies, when i didn't thought he will attack - otherwise he would just have no chances in that war, and would be ultimately defeated), and ottomans, for obvious reasons(he having 100k of better troops, and mamluks in PU...).
So it is not much of bragging, it more of showing my frustration, because i was allied to hansa, which cowardlesly betrayed me anyway, not that i cared much(actualy i saw him as target for next vassalization(after he betrayed me - otherwise i would not even care about it). Still, after that happened, I leaved haensatic league, and joined novgorodian one.
Nope. ottomans only wanted budjak. During that war novgorod just dowed me, and i agreed to give him smolensk. Later on, when i was in another war with austria, he decided that he will dow me, and i just decided to WP with austria, and screw him up(took 3 province in the end).
With austria, it was not so easy, as he wanted me to release silesia, pommeriana and meissen, but i offered him, that i will leave bohemia to him, and release brandenburg, pommeriana and meissen instead. It might look that i lost, but my aim, was to take silesia. I lost three other vassals, but strategicaly, silesia is much more important than the other ones(Gate to bohemia, which makes it pretty important when fighting austria).
And you need to know one. I never ragequit in such situations. Because i am stubborn. My overall plans changed, and I just decided that i need to screw up austria.
My starting plans, were just to :
Take bohemia
Take hungary
Inherit lithuania(and sell some of its provinces to russia for peace)
Vassalize TO(and take danzig and warmia)
Take Crimea(For black sea ports)
The fact i took wallachia, was just because it annoyed me, joining war against me, and because it gave me income, this is same reason why i took meissen.
And i took pommeriana, because i think it should be part of poland, as so brandenburg. But it was not my plan too much.
Well about france, i think they are not much so nerfed, as just their enemies are too strong for them. And they get owned by emperor too often.
I play with Lucky Nations on all the time. Unless I deliberately try to take something from France, it usually just beats down everything (although it can still die from stupidity of combat A.I.).
But personally, I usually prefer Burgundy to win, since it's far scarier than France or Bohemia if it blobs.
By the way, how do MP games work? You guys play at speed 2? I played only two game with a few RL friends, so the experience is likely different to the forum games people play here.
Well speed 2 or 3. 2 if at war, 3 at peace. Also, IMHO you just need to be very good at SP, to play decent in MP.
You are asking to be criticized by your German pal. Playing a decent SP game is likely very different to playing a decent MP game, because there are lots of tricks human players can use that an A.I. player cannot. For instance your humans can deliberately ally the Pope and DoW you to get you excommunicated and thus breaking your lovely PU's. Human players gang up a dominant power if they feel threatened.
But anyhow, I am thinking of trying an amateur section some time as a minor colonizer just to get a feel of how MP tactics are used. What keeps me back, though, is how long they usually take and the number of sessions they last.
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Well we can make a contest, me vs you. You take austria, me poland. I doubt you beat me. Not say it is impossible.
This might also be a good training.
To Stnikolauswagne:
Actualy nick, i don't see you in the stats, so i think you did not played that game. So don't play so smartass.
Will go into more detail later on, but please dont get so offensive, I was subbing Kapt. Torbjorn AKA Hansa in that game and only did not go into any sort of expansion spree because i did not know if he wanted to go for asia or for prussia.
Some small details (currently in university, cant write much):
Iwanow is right, as much as it pains me to say, in order to be succesfull at MP you pretty much need to have mastered SP (not that he did, theres plenty of stuff he does wrong, like not knowing you cant attack nations you are allied with)
Poland vs. Austria from the get go is not a fair deathmatch, so stop suggesting it.
Iwanow, your plans for the game dont matter, you have to be actually able to enforce those claims. Its not like everyone would just allow a poland that was able to form prussia and get ultra-powerful so eventually you would have get cut down to size.
You can still answer call to arms against them, if that's what he's referring to.
And also, what Ivanov said is different to what you've said. He asserted: Decent at SP -> Decent at MP. And you said: Decent at MP -> Decent at SP. Your first year university comp sci course probably taught you their theoretical difference.
TBH, I haven't played a single game as a HRE major (i.e. Brandenburg, Austria, Bohemia, Bavaria, etc), so I can't really comment on the start. I also have never played Poland, France, or any of the big players except England and Aragon.
Well, Lama himself said after this war, that i should have won that war, but i screwed it up(which i did, losing whole my army, because i did not thought that war was for real).
And if you played hansa, then you didn't saw much. Because if i am right, you played in the second session. Before that session, i lost 45k men army, and still was able to occupy half of austria despite that fact.
Also i was able to enforce those claims, with austria having 46k army, plus his very weak vassals and PU's. In army size at the beggining of the war, i was definitely winning(and if i would won that war, it would cripple austria greatly). Most of the lose on my side, was managing the armies, as i lost all my troops. But certainly i got power, to enforce my claims.
And i do know that you can't attack nation you are allied with, but you forget 2 things :
1. You can just cancel the alliance
2. You can get called to the war against ally.
And my plans were never to form some prussia. LOL...
Actualy Poland vs Austria is pretty fair. Atb, both are not HRE, and both can beat eachother.
Also, i don't think that poland owning bohemia would be ultra-powerfull. Not much more powerfull than Austria, owning half empire as vassals with plenty of rich land in empire etc. Also i don't know if france cared much about the poland-austrian war. Not much more than Ottomans. I think both of those, just wanted us to fight eachother and destroy ourselves. But i doubt that france could do anything, or england, if i would win the war. Maybe ottomans, but i doubt they realy cared about it.
If i would won that war, i would not gain much power, more like, austria would get badly crippled. Novgorod, in such situation could only watch and fear, england could do nothing, france would have to pass whole HRE to even fight me. Ottomans could try beating me, and getting something out of me, but he could fear he would lose.