Lol. Only funny to those actually bound by these rules probably... made me laugh for sure though!
Discipline - What is it for?
- Thread starter Mulla
- Start date
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Lol. Only funny to those actually bound by these rules probably... made me laugh for sure though!
I'd guess that it's only limited by the number of modifiers you can get. So if you're Prussia with German Military Reforms, Napoleonic Warfare, Militia act, etc. it can get really high. (More than 150%?)
I'd say atleast 141 for generic country (NI, quality + militia act) and more for those with nation specific decisions. Probably little more, as there's bound to be some other decisions/events for better discipline...
Abolute monarchy gives +5% discipline too.
+ 25 from NI (or is it 20 ?)
+ 20 from prussian military reform decision
+ 6 from militia act decision (or +5 ??)
+ 10 from full quality slider
+ 1 per advisor star (+18 with 3*6 advisors ??)
+ 5 from absolute monarchy
= 184% disipline
is there something more ?
+ 25 from NI (or is it 20 ?)
+ 20 from prussian military reform decision
+ 6 from militia act decision (or +5 ??)
+ 10 from full quality slider
+ 1 per advisor star (+18 with 3*6 advisors ??)
+ 5 from absolute monarchy
= 184% disipline
is there something more ?
100% base,
+ 25 from NI
+ 20 from prussian military reform decision
+ 6 from militia act decision
+ 10 from full quality slider
+ 2 per advisor star (+36 with 3*6 star advisor)
+ 5 from absolute monarchy
+ 5 from Swedish steel
= 207% discipline
+ 25 from NI
+ 20 from prussian military reform decision
+ 6 from militia act decision
+ 10 from full quality slider
+ 2 per advisor star (+36 with 3*6 star advisor)
+ 5 from absolute monarchy
+ 5 from Swedish steel
= 207% discipline
I did reasearch from almost 50-60 tests, and formula for the battle are exactly as I wrote in your military faq post in your signature Kanitatlan.
Discipline simple is a modifier to losses which you inflict the enemy.
The formula is totaly different from your formula as of 3.2beta.
Discipline simple is a modifier to losses which you inflict the enemy.
The formula is totaly different from your formula as of 3.2beta.
You also forgot the temporary modifier that a lv 6 commandant can give (known throughout the nation/beyond our borders),
commandant_boost = {
discipline = 0.1
icon = 7
So so far as I know, you can only have one modifier like that at a time, giving usu an insanly unlikely max of 217% discipline.
Now the lowest possible discipline.
- 10 from Quantity slider
- 10 from bad discipline event
- 8 from decreased military funding event
Total 72% discipline
Is this really as low as it goes?
Discipline and Morale
Honestly, if the current system does not tie discipline to morale in battles, I think it should definitely change to do so in the next patch. Wider changes would most likely have to wait until whenever EU4 or any other game utilizing the discipline concept is released.
The broad fact that I have a problem with is that the majority of units have similar (about 100%) discipline. This utterly fails, in my opinion, to take into account the impact of veteran armies. In its current form, EU3 only offers military benefits to warmongering nations in the form of leadership, offering better generals. However, veteran soldiers are non-existent. I seriously doubt that anyone would disagree with me that veteran soldiers would (and still do) maintain innumerable advantages over freshly stood-up regiments. Currently, EU3 has it take mere months of "morale-building" in some peaceful province for a newly formed regiment to enjoy the same combat prowess as a regiment engaged in decades of near-constant battle around the world.
A system for veteran regiments has already been programmed by Paradox and utilized in HoI2. Unfortunately, this is (as far as I know) completely independent of the discipline system; the simple fact is that veteran regiments are absolutely of higher discipline than green regiments. While I know little about computer programming, my guess would be that it might be applied to EU3 via patch, but would require an EU4 of sorts to receive the necessary man-hours of Paradox programmers.
I believe a second problem with discipline might be easier to fix in patch form. That is tying discipline to morale. The discipline of units was readily visible on battlefields. Tighter formations, sharper maneuvers, and incredibly efficient redeployments of formations (ie, column to line) are all marks of a disciplined unit. Not only do such units have greater killing power, they also enjoy a substantially higher esprit-de-corps (higher, more durable morale) and instill much greater fear in their opponents, even veteran opponents (far more sapping of enemy morale).
