Development Diary #20 - National Focus

[Snaake]

...
Will this be what influences them most? Will other factors have an influence? Eg. the money they do/don't have? Money they hope to earn? Available jobs?

I think it'll be an important factor, but I doubt you'll get mass immigration to a province with no jobs even with it (which would be undesireable anyway, you'd end up with loads of unemployed poor people there => MIL problems). A state that's already getting immigration and has plenty of jobs to fill should benefit the most.

I was wondering whether the Americas will still have a hard-coded bonus, and while I hope they don't, they should be able to benefit from lots of immigration (I don't want germans moving to India en masse, if India has good and profitable jobs). Then I realised that with the province traits of climate and terrain, there now exists a tool to steer POPs to emigrate to provinces similar to their homelands. Finns and Swedes would find Michigan and Minnesota etc. more attractive than people from other cultures would, and Spaniards might be more willing to migrate to warmer California and Florida, as well as South and Central America. If this isn't in the release, I'd certainly be interested in modding it in (if promotion logic will be in text files, I don't see why migration logic shouldn't be).

The main thing is that this would guide immigration and the major colonies historically: South America, South Africa, and Australia would attain statehood easier and be more developed, whereas the tropical jungles and deserts would see much much less European immigration, and for India, it'd be easier to encourage a locate bureaucracy than try to get Brits to move there.

 

[King]

In regards to the colonial skirmishes you said earlier that attrition would decimate huge stacks of hundreds of thousands of troops to prevent the ridiculous numbers from Vicky 1 in Africa etc...Does this mean life rating or some other game mechanic will create much larger attrition then in say London or Paris? Even if these provinces are owned by your empire?

Unowned provinces, which are the provinces you are claiming of course have higher attrition than owned ones. Plus it doesn't matter how many troops you actually stack in the state. The only requirement is that you have at least one unit in one of the provinces of the state.

 

[Snaake]

I was just thinking that some governments did push harder for assimiliation than other. Prussia actively attempting to assimiliate their jewish population comes to mind. Of course in the context of Vicky II this is an act of secularization rather than cultural assimilation. I'm also pretty sure Denmark attempted to promote Danish culture in Slesvig-Holstein before it was lost to Prussia.

A cultural imperialism / assimilation focus isn't all that far fetched I my mind. Though it should not just be an intergration bonus, but also increase minority militancy and consciousness since forcing culture on someone does seem to breed resentment.

I'm thinking that besides some sort of base assimilation trickle (everything happens gradually now), if you encourage POP promotion, and the POPs that are promoting include non-national ones, some part of them would retain their culture while promoting, but some of them would adopt mainstream customs, language etc. and basically assimilate as part of the promotion process. So promotion could also have a small assimilation effect (maybe under certain citizenship laws only), while you'd still be unable to force assimilation directly.

That's assuming non-national POPs promote at all, which I think they'd have to, for you to be able to have a colonial bureaucracy or colonial troops (for starters). Citizenship policy of the ruling party could limit which POPs non-nationals can promote to, making promotion national focuses more efficient under more liberal policies.

I'd love to have a residence or limited citizenship party ruling, and put focus on promotion to craftsmen for industrialisation, which would also speed up the assimilation of all the various immigrant minorities into Yankee culture (for example).

 

[King]

Following on from this, can you tell us whether exactly migration/immigration will be solely dependent upon having national focus set to migration/immigration?

Therefore, what I am trying to ask you is whether pops will go to Province X because national focus is set to Y?

Will this be what influences them most? Will other factors have an influence? Eg. the money they do/don't have? Money they hope to earn? Available jobs?

Lots of other factors influence which job a POP will select and where they will go. Thus national focus cannot get your Poor POPs promoting to bureaucrats if you are taxing them to death. All it can do is supply another nudge to promotion. Thus if you set your country up right, then national focus is a means to get you there faster.

 

[noddysseus]

A lot of people who emmigrated from European society did so in order to free themselves from the rigidity of life in Europe, in the hope that a new life in Africa, South America or North America would provide them with a more adventurous existence, as well as a less intrusive life from state government

I believe there should be some factor like such included in pops' decisions to migrate.

Lots of other factors influence which job a POP will select and where they will go. Thus national focus cannot get your Poor POPs promoting to bureaucrats if you are taxing them to death. All it can do is supply another nudge to promotion. Thus if you set your country up right, then national focus is a means to get you there faster.

Sounds good to me! All I wanted was re-assurance.

Can you at least allude to the above?

 

[Ex Mudder]

Well you can't turn them into states for a start. Without bureaucrats there, crime will run rampant and you won't get any taxation from them. There is also a cap on the number of POPs that can work in a RGO. So encouraging immigration to some states will only give you angry unemployed farmers.

Does this mean that the "you can turn colonies into states if they are on the same continent" is gone? As the US you could turn most everything in North America into a state as soon as you grabbed it. This sounds like you need to set your national focus to encourage immigration and wait for a while until you have sufficient POPs to grant statehood.

And will encourage immigration result in more overall immigration than otherwise, or will total immigration remain the same and much of it go where you want it too?

I take it you can no longer expand RGOs then?

 

[Ex Mudder]

Unowned provinces, which are the provinces you are claiming of course have higher attrition than owned ones. Plus it doesn't matter how many troops you actually stack in the state. The only requirement is that you have at least one unit in one of the provinces of the state.

It will be interesting how this effects the US claiming and colonizing places like Colorado, Okalahoma, and Oregon / Washinton in the game. Now there is a need for troops on the frontier, as it were.

