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Bertouch

Bertouch

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Feb 15, 2007
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I'm finding getting them to show up when in my court rather arbitrary. Got a courtier who does appear if I want to use her as spymaster (mediocre, at best), but a different one, a really sensational possibility for chancellor, doesn't appear, there. In fact, no women do. Why is that? I could understand women not being in the running for court chaplain (sad, but that was the way it was), but chancellor...?
 
Can be modded. Found it in another thread--file in the common subdirectory. Sets logic for each of the five council positions to female = no; and very easily changed.
 
JRHINDO said:
This should be modded to allow women on more court positions.
Click to expand...
We're modelling medieval society here. Feminist movements didn't exist yet.

It makes sense that the Queen Mother can be spymistress, but is there precedent for women in other positions? I don't mean as an exception, either; it has to have been done often to warrant allowing all women into the position always in CK2.
 
Bertouch said:
Can be modded. Found it in another thread--file in the common subdirectory. Sets logic for each of the five council positions to female = no; and very easily changed.
Click to expand...

If you just change it to "yes" then ONLY females will be able to be selected. What you have to do is DELETE that whole line of script from each council office. What this leads to though is an exploit of in realm males marrying the best female council members outside and all over the place and you end up pretty much with a council of females anyways. The AI just does not do a check when being asked for irrelevant marriage proposals from courtiers of other realms and will give up its BEST council members easily and redily and fast. In the demo I was able to get 21's and 22's in every council office this way except Bishop as I will not tolerate a female as a religious leader in those times. So, it's really best not to change it unless you can stifle yourself from exploiting the fact that the AI will practically let you marry anyone into your realm with great stats.

Also just a note if you do have a female in a council position the game ICONS on the map DO NOT represent it. You get MALES as icons on every council position. I find this appaulling and unreasonable. How much harder or longer would it have taken to make female icons?
 
Personally I like it the way the game does it.

In real medieval europe most women where seen as weaker (in all ways) than men and only useful for being baby machines.
The only women who had real power where women of nobility and then still they where more often than not second class nobles compared to their male family members.

A women in control of diplomacy or the taxes was close to heresy in the eyes of the church and extremely frowned upon.
This game implements that and the only spot a woman can take (only nobles) are the position of spymaster. (Probably the motivation for that is because a spymaster is a hidden spot on a council and only purely a one on one relation between Liege and Spymaster with no one else knowing that there is a spymaster.)


And besides, if you would edit it so that every woman can take any council position the game would become piss easy very quick. You can marry off all your family members to women with 25+ skill and turn your council into an amazonian beast machine.
Now that woman can't take any position you at least get the strategy of having to educate the boys in the dynasty to become great at diplo/martial/steward/learning etc.


IMO, the system works as it is.


EDIT: Aulus hit the nail right on its head.
 
MasterofMagic said:
If you just change it to "yes" then ONLY females will be able to be selected. What you have to do is DELETE that whole line of script from each council office.
Click to expand...

A colon before the line works just as well.

What this leads to though is an exploit of in realm males marrying the best female council members outside and all over the place and you end up pretty much with a council of females anyways.
Click to expand...

Not unless you delete or employ a colon to negate that line in five separate places, for each position. Did you check the file?

The AI just does not do a check when being asked for irrelevant marriage proposals from courtiers of other realms and will give up its BEST council members easily and redily and fast.
Click to expand...

I have definitely not found this to be the case. I went through literally more than 20 potential candidates of the same religion, with more or less favorable opinions of my court, and even some that wanted a particular position, before I found one who would emigrate.

In the demo I was able to get 21's and 22's in every council office this way except Bishop as I will not tolerate a female as a religious leader in those times. So, it's really best not to change it unless you can stifle yourself from exploiting the fact that the AI will practically let you marry anyone into your realm with great stats.
Click to expand...

