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"Then I suppose attempting to carry on a simply debate on our navy is also idiocy? There are many other that share my ideas on the expansion of the Reich's navy, as well as the continuation of the dreadnought program (even if at a slower rate), in favor of scrapping or stopping all major ship construction and instead turning to torpedo boats. In a battle with dreadnoughts - against the United Kingdom or even France or Russia - we must be on par with them in numbers and equipment in order to have a chance at success and victory.
Torpedo boats do not add to a nation's prestige. Dreadnoughts do.
Also, Herr Andersen, I suppose me coming up with a response is a sign of idiocy as well? So be it."
~ V. Chancellor von Weiss
No, in fact sir, it does not.
If it is so idiotic, then please, explain to our Kaiser why exactly it is. Otherwise, it can only be assumed that you lack a true argument.
The Kaisers secretary: Thank you for replying for the Kaiser Mr. Thauman.
Meanwhile the Kaiser looks a bit red. Also his eyes look quite a bit bigger then normal.
First of all I would like to convey my gratitude to the Chancellor for appointing me to the Imperial Ministry of Post. I commit myself to holding office at the upmost of my capacity and placing the post, telegraph and planning of the National Government at the service of the German people.
Regarding the issue of the navy, with out without colonies thankfully Germany has a global presence; at any given time there are thousands of Germans, and millions of marks in property distributed around the world. If there were a situation like the Boxer revolt of China again, how would be able to protect them if we didn't have a navy? We need a strong presence in blue waters. Obviously any naval expansion has to be made within reason, with no excessive expending or further antagonizing of the other powers.
A. R. Frahm, Minister of Post
Regarding the issue of the navy, with out without colonies thankfully Germany has a global presence; at any given time there are thousands of Germans, and millions of marks in property distributed around the world. If there were a situation like the Boxer revolt of China again, how would be able to protect them if we didn't have a navy? We need a strong presence in blue waters. Obviously any naval expansion has to be made within reason, with no excessive expending or further antagonizing of the other powers.
A. R. Frahm, Minister of Post
Now I would like to bring forward a matter that belongs to the core of what the Progressive People's Party stands for, that is the redrawing of the Reichstag's constituencies. While some of you may believe that this is all nuisance, this seemingly small matter affects the strength of German Democracy in a great deal.
The current electoral map dates back to the unification, and many has happened since: the industry and city have grown, while some rural areas remain stagnated; none can deny what has changed in 50 years, it only takes to compare the census data, public for all to see. This has resulted in the distortion of the representation of the German people; how can it be that a thriving city like Düsseldorf, to name an example, has almost 50% more inhabitants than Berlin but only has one seat while the capitol has 6? Is a Berliner's opinion six times more important than the former's?
However, this can easily be amended by the passing of an electoral reform by the Reichstag, I am quite sure that the members can see the necesity of it, and this can ease the public's demand for reform.
A. R. Frahm, Minister of Post
The current electoral map dates back to the unification, and many has happened since: the industry and city have grown, while some rural areas remain stagnated; none can deny what has changed in 50 years, it only takes to compare the census data, public for all to see. This has resulted in the distortion of the representation of the German people; how can it be that a thriving city like Düsseldorf, to name an example, has almost 50% more inhabitants than Berlin but only has one seat while the capitol has 6? Is a Berliner's opinion six times more important than the former's?
However, this can easily be amended by the passing of an electoral reform by the Reichstag, I am quite sure that the members can see the necesity of it, and this can ease the public's demand for reform.
A. R. Frahm, Minister of Post
In the matters of naval expansion, I find myself strongly in favour, and believe that although the Army must take priority, a strong navy is a necessity, not only for the defence of Germany, but also for her colonies and for her international prestige.
As for the composition of this navy, I do not believe we should follow the ramblings of an inexperienced and disrespectful Socialist. Whilst it is true, that Torpedo boats are needed, they cannot fulfil the role of Battleships, nor adequately challenge them. Therefore, I would suggest an expansion of the traditional surface fleet, with a view to quality over quantity, to save both cost, and capitalise on the short length of our coastline.
Furthermore, I advocate the construction of submarines, Torpedo boats and fast surface raiders, to facilitate the destruction of enemy supply lines and harassing of their coasts. Although I have no personal experience of naval warfare, save that gained against South East Asian tribes, but I must say that the value of fast, manoeuvrable forces is always high, no matter the field of conflict. These ships would be the Hussars and Lancers of the seas, striking the enemy close to home and disrupting his will and ability to fight indirectly.
As for the composition of this navy, I do not believe we should follow the ramblings of an inexperienced and disrespectful Socialist. Whilst it is true, that Torpedo boats are needed, they cannot fulfil the role of Battleships, nor adequately challenge them. Therefore, I would suggest an expansion of the traditional surface fleet, with a view to quality over quantity, to save both cost, and capitalise on the short length of our coastline.
Furthermore, I advocate the construction of submarines, Torpedo boats and fast surface raiders, to facilitate the destruction of enemy supply lines and harassing of their coasts. Although I have no personal experience of naval warfare, save that gained against South East Asian tribes, but I must say that the value of fast, manoeuvrable forces is always high, no matter the field of conflict. These ships would be the Hussars and Lancers of the seas, striking the enemy close to home and disrupting his will and ability to fight indirectly.
