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Development Diary #19 - Technology

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Victoria 2 17560 After Action Reports (AAR)
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unity100 said:
what about bringing the ingenuine hoi3 research system to victoria with some modifications ?
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Wouldn't work. HoI3's system is more geared towards post-WWI military research, which was funded and conducted by the military. Victoria doesn't focus on the military and is set in an era where most of the things were invented or discovered by individuals rather than were researched by and for the state; this is where the original tech system excellently fits the era and scope of the game.
 
I'd have preferred a more EU3-type research system, so you can immediately see the benefits of expansion-more money=more money to invest in science, hurrah!
Though the Vicky research system isn't bad by any means. I assume PI have addressed the RP build-up, though by the standards of other AARs this one is pretty lite on information. Also not a single dev has answered any questions :O
 
JoeGiavani said:
I'd have preferred a more EU3-type research system, so you can immediately see the benefits of expansion-more money=more money to invest in science, hurrah!
Though the Vicky research system isn't bad by any means. I assume PI have addressed the RP build-up, though by the standards of other AARs this one is pretty lite on information. Also not a single dev has answered any questions :O
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Weird. Tech is one of the few areas in which I clearly prefer Vicky to EU3...
 
Lord_Andrew said:
Well King is away, so i guess thats why there havent been answered any questions, as it is usualy him who does it.
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Yes, that's right. I don't have time at the moment to answer your questions. However I have taken the time to give the thread a quick read through and I'll give you some answers when I get back.
 
Aside from all the tech issues; did I really see Western Japan with less provinces? Were Nagaoka and Toyama merged into one Niigata?
Chiba and Yokohama are nice additions, though.
 
prevalcalifers said:
Aside from all the tech issues; did I really see Western Japan with less provinces? Were Nagaoka and Toyama merged into one Niigata?
Chiba and Yokohama are nice additions, though.
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Japan had a lot more provinces than it needed in Vic1. There almost never was any war on the Japanese islands... I always thought it would have been a better idea to add provinces in the US for example, where it is certain that there will be war.
 
JWSIII said:
Weird. Tech is one of the few areas in which I clearly prefer Vicky to EU3...
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You'd rather tech always advanced at the same speed, with all industrialised nations by the late nineteenth century instantly trading techs and waiting another 10 years for the next batch to become available?
 
diplomacy not tech system the problem

no, it was buggy to a degree if thats what you mean (but see below), I do however prefer two featurs significantly... one, that you actually discover somehting, not just "land 43, +.06 morale" type stuff, and second, that you discovered the tech and then had the psuedo random invention thing. It felt much more involved.

The problems you mention are mostly the result of a faulty *diplomacy* system, not a faulty tech system... fw countries could research everything at max speed if it wasn't for tech trading, leading to diffrent speeds, and certainly the tech trading itself was the result of a faulty diplomacy system, not technology system.
 
I'd like to see a mix of the EU3 and Vicky system, that is, having Research Points, but have them automatically be invested in one of the five categories, depending on the POP that generated those points. For example, Officers would contribute to Army and Navy, while Clergymen would contribute to Culture, Clerks to Commerce and Industry and Bureaucrats to Commerce and Culture.
 
Jawa said:
The randomness of the invention of the automobile and the aeroplane isn't completely random. It's hard to imagine any of these being invented in Tibet or in the heart of Africa. And that is not only because of low literacy. The need for any of the above is just not present in either places. Both inventions would however both find a need very quickly in the west. The demands where there allthough dormant.
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Really? There were people experimenting all over the world, many simply out of a passion for tinkering. So much so that no matter how you define flight, someone will be there to dispute who did it first.

Supply and demand will still affect how quickly the invention gets taken up afterwards through artisans and capitalists, but the initial invention could happen anywhere. Mean time to happen modifiers can be used too, where relevant - and they can do all sorts of cool things. I think the system is pretty good, for an abstraction.
 
Capt. Kiwi said:
Really? There were people experimenting all over the world, many simply out of a passion for tinkering. So much so that no matter how you define flight, someone will be there to dispute who did it first.

Supply and demand will still affect how quickly the invention gets taken up afterwards through artisans and capitalists, but the initial invention could happen anywhere. Mean time to happen modifiers can be used too, where relevant - and they can do all sorts of cool things. I think the system is pretty good, for an abstraction.
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I too think it is a great system. I would just like it to be even better. An island nation with tons of sea provinces should invent navy tech faster, one with lots of coal and iron should invent industry tech faster and so on and so forth. If it is as it was in Victoria I, landlocked Switzerland will be able to research naval tech just as fast as GB. That is wrong as they have no experience in naval tech to build their naval technology on.
The countries' situation both demographically and geographically - not just the literacy of a country - should play a part in the pace of research.

As I read it, mtth modifiers will only apply to inventions not techs, making it impossible or difficult to mod this into the tech system. Or am I mistaken?
 
JoeGiavani said:
I'd have preferred a more EU3-type research system, so you can immediately see the benefits of expansion-more money=more money to invest in science, hurrah!
Though the Vicky research system isn't bad by any means. I assume PI have addressed the RP build-up, though by the standards of other AARs this one is pretty lite on information. Also not a single dev has answered any questions :O
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I think EU series research system is one of the best ever made exactly because in it expansion only might result in more money, but definitely raise in technology investment costs meaning quite likely more difficult to advance technologically. In EU if you advance to fast to too poor areas, you will have hard time to keep up technologically. That is both historical and makes for nice gameplay.

Having recently started with HoI3 there is an additional aspect that is simple but intriguing: the more you build of a unit type the easier it is for you to advance technology in that same field.

Victoria 1 had a great innovation in the innovations. Victoria 2 can be very good already building upon those as explained in this development diary.

But finding a way to combine the best of Victoria 1, HoI3 and EU in a way that keeps it understandable to the player is my wet dream.
 
Jawa said:
I don't want it just to be an equation of pop demand. I just want it to play a part in the speed of research of any given tech.
The randomness of the invention of the automobile and the aeroplane isn't completely random. It's hard to imagine any of these being invented in Tibet or in the heart of Africa. And that is not only because of low literacy. The need for any of the above is just not present in either places. Both inventions would however both find a need very quickly in the west. The demands where there allthough dormant.

A new banking system isn't invented just for the fun of it, but because there is a need for improvement of the existing one. The state of the country should therefore also play a part in the speed of research.
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Well, the airplane was invented by a Brazilian (for a Paris fair admittedly), so... :)
 
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