In the spirit of self-criticism, I will freely admit the possibility that the higher kill counts of disciplined units may already reduce morale greater than an un-disciplined unit in EU3's present iteration. The problem is, I feel the differences between nations' discipline are laughably small. Perhaps not so much between some European nations (notably German, Brit, and French troops), but definitely between Europeans and everyone else. Tech level 40 nations fighting tech level 10 nations should also enjoy massive discipline disparities when fighting each other. Infantry with swords and bows--no matter how experienced--will rarely maintain discipline against musket, cannon, and horse. Discipline should also be tied to land-tech.
Honestly, if the current system does not tie discipline to morale in battles, I think it should definitely change to do so in the next patch. Wider changes would most likely have to wait until whenever EU4 or any other game utilizing the discipline concept is released.
The broad fact that I have a problem with is that the majority of units have similar (about 100%) discipline. This utterly fails, in my opinion, to take into account the impact of veteran armies. In its current form, EU3 only offers military benefits to warmongering nations in the form of leadership, offering better generals. However, veteran soldiers are non-existent. I seriously doubt that anyone would disagree with me that veteran soldiers would (and still do) maintain innumerable advantages over freshly stood-up regiments. Currently, EU3 has it take mere months of "morale-building" in some peaceful province for a newly formed regiment to enjoy the same combat prowess as a regiment engaged in decades of near-constant battle around the world.
A system for veteran regiments has already been programmed by Paradox and utilized in HoI2. Unfortunately, this is (as far as I know) completely independent of the discipline system; the simple fact is that veteran regiments are absolutely of higher discipline than green regiments. While I know little about computer programming, my guess would be that it might be applied to EU3 via patch, but would require an EU4 of sorts to receive the necessary man-hours of Paradox programmers.
I believe a second problem with discipline might be easier to fix in patch form. That is tying discipline to morale. The discipline of units was readily visible on battlefields. Tighter formations, sharper maneuvers, and incredibly efficient redeployments of formations (ie, column to line) are all marks of a disciplined unit. Not only do such units have greater killing power, they also enjoy a substantially higher esprit-de-corps (higher, more durable morale) and instill much greater fear in their opponents, even veteran opponents (far more sapping of enemy morale).
In the spirit of self-criticism, I will freely admit the possibility that the higher kill counts of disciplined units may already reduce morale greater than an un-disciplined unit in EU3's present iteration. The problem is, I feel the differences between nations' discipline are laughably small. Perhaps not so much between some European nations (notably German, Brit, and French troops), but definitely between Europeans and everyone else. Tech level 40 nations fighting tech level 10 nations should also enjoy massive discipline disparities when fighting each other. Infantry with swords and bows--no matter how experienced--will rarely maintain discipline against musket, cannon, and horse. Discipline should also be tied to land-tech.
To tell honestly, I hate all country formations, and all country specific national decisions, like Prussian military reforms. It doesn't make sense that Teutonic order, which in 1399- 1409 was strongest power in the area, is destined to become Prussia and get crazy 20% to discipline. I understand bonus if game is started in whatever century when Prussia was already that good in military. But projecting Prussia from 1399.. Silly..
More on topic: discipline is one of the best modifiers there is. Even something like 106% discipline helps a lot in a fight with 100% disciplined army. It is because by damaging your enemy more, you make sure he is damaging your troops less every subsequent day- snowballing from very little in the first day of battle to greater difference every subsequent day.
More on topic: discipline is one of the best modifiers there is. Even something like 106% discipline helps a lot in a fight with 100% disciplined army. It is because by damaging your enemy more, you make sure he is damaging your troops less every subsequent day- snowballing from very little in the first day of battle to greater difference every subsequent day.
To be fair, the Teutons can't form Prussia until Protestantism has been founded. And you can't get the military reforms until land tech 30, and you have to have 50% tradition.
I want to see the kinds of battles that can be won with an 18-stat general and 217% discipline :rofl:
I'm testing this out...
The advisors may not be possible to get easily though..
I'll try the Hiring Fair mod and see if it makes it less impossible..