Will some states have varied life ratings? Places like the Marianas and Tahiti needed to be partilly colonized early if you wanted the rest of the state.

 

[King]

Does this mean that the "you can turn colonies into states if they are on the same continent" is gone? As the US you could turn most everything in North America into a state as soon as you grabbed it. This sounds like you need to set your national focus to encourage immigration and wait for a while until you have sufficient POPs to grant statehood.

And will encourage immigration result in more overall immigration than otherwise, or will total immigration remain the same and much of it go where you want it too?

I take it you can no longer expand RGOs then?

The who reason why had the ability to turn colonies into states if they were on the same continent was becuase no one migrated into the interior of the USA. Now if they ain't migrating there it is because you did not give them enough encouragement.

No you cannot expand RGOs anymore, if all the land is beign farmed, then all the land is beign farmed.

 

[Cinéad IV]

This is an excellent idea. At last, a way for the USA to fill the Midwest! It'll also really nicely simulate the way colonies generally weren't profitable until a colonial bureaucracy was established, which means colonialism won't be a no-brainer anymore: if you're wanting chunks of Africa, you'll need to divert your National Focus from elsewhere to make it economically worthwhile.

One thing King - have you worked out a formula for how much colonial skirmishes will damage relations? Fashoda, for example, could have led to a war between France and Britain very, very quickly without good diplomacy on both sides.

Actually, come to think of it, is it best to have colonial troops fighting if they are in the same province? I'm hard pressed to think of two European powers actually fighting eachother over African colonies, even where there were conflicting claims. Maybe some sort of stand off situation would be better if two national armies sit in an unclaimed province, with a monthly penalty on relations for the duration of the standoff?

 

[telesien]

No you cannot expand RGOs anymore, if all the land is beign farmed, then all the land is beign farmed.

Awsome news. So this should also somehow represent the quality of given RGO, so we won't see great numbers of labourers in provinces that historically had only scarce deposit of iron/coal or whetever. Right?

 

[Taylor]

Dunno if this has been asked before, but I take that if you provoke enough skirmishes in unclaimed provinces, the AI will get fed up and declare war? E.g. if you're playing Denmark and you think "ah let's attack that single German unit in that unclaimed territory I want so badly", the German AI will consider going to war with you, right?

 

[Garuda]

I like this.

Will there be some sort of tool tip that gives you an idea of the effect that the focus is having or do you just place it and wait for something to happen?

 

[Garuda]

If you want to increase your chances of claiming a state you can send in troops, the presence of troops in a state will increase the amount your claim ticks up by. This might just give you the edge to beat some who already has a placed a claim in front of you.

I sense that empire building players might look to exploit this a lot?

If an AI nation has already begun its claim to a colony and the human player then decides to claim it too and sends troops - how likely is it that the AI might respond by sending their own troops?

 

[Capt. Kiwi]

A good feature, if it works. Which is a completely pointless, stupid thing to say, but it's what it all comes down too. The AI will have to be able to use this properly, the right nations will have to have the right amount of foci available at the right times, the effects will have to be just right... But I do look forward to seeing how you do. The idea is a good one, and we should be in for a most excellent game if it all comes together.

 

[Searry]

Most interesting. Sounds a lot more realistic!

 

[Aragos]

Awsome news. So this should also somehow represent the quality of given RGO, so we won't see great numbers of labourers in provinces that historically had only scarce deposit of iron/coal or whetever. Right?

My mouse-clicking finger thanks Johan and the gang. So, so tired of trying to upgrade every RGO in every province of the USA...

 

[King]

This is an excellent idea. At last, a way for the USA to fill the Midwest! It'll also really nicely simulate the way colonies generally weren't profitable until a colonial bureaucracy was established, which means colonialism won't be a no-brainer anymore: if you're wanting chunks of Africa, you'll need to divert your National Focus from elsewhere to make it economically worthwhile.

One thing King - have you worked out a formula for how much colonial skirmishes will damage relations? Fashoda, for example, could have led to a war between France and Britain very, very quickly without good diplomacy on both sides.

Actually, come to think of it, is it best to have colonial troops fighting if they are in the same province? I'm hard pressed to think of two European powers actually fighting eachother over African colonies, even where there were conflicting claims. Maybe some sort of stand off situation would be better if two national armies sit in an unclaimed province, with a monthly penalty on relations for the duration of the standoff?

There is no formula for damaging relations at this point in time. That will be a question for testing and balance.

You are absolutely 100% correct that there were no shooting wars over colonies during the period. However Victoria had a mechanic for it and that means that Victoria 2 must also have one too. After all we don't want you feeling short changed.

 

[208]

My mouse-clicking finger thanks Johan and the gang. So, so tired of trying to upgrade every RGO in every province of the USA...

Pff USA? Try China... :wacko:

 

[King]

Dunno if this has been asked before, but I take that if you provoke enough skirmishes in unclaimed provinces, the AI will get fed up and declare war? E.g. if you're playing Denmark and you think "ah let's attack that single German unit in that unclaimed territory I want so badly", the German AI will consider going to war with you, right?

We would rather have the AI be a bit cleverer than that to be honest. I mean the last thing we would want is the German AI to declare war on a Denmark who is allied to all the other 7 Great Powers over a minor colonial skirmish.

 

[King]

I like this.

Will there be some sort of tool tip that gives you an idea of the effect that the focus is having or do you just place it and wait for something to happen?

We will try our damndest to make the tool tips in the game informative as possible. So nothing is promised on precisely what the national tool tip will say, but we will try to give you as much useful information as possible.