Does the "Only External Vassal Wars" Law Work as Advertised?
- Thread starter marceror
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I have an assumption to run by a 3000+ hour player, if you're so inclined to respond. Regarding crown laws, the way I observe this to work is that crown laws ONLY apply to direct vassal, not skip level vassals within the realm of their direct liege. In other words, as the Roman Emperor I might have crown laws set so that vassals cannot declare war on one another. So for all of my direct vassals who's lands are under my crown law, this is the in effect (potential bugs not withstanding).
My vassal, the Despot of Bulgaria, however, might have his own crown laws set so that HIS direct vassals can declare war on each other. They can fight each other all day long within Bulgaria. But, should the Duke of Moesia, vassal of the Despot of Bulgaria, want to attack a vassal the Despot of Serbia (Serbia being under Roman Crown Law), he will be prevented from doing so due to Roman crown law.
That indeed seems to be the way that it works, but I can't say that I've ever seen this articulated anywhere in any detail so would appreciate a sanity check from someone who knows the game well.
Crown Laws are *supposed* to filter down, so they cover everyone down to Baron level. Only one set of Crown Laws can be active in one holding at one time, you see. HOWEVER, it's not currently working properly.
Crown laws affect everyone inside the de jure borders. The only time a crown law doesn't affect a de jure empire county is when they are controlled by an independent Kingdom (of whom is de jure). So lets say Bulgaria is de jure ERE, Bulgaria is independent. The crown laws in de jure Bulgaria are the laws of Bulgaria and not the ERE. If Bulgaria is a vassal of ERE then they are subject to the Crown laws of the ERE.
The only time your crown laws affect a province outside your de jure borders is when you control it and the de jure kingdom/empire is not created. If you control a province of an independent kingdom/empire, their laws are in effect not yours.
Vassal de jure kingdoms, should use your crown laws. Non-de jure will use theirs.
Hmm, I do see vassals changing their crown laws. I'll have to pay closer attention to ensure that it is only those vassals who are not subject to their liege's crown laws, because based on your comment it should only be those vassals that bother with a crown law of any sort.
Thanks for the response.
Thanks for the response.
Just verified that a vassal changed their crown law related to vassal wars while under Roman Crown Law. So, if these vassals are subject to Roman crown law, it doesn't seem to make sense that they would need to change their own crown laws, as based on Dracko81's explanation those laws would serve no purpose. Or perhaps they set the laws in the event that they become independent? I dunno. This is one of those things about CK2 that I wish were presented more clearly.
Vassal kings have always been able to change their crown laws - human player can't for reference. But the AI is still required to follow the laws of their de jure overlord and can not circumvent it.
And this is exactly why it's not a clear, logical presentation on the part of PDX. Why allow vassal kings to set laws that have no gameplay impact? Especially when the player in the same situation is not allowed to do likewise. I'm inclined to trust your observations on this, and will keep a closer eye on for my own verification purposes.
By the way look at the tool tip on crown laws, they affect the de facto empire now not the de jure
So as the warning says: I realize this thread is really old, but I get the feeling it still isn’t fixed. I was the Byzantine Empire, I was Hellenic and I always forbid all Vassal wars, even external ones, as I don’t want my Vassals to blob. You keep the lands I give you and for the rest you get nothing. Everything were viceroyalities, at some point I had to make Kingdom Viceroyalties, due to going over Vassal limit. Now whenever I got them back, I saw their crown laws were changed, usually to allowing external wars or in some cases even internal wars. What I also saw is these wars occurring, e.g. The Viceroy of Africa trying (and failing to conquer Cyrenaica), that Viceroy also took a province from another kingdom to the West. The Viceroy of Anatolia conquered some provinces as well and the Viceroy of Italy took Carinthia and a county in Bavaria.. my point is that it is really annoying. I deliberately set all Vassal Wars to illegal, all my dukes were abiding by it, I give a duke a Viceroyalty of Sicily, he conquers the duchy of Sicily (outside our realm at the time) and he makes it into a merchant republic, which I can’t revoke by the way.. in other words, the AI completely ruins the game by not abiding by my Empires Crown laws. Eventually my whole game ended (after reforming Hellenism, almost conquering everything to reform the Roman Empire (save Jerusalem and Antioch) and claiming Alexander’s Bloodline), because of the Black Plague and Imperial succession, causing me to lose the empire (and retaking it several times), only for seeing all my dynasty dieing in random events (like losing their hand in the sparring ring and getting an infection) or just dropping dead in battle at the ripe old age of 36..
Anyhow, is there anything different in my game which allowed them to wage external and internal wars withing kingdom viceroyalties OR is it still broken?
Anyhow, is there anything different in my game which allowed them to wage external and internal wars withing kingdom viceroyalties OR is it still broken?