The AI nations gobble them up, too. And like I noted above, they really don't jump a lot. But this is very late beta I'm playing, so it's possible this exploit was noted and removed. Making it easier wasn't my goal. Rather, having access to female chancellors and stewards, which the AI now has, too. And it's got some good ones. ;)

Also just a note if you do have a female in a council position the game ICONS on the map DO NOT represent it. You get MALES as icons on every council position. I find this appaulling and unreasonable. How much harder or longer would it have taken to make female icons?
Click to expand...

I've got a female chancellor right now, and her icon displays in that spot. Or am I misunderstanding you?
 
Last edited:
deknegt said:
Personally I like it the way the game does it.

In real medieval europe most women where seen as weaker (in all ways) than men and only useful for being baby machines.
The only women who had real power where women of nobility and then still they where more often than not second class nobles compared to their male family members.

A women in control of diplomacy or the taxes was close to heresy in the eyes of the church and extremely frowned upon.
This game implements that and the only spot a woman can take (only nobles) are the position of spymaster. (Probably the motivation for that is because a spymaster is a hidden spot on a council and only purely a one on one relation between Liege and Spymaster with no one else knowing that there is a spymaster.)


And besides, if you would edit it so that every woman can take any council position the game would become piss easy very quick. You can marry off all your family members to women with 25+ skill and turn your council into an amazonian beast machine.
Now that woman can't take any position you at least get the strategy of having to educate the boys in the dynasty to become great at diplo/martial/steward/learning etc.


IMO, the system works as it is.


EDIT: Aulus hit the nail right on its head.
Click to expand...

While I agree with you and Aulus about "historical values" I do appreciate that the game allows OPTIONS as everyone doesn't play the same as everyone else and everyone likes options and being able to play the game their way. Thus "house rules" and "made up rules" like we used to do in Monopoly and Risk etc. ;)
 
Aulus said:
We're modelling medieval society here. Feminist movements didn't exist yet.

It makes sense that the Queen Mother can be spymistress, but is there precedent for women in other positions? I don't mean as an exception, either; it has to have been done often to warrant allowing all women into the position always in CK2.
Click to expand...
Sure not the marshal, but how about mothers as stewards? Mother's regency much? And why not send the old queen as a diplomat or sumthing?
(Also by modding the world will not be restrained to medieval times or Europe and the Mediterranean)
 
JRHINDO said:
Sure not the marshal, but how about mothers as stewards? Mother's regency much? And why not send the old queen as a diplomat or sumthing?
(Also by modding the world will not be restrained to medieval times or Europe and the Mediterranean)
Click to expand...

Mothers as stewards and chancellors were rare, but not unheard of at that time. Some of the strongest rulers were in fact female regents, who also usually performed their own diplomacy.

Besides, this is a strategy game. If it were really to mirror the state of the times we would have to taken into account hundreds of exchange rates on bouillon, the Hansa, trade networks, Salic and non-Salic laws, etc. So I agree with you, we can set these things as we will--each to their own.
 
Well, it could also be determined by the gender laws. So if you're true-cognatic, you can set females in those positions (save chaplain). Anyway, it's so easy to mod, I guess everyne could have it their own way ;)
 
Well for my purposes I wanted females to be able to be Marshalls because I want a Joan of Arc character in that position. So, I can let her lead my wars, win me lands and then burn her at the stake. ;) muahahahahaha
 
Opera said:
Well, it could also be determined by the gender laws. So if you're true-cognatic, you can set females in those positions (save chaplain). Anyway, it's so easy to mod, I guess everyne could have it their own way ;)
Click to expand...

I like this idea. If you're okay with a queen running the whole country, why would you have an issue with a female holding the realm's purse strings.

But be prepared for a bankrupt though fashionable country with a woman in both those positions

/duck for cover
 
Other than mods, are there any other means to put women in councils? Heard having the Cathar religion can put females in the council. Anything else in a legit way?

Bonus point if you can find legit ways in a vanilla CK2. Other than that, DLC's with this feature work too.
 
The game rule allows you to set gender equality, which allows women and men to hold all positions equally.

You can also pass Status of Women laws which progressively open up more and more positions to women. :)
 
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