Naval Expansion provides numerous jobs for workers both in the Ship yards and in the Supply of Steel needed to produce the Ships as well as jobs in other Factories in the Supply chain needed to produce and Run a ship so overall large ship building is an easy for a government unwilling to intervene directly in an economy to help boost an economy.
As for the Primary arm of the Navy will mostly be dreadnoughts these Powerful vessels with well trained crews and keen eyed gunners will be able to match any British vessel afloat. However the Recent Innovation of Military Aircraft means that it may be possible to Mount aircraft on ships and use them to engage enemy ships beyond the range of traditional front Battleships and Dreadnoughts. In fact this idea is very much Plausible the American navy has already done experimental launches and Landings of Aircraft on naval vessels. If said aircraft were to be armed with Torpedoes mounted on the underside they could act effectively as Torpedo boats in the sky. Although this Idea in the short term is impractical due to the limited ability of current aircraft it should be considered for the Future the possibility of developing such vessels to act as the Heart of a Fleet formation.
As for the Primary arm of the Navy will mostly be dreadnoughts these Powerful vessels with well trained crews and keen eyed gunners will be able to match any British vessel afloat. However the Recent Innovation of Military Aircraft means that it may be possible to Mount aircraft on ships and use them to engage enemy ships beyond the range of traditional front Battleships and Dreadnoughts. In fact this idea is very much Plausible the American navy has already done experimental launches and Landings of Aircraft on naval vessels. If said aircraft were to be armed with Torpedoes mounted on the underside they could act effectively as Torpedo boats in the sky. Although this Idea in the short term is impractical due to the limited ability of current aircraft it should be considered for the Future the possibility of developing such vessels to act as the Heart of a Fleet formation.
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By these comments, you show not only your lack of military knowledge, but also a complete lack of diplomatic tact. I would suggest that you retract them immediately.
You wish me to Withdraw comments which support your view Point Doesn't that seem a little Strange. I supporting Building Dreadnoughts as the Centre of the Navy isn't that what you want.
Sir, I advise that you withdraw your comments immediately, before they damage both your own standing, and that of this nation.
Herr Schmidt, as chancellor, I request that you withdraw remarks that might seem inflammatory towards other nations. We are here to debate the merits of such policies, not incite war.
Reinhart von und zu Birkenfeld, Chancellor of the German Empire
Reinhart von und zu Birkenfeld, Chancellor of the German Empire
I have withdrawn some of the more Dubious comments but the Central issue remains. Dreadnoughts will form a vital part of our current fleet but as Aircraft technology advances it would be prudent to invest in the possibility of Some kind of Aircraft carrier If only to prevent our enemies using aircraft against our own fleets.
OOC: Since there are no orders or whatsoever, i duess things are done as things happen. Fry did say he'd throw a budget in here for us to kill each other over.
IC:
I request that some members of the Reichstag refrain and withdraw any sort of comment that is openly belligerent against a foreign nation, such as like the British Empire. Arguing so openly about what type of vessel is best suited to disrupt British sailing can be read as an insult and invitation to war.
A. R. Frahm, Minister of Post
IC:
I request that some members of the Reichstag refrain and withdraw any sort of comment that is openly belligerent against a foreign nation, such as like the British Empire. Arguing so openly about what type of vessel is best suited to disrupt British sailing can be read as an insult and invitation to war.
A. R. Frahm, Minister of Post
OOC: Aircraft aren't armed at the moment. In fact, they haven't even gotten to the stage of throwing bricks at each other yet.
An idea nearly as idiotic as the idea of socialism itself. Even the best of our military aircraft cannot best a cannon in delivering any amount of explosives to the enemy, so how can we put something as large and heavy as a torpedo on one? Perhaps we should add wings, an engine and a suicidal pilot to a torpedo, and tell him to fly into the biggest boat he can see? We must develop a modern navy, which can effectively challenge any possible oppressors and defend the shores of Germany and her possessions against possible landings or blockades.
OOC:Actually An Italian has dropped 4 grenades onto a Turkish camp already. Anyway I'm being highly Prophetic and Looking to the Future
My party member is right. Our current aircraft do not carry any form of armament, they do not have the ability to cope with anything as heavy as a torpedo.
OOC: That's funny, because I just had a dream in which I saw Oppenheimer and co create the A-Bomb. I think perhaps I should advocate the creation of these.
Also, I had another dream and saw the invention of the tank. I also now advocate a strong armoured corps.
OOC: That's funny, because I just had a dream in which I saw Oppenheimer and co create the A-Bomb. I think perhaps I should advocate the creation of these.
Also, I had another dream and saw the invention of the tank. I also now advocate a strong armoured corps.
It is inevitable that new technologies will change the battlefield. The Machine gun is only 50 years old and has drastically changed the ways wars are fought. We should not react to the development of new technologies in new countries but instead develop our own new technologies If we are willing to put the required time and effort into these possible if seemingly unlikely ideas we may find ourselves with a sizeable technological advantage over our enemies which will lead to far easier victories than we could otherwise expect. If our Aircraft were to gain more powerful engines the idea of placing armaments on them would not be so ridiculous. Once this technological gap is bridged then that opens up yet more possibilities. Germans have always been an innovative people we should go forth and look for new technologies which give us an edge in any future conflict if only to reduce losses